TDS Help! Possible MDMA/weed after effects

[Rozi30]

Dear all,

I just found this site and decided to try my luck here.
I am struggling with some serious problems and I am quite confused....I would like to ask your opinion regarding my current issues, wheather they are caused by the MDMA use ,cannabis trip or simply having mental health problems. Here is my story. On the 27th of April I took one and a half blue extasy pills for a party. Everything went well, I had great time that night. Although, before the ride I was a bit of anxious (because of some family problems). I am not a one time user, I am rolling extasy for about 4 years now, casually. In the last time ususally I took extacy recreationally, every 2nd month generally. This year I used it in January, February and then April 17 and April 27th. So I can say that I used a bit more often this year. Anyway, I was feeling ok and usually the comedown was also fast, I slept well and in a few days I was totally recovered. I have to say that generally I am a sensitive, more anxious person. We took this last extasy trip with my boyfriend, we had the same amount, one and a half big pill (I think it was the blue diamond, but I am not sure). I have to mention that we also took from this pill before, but maybe a smaller ammount. We are buying the pills from safe source, so I think that we always took the real thing. (I live in Amsterdam, so quite safe I would say). For my boyfriend the comedown was normal as usually. For me the first 4 days were also good, I was feeling normal, like after a regular extasy comedown. On the 2nd of May I rolled a joint in the afternoon and I had a really bad panic attack. I am not sure if the joint caused it or not, but I have to say that on that day before I was also feeling a bit different. After the joint I felt something like depersonalisation. I felt like I was in a bubble, everything seemed vague and dreamlike. It was a really bad experience. In the past I had some similar experiences, about three times in my life, but those were only temporary, after smoking joint. Usually after the trip they were gone. Now this time I feel stuck. On the 2nd May, after the bad trip we had a bus to take to Berlin. (It was a planned trip). The 4 days we spent in Berlin were a nightmare to me. I usually love travelling, but this time I had anxiety all the time and one more panick attack one night. My head was blowing up, I had tinnitus, I was feeling dizzy and like I was not on this planet anymore. On the last night I could not sleep at all (!) and since then I fight with insomnia as well. Since then I had a month of terror, with weekly one or two not sleeping at all nights and over the day feeling scared and anxious. Some days are better, some days are worse. When I wake up I usually feel butterflies in my stomach as I think that I might have my symptons during the day and as the day passes I got really fed up with everything, and for the evening I am so nervous and my head is so full, that I am affraid that I can't sleep again. And which is even worse, that at some point every day I have some moments when I feel a bit depersonalized. I can control my fear now, but with this cloud in my mind effect is really hard to cope. Sometimes I think that I lose my control and I got scared of it. I also have some obbsessive-compulsive thoughts, that don't let me rest, but I am controlling that quite good. I went to the house doctor with my anxiety problems, he first thought that these effects were from the joint I rolled and prescribed me propranolol. That does not help me, only made my heart a bit slower. I went back after that and after seeing me desperate he gave me a few oxazepam pills. I took a half of them one night, but I don't want to become dependent on pills either, so I will only take it before the sleep if necessary. He referred me to a psychologist. I went once untill now, but that was only for a half an hour, and she adviced me to listen to mindfullnes music, do exercise etc. The next appointment is only on the 20th of June and I am quite nervous what will happen with me untill then. I can not concentrate, I am not interested in the activities I used to enjoy, and I am not cheerful anymore. I am not happy. I think I might become depressed. I think all the time of my condition. What do you think guys? What can I do untill I have the next appointment on the 20th of June? And how to cope with de brain fog episodes/depersonalization feelings? Those last usually only for few minutes, but they scare me a lot. I took in the first weeks magnezium, omega3 and multi vitamins, I bought also C vitamins and B vitamin complex. My house doctor told me to eat helathy and preferably not to take supplements. I am drinking Saint John's wort and valerian tea before sleeping.
Sorry for the long post, please let me know if you have any advise.
Greetings.

 

[Vazkor]

Hi there!
I'm also from Amsterdam. I also had exactly the same problems you describe.

You used xtc too often. There should be a minimum of 3 months between use.

If you stop using, your symptoms will lessen over time and disapppear entirely. This will take a few months (about 6 in my case, with similar usage).

Using weed in this period may cause a panic attack. Just remind yourself it's the effect of the xtc. Weed feels less good in this entire period.

