"heroin" sold in Melbourne as "pure" (at a higher price)

[mostly-human]

Hi,

I really want to do my best to avoid breaking rules. If I do, my apologies and of course delete my thread. But I have some good reasons for wanting an answer to this (I'm not going into those, because they are not relevant).


From what I've heard, this stuff has been around for at least a decade. But the last 2 or so years it has been BOOMING with nearly all heroin dealers selling it. Although, I'll add a caveat - I've only ever gotten it from Viet dealers, but on the other hand, 90% of my dealers have been Viet.

So basically, the stuff is generally sold as "pure" and it costs quite a lot more than "regular" heroin. I can't give prices, but lets just say - 3 points of "pure" will generally cost about the same as a gram of "regular". Even at this price, the "pure" is MUCH better value.

In terms of effects - the initial 'rush' of the pure is less noticeable than regular heroin. However, it is MUCH more sedating and is extremely dangerous (a friend of mine gave a someone withe .5g/day heroin habit a 30mg shot of "pure" and they stopped breathing within about 5minutes, requiring CPR and Narcan.). The high is a LOT less euphoric than heroin - though still euphoric.

Now - everyone is probably rolling their eyes already going "fentenyl" you dummy. It's not fent - I know this for two reasons: A, it lasts a LOT longer than heroin and B) out of curiosity, I went to my 'done doctor and asked to be piss-tested to try and work out what it was - I came back clean for heroin and fent.

There must be other people in Melbourne who buy this "pure" "heroin" - I'm curious if A ) anyone actually KNOWS what it is - I'll require evidence or B ) if anyone has some good educated guesses, as well as the reasons for their guess and maybe some sources that I can look into.

Once again - I am asking because I've got some pretty good reasons to find out, that I'm not willing to share right here.

If it helps, it may relate to any recent big busts - because MULTIPLE suppliers (people who deal to low-level dealers) have upped their prices in the last couple weeks.

Also - I'm NOT a dealer. Personally - I don't hold anything against low-level dealers trying to keep their head above water, supporting their own habit. But anyone dealing above that level deserves a place in hell as far as I am concerned. I don't condone the low level dealing either - I think someone who's fucked their life with a H habit should know well-enough not to spread the suffering, but I can sympathise - a lot of H users also lie, cheat, steal, default on debts, etc..so...

 

[Drug Truth Aust]

This person would not have 'stopped breathing' due to any opioid they were given. If it was an opioid, they would have had another drug in their system (multiple-drug toxicity). They would have become heavily sedated and suffered airway obstruction. This is nothing to do with 'respiratory depression'.

 

[foorpefil]

No, opioids do cause respiratory depression and can cause you to stop breathing.
An overdose of GABA is what causes severe sedation with less respiratory depression.

 

[mostly-human]

This person would not have 'stopped breathing' due to any opioid they were given. If it was an opioid, they would have had another drug in their system (multiple-drug toxicity). They would have become heavily sedated and suffered airway obstruction. This is nothing to do with 'respiratory depression'.

What you're describing is classic with heroin; only about 5% of heroin ODs involve *only* heroin (sorry, I CBF linking the study, but it's a figure I read - it wasn't recent, I think it from the 90s heroin explosion, that's where most of the material you can find on Melbourne heroin comes from.)

So I get what you're saying, all the times I've actually stopped breathing and gone blue and needed CPR, Narcan and an ambo to keep on kicking, it's been due to xanax + heroin. These days my tolerance is so stupid that I can have not used xanax or any benzo in 6 months, then still shoot 3-4 grams of heroin + my methadone + 3 or 4 2mg xanax bars and 200mg diaz all together. When I first thought I had a *serious* habit that would have killed me a couple times over. Interesting a lot of this tolerance appears to have come from using this so-called 'pure'.


Also - Your comment is utterly pointless, unhelpful and at worst; dangerous because you can absolutely stop breathing from heroin alone and you've a naive idiot if you think otherwise. My date on my account here is my second bluelight account, my first was from '99. I've been around and I can promise I know a lot more than you do about heroin and opioids & opiates. But thanks for the fantastic input.


