baclofen as an aid for tapering clonazepam ?

[Kdem]

Does it make sense ? I can take clonazepam only once a day. (explanation is complicated)

I've seen talk about phenibut, which I know can be dangerous. But what about baclofen ? I know it acts on GABAB. It's not about cravings, but about the physical side of things.

 

[HeadHigh]

Baclofen has been a weird drug in my experience (same with phenibut, but with a little different effects). Sometimes i take baclofen hoping to be calmed down, and i get manic. Other times it works perfectly to calm me down. But nonetheless, if you have some in your possession, it couldnt hurt to try it out, but i dont see it working super well for the physical symptoms. Something with gabapentinoid action would probably be better, like gabapentin or pregabalin. Phenibut has slight gabapentinoid action, but its too addictive to use as a tapering aid.

 

[Solipsis]

Firstly, I would not start with phenibut.

Secondly, while baclofen has promise for treating alcoholism there is some evidence that GABAb plays a role in some behavioral effects of ethanol. I don't know of any such evidence for benzo's so you would be 'treating symptoms' which is basically just a way to delay withdrawal effects although you might temporarily cushion them. I don't think I would ever try to rely on it for withdrawals/tapering and substituting is not ever a recommended method for tapering afaik.

Treating actually dangerous physical symptoms like seizures is a different matter although careful tapering should make it possible to manage that. What do they normally use for that though? Anticonvulsants when acutely necessary?

If you can make it through the detox itself, I would look into flumazenil or better imidazenil for the PAWS if possible. A bit experimental but sounds good to me.

Remind me what are the physical problems you know to expect, are they not part of the regular benzo withdrawal syndrome and how do you know that?

Do you actually plan on tapering, have you tried it already or are you just fantasizing about the idea? I haven't really been in your other threads lately. It was quite an elaborate history of discussion and it would help to get context if you want to get a more thorough answer/discussion. It would help to know if anything came out of your research for proper diazepam replacements to taper etc / some relevant parts of the background. You had said that there were unusual sides to this dependency, that would matter a lot if you consider treating those with something or other like baclofen

 

[Kdem]

I´m tapering actually. Or what passes for tapering. I just seem to be so incredibly sensitized to the drug (possibly the drug itself) and possibly the phenomenon of stress itself. Central sensitization ? I´m not sure. Up to a point, it seems as if a certain opiate acts on the same receptor as clonazepam. I know that isn´t true ... I have these strange problems like muscle wasting ... And there is no treatment for kindling, right ?

It seems there is no alternative to clonazepam ... Diazepam is so, so different. I once got a major setback by a drug that acted as a muscarinic antagonist. I´m not sure why, except that physical dependence seems to be mediated via cholinergic neurons.

 

[Solipsis]

That the levels of stress would get ungodly high is still to be expected, for me it was insomnia (while I was also dealing with absence from work and the issues from that) which made it unrealistic for me to taper at home. It would at least help if there was someone to guide you through the process, a social worker, a GP aware of you withdrawing and the massive amount of literature that should prove the dangers and seriousness of it. A person who could administer it might be ideal, even if you don't like the person... so that you don't have to withstand the urge to relieve yourself of tapering steps.

Muscle wasting is to be expected from much inactivity, I participated in bootcamp when I was withdrawing, it was extremely hard to do on top of the withdrawals but helped a lot for the process. Hurts like hell but you need the physical reaction to that, the endorphins etc to get flowing again to offset the withdrawals.

For kindling, like I said: benzo antagonists - only when you're truly clean though! - are experimental but seem to work for part of the people / part of the problem. It doesn't seem responsible to recommend, but I might have looked into it when I was having PAWS.
Can be a nightmare but still IMO you ought to make a clear choice to wanna get better over getting worse. Getting better is promising though painful, getting worse always seems worse.

Very good that you're tapering - hang in there!

 

[Kdem]

There are some assumptions in there ... I´ve taken this drug for too many years, and I´m not young anymore.

The muscle wasting is not (primarily) due to inactivity. I don´t know why it happens, but it happens. Everything went to hell after I accepted that lorazepam.

Bootcamp ? I presume you know that muscles won´t grow without sufficient sleep ... Part of the problem may have been that I actually didn´t feel the exercise ! A not so benzo like benzodiazepine ...

Speaking of opiates (a different thread?) ... I´ve tried diazepam a couple of times. The very first time I took diazepam it would give me some initial euphoria. Just the first dose, any doses after that didn´t cause that effect. I wonder if that's endorphin-like.

 

[Tryptamite]

Sounds like u are experiencing opioid addictions effects on muscles. I know that when I have been strung out ibhave lost mass. And stress from benzo taper would be additive to this problem. Sorry I have nothing more productive to say. Best of luck

 

[JK25]

Does it make sense ? I can take clonazepam only once a day. (explanation is complicated)

I've seen talk about phenibut, which I know can be dangerous. But what about baclofen ? I know it acts on GABAB. It's not about cravings, but about the physical side of things.

Use Pregabalin. It induces neuralplasticity and also assists with the formation and restoration of dendrites, axions intra-neurons and have shown (according to recent studies) to even regenerate entire neurons.