Also - try telling someone who just OD'd on fentenyl "Hey, don't worry bud - you can't stop breathing just from an opioid!" -seriously mate, don't comment about stuff you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[spacejunk]

Let's keep it civil thanks folks

 

[goldencircle]

There's definitely people out there selling "pure" heroin like this, not cheap by any standards, by the point , haven't done it myself, but a friend has and believes it to be worth it, has a massive tolerance and usually takes benzos and nearly a half g shot to get stoned, but half a pt of the so called pure stuff will do the job, and if it's anything like the "pure" on the darknet, then i'm not suprised, decided to order in a point and stupidly IVd the whole lot, don't recommend this this as it could have been the end of me, considering how many fentanyly analogues are out there, but this was 100% dope, the taste, the rush, etc, woke up in a pool of sweat,nauseau and confusion an hour later, so it's definitely out there, alongside with fentanyl

 

[chugs]

There are a ton of synthetic opioids out there. Different types of fentyal and such. Asian labs are putting out a ton of that crap and the dealers are gobbling it up because by weight its active at extremely low amounts thus meaning they only have to traffic a fraction of the weight they were trafficking before to get the same margin/effect.

The piss tests only look for morphine and 6-MAM which a unique metabolite of heroin. To test for a whole range of opioids you'll have to pay a heap more for the lab to do that work.

The problem of course is these opioids are not very euphoric. They're highly sedating and have a whole bunch of affects that are poorly unknown and understood. I can easily see stupid ass mid-level dealers mixing it with anti-histamines and such to give their packets weight not realising that people are booting several at a time

 

[mostly-human]

and such to give their packets weight not realising that people are booting several at a time

This sounds American. We don't use such language in Australia. We never say we have "several heroins". And you buy per weight, it always comes in one bag.

 

[chugs]

This sounds American. We don't use such language in Australia. We never say we have "several heroins". And you buy per weight, it always comes in one bag.

huh, who are ya saying is fucking yank ya cunt

1. people sell heroin in sorts of different ways. Some wrap em in foil and sell em in foil. Others sell them in paper packets. Others in baggies. Whatever.

2. Just to add to the argument about the people dying from heroin there is a huge problem about people who have absolutely no idea whatsoever about how opiate/opioid "overdoses" occur. You read a bunch of literature that claims that opiates depress breathing and bam, that's it, everyone who shots "heroin" is who has died is obviously dying from an "overdose".

The problem is there isn't a lot of testing of heroin on live patients and what its LD50 is. The bigger problem is be it in the US, Australia, Canada or the UK of the tens of thousands of people dying every month (across those countries) from "heroin overdoses" almost 99% of the people dying aren't actually subjected to a autopsy. And of cthose who are very few of them are actually properly investigated. A needle with a packet "heroin" found nearby, a quick & cheap reagent test and bam, its a heroin overdose with maybe fentanyl thrown in as the cause of death. Seriously the coroners do not invest much time, effort or money into finding a real cause of death....mainly because its extremely expensive.

It is extremely rare for the authorities to actually do a full scale work up of the drugs i.e. a series of Gas chromatography–mass spectrometry (GC-MS) tests, on both the drugs found on the user, and the drugs found in their body. Its rare to work out if the user was "opiate naive", whether they had enzymes (or lacked them) that may have made them either fast or slow Metabolisers of certain opiates.

Show me a single overdose in Sydney or Melbourne that had a full series of GC-MS tests done?

Now Fentanyl is i grant you pretty unique because of how extremely potent it is, by weight. Like 40,000 times more potent and there are even more potent versions (different isomers) of Fentanyl being sold on the darknet. I will accept you can overdose easily from Fentanyl and die but this however goes to the heart of my point. Heroin and morphine are extremely safe drugs.

Even in very high doses unlike Fentanyl.

The moment they become unsafe is when they're mixed with other substances. The worst being alcohol, benzodiazepines, barbiturates, antihistamines and a range of other anesthetics. Not to mention quinine. All of these substances are common cuts for heroin dealers.

When you mix opiates and opioids with these classes of drugs your almost certainly going to get some sort of adverse consequence. Its a bit of a misnomer to call them an overdose because you could be taking acceptable quantities of both drugs and yet still end up in respiratory distress. And therein lies the rub. In several studies that I read about overdoses it was found in most cases the deceased had taken their usual amount of heroin. They hadn't gone out and bought a couple of grams and booted it. They could hardly be called overdoses.

Anyway I direct you to Chapter 12. The "heroin overdose" mystery and other occupational hazards of addiction where you'll find that a study in New York almost fifty years ago found even after giving street heroin addicts unlimited amounts of pure heroin despite taking huge doses that they were still not doing anything worse but passing out (safely).

And its why in a palliative care setting that morphine and other opioids have a very wide safety margin......In fact, inappropriately high, toxic doses may cause agitation and distress rather than respiratory compromise. Hence why hospitals will often give patients access to self-administer morphine. This is why when people come onto message boards crying about pure heroin overdoses you only have to look at people who get pure opiates, in ridiculously large doses (palliative care) to see how just wrong they are.

Back to chapter 12 of the other link I pointed you to, back in the 1970s long before fentanyl came on to the scene a study into the large number of deaths subscribed to heroin overdose found the following:

"The majority of deaths," Dr. Baden told the AMA physicians, "are due to an acute reaction to the intravenous injection of the heroin-quinine-sugar mixture. This type of death is often referred to as an 'overdose,' which is a misnomer. Death is not due to a pharmacological overdose in the vast majority of cases." 31
At the same AMA committee meeting and at a meeting of the Medical Society of the County of New York, Dr. Baden cited six separate lines of evidence overturning the "heroin overdose" theory.
First, when the packets of heroin found near the bodies of dead addicts are examined, they do not differ from ordinary packets. "No qualitative or quantitative differences" are found. 32 This rules out the possibility that some incredibly stupid processor may have filled a bag with pure heroin instead of the usual adulterated mix.
Second, when the syringes used by addicts immediately before dying are examined, the mixture found in them does not contain more heroin than usual.
Third, when the urine of addicts allegedly dead of overdose is analyzed, there is no evidence of overdose.
Fourth, the tissues surrounding the site of the fatal injection show no signs of high heroin concentration.
Fifth, neophytes unaccustomed to heroin rather than addicts tolerant to opiates would be expected to be susceptible to death from overdose. But "almost all of those dying" of alleged overdose, Deputy Chief Medical Examiner Baden reported, "are long-term users."
Sixth, again according to Dr. Baden, "addicts often 'shoot' in a group, all using the same heroin supply, and rarely does more than one addict die at such a time." 33
These definitive refutations of the heroin overdose theory should, of course, have led to two prompt steps: a warning to addicts that something other than overdose is causing these hundreds of addict deaths annually--- and an intensive search for the true cause of the deaths. But neither of these steps has been taken. Hence the news media go right on talking about "heroin overdose" deaths. "Death from acute reaction to heroin overdose" and other complicated phrases are also used; these phrases similarly conceal the fact that these deaths are not due to overdose.
How can the "heroin overdose" myth not only survive but flourish even after these repeated scientific debunkings

 

[mostly-human]

That's all great, but I'm no too sure what it has to do with my thread??

 

[LittleTrees]

When heroin is synthesised for the Australian market it will be cut 1-1. It usually comes through China and Vietnam, after being harvested in Afghanistan or Mexico. In Melbourne dealers will buy "cakes" which are 120 ounces and that will be cut 1-1 again. This stuff is "pure" and will be sold to the last dealers who either sell it as uncut pure or cut it from ratios of 3-1 to 5-1 and this is "market" heroin that most street dealers sell.

 

[LittleTrees]

The "pure" stuff is about 25% and then cut from a ratio of 3,4 or 5 times to 1

 

[mostly-human]

The "pure" stuff is about 25% and then cut from a ratio of 3,4 or 5 times to 1

I'm sorry, but that doesn't even slightly align with known statistics on purity of market heroin in Australia. Look it up if you don't believe me, but our 'market' heroin is a lot stronger than you seem to think, with street deals in WA often approaching 40-50% pure.

 

[mostly-human]

Someone has fed you a line of bullshit, I'm assuming your dealer.

 

[Crankinit]

Yeahhh if it was cut that heavily, nobody would be willing to pay for it :/

My experience with H is more limited than my experience with pharms, but the stuff I was using right up before I stopped for good was nearly twice as strong as morphine pills - 70mg of the H would get me just as high as shooting 120mg of morphine. Even the more average stuff was at least in the range of being equipotent to pharmaceutical morphine, maybe give or take 15%.

 

[mostly-human]

Little known fact- in the Melbourne (not sure in rest of Aus) heroin epidemic of the 90s, the purity often topped 90% on street deals and 40-90% was the norm. But yeah - it's definitely a lot stronger than that poster thinks, there's literally lab test statistics on this.

 

[mostly-human]

Also the market is a lot more dynamic than that poster suggests. Not every dealer buys the same quantity, cuts the same amount, etc lol. That's cute, but clearly a fairy tale. Sure - the larger trade routes for the stuff are largely known and static. But once you zoom in, there's all kinds of shit going on and all kinds of deals and quantities!