Oxazepam helps a bit. Use every 3 days to get maximum effect from them. It's possible you get a bit depressed from them. When you feel already depressed from the xtc, the added depression from the oxazepam can be unpleasant. Not sleeping because of anxiety can be unpleasant too. Choose.

Supplements don't work. At lease not for me & I tried a lot of them.

What does work is physicsal exercise: go to the gym/go for a run. It's nasty when you're doing it, but you will feel better afterwards.
Sex also helps.

I do assume your used normal dosages. As in not more than 300 mg maximum in one night. If you used more than this, your symptoms might persist longer and have greater intensity.

If you use xtc again in the coming months, your symptoms will increase. I advise you not to do it for the rest of 2017. If you do this, your first use of xtc in 2018, might give you a few depressive months afterwards.

It will seem your symptoms will never end. At a certain point you will wake up and realise all your symptoms are gone.

Since you're not into mindfullness, maybe you like this better:
https://markmanson.net/stop-trying-to-be-happy

Don't ask yourself if you are having symptoms all the time. If you are constantly analyzing how you are feeling, your anxiety will increase. Just accept the way you are feeling and realise you won't always feel like that. It will pass.

Much luck,

Vazkor

 

[Rozi30]

Hi Vazkor,

Thank you so much for taking your time and write to me! Great to read your words, as a fellow Amsterdammer. I really appreciate it and it really really helps! I am happy to read that you recovered totally in six months period. It is good to know, that others have also experienced similar things and overcomed this condition. It gives me strength to go forward.

Although as I now see six months seem so long for me...I am still at the beginning of this recovery then, after a bit more than a month...I need a lot of patience, but I am positive.

Yes, I used xtc too often in a short period...Did not know about the 3 months between rule...I always used the normal dosage, not more than one pill a night or one and a half...I think that is not more than 300 mg...Of course, I have stopped with everything: no alcohol, no weed, no coffee and I don't want to even think of xtc. I will not do any of these untill I am not fully recovered...

Did your recovery was linear, meaning that with time you had less and less symptons, or was it like a rollercoaster? Sometimes more symptoms, sometimes less? At the moment at some point I feel I am ok and the next moment I am depressed and then again my head is blowing up, tinnitus etc.

Did you use one whole oxazepam in every three days? Or only a half? I try to sleep without using any pills. I had every week sleepless nights, and that is even worse the next day, so now if I feel that it is coming an anxious night, than might take a half of oxazepam.

I am doing now yoga in the morning and evening, I run or I make long walks every day and I listen to mindfullnes music and read motivational books. I am going to subscribe to the gym as well. How much exercise did you do back at the time?

This week I can concentrate more, so I do a lot more things than worrying. The last two days I slept good. Thank you for your link, I am reading the article right now. What other reads/books did they help you in this recovery period?

Your advices are really thoughtful and helpful. I try to keep them in mind. The hardest thing is not to analyze my symptons all the time. But I do my best.

If you don't mind, I might come back to you if I have more questions.

For now you helped me a lot.

Thanks and wish you all the best.

Greetings,
Rozi.

 

[herbavore]

Hi Rozi, I would like to also encourage you to simply remain drug-free for a while. Concentrate on the sources and patterns to your anxiety outside of drug use. Have you ever tried mindfulness meditations or conscious breathing to alleviate anxiety? I also am a naturally anxious person and I have found that learning new coping strategies from mindfulness training has really improved my relationship with my own thoughts.

 

[Rozi30]

Hi Herbavore,

Thank you for your reply.

Yes, I am doing yoga for a week now, every morning and evening. I also tried mindfulness meditation a few times, the last time it really helped. So I will be doing that as well.

Coping with my anxiety is getting better day by day. That is a good point to concentrate on my anxiety patterns outside the drug use. I might say that I have a lot of anxiety patterns to work on...

Can you maybe recommend me a specific mindfulness training?

Thank you a lot.

All the best,
Rozi

 

[Vazkor]

Sorry I didn't reply earlier. I was a bit busy.

The roller coaster will continue. Allthough even now you have moments you are not in it.
Those moments will increase in length. At a certain point the moments in the roller coaster will be indistinguishable from your normal anxiety.

Regarding mindfullness and since you're from amsterdam, maybe this is something for you: https://shambhala.nl/amsterdam/
They have an "open avond" (sorry, don't know correct translation) every monday.

It's a good thing you stopped all drugs. You'll heal (faster).

Vazkor

 

[Rozi30]

Hi Vazkor,

Thank you for your reply.

I think I am now in a depression. It became really hard to cope with this situation. Every second day I have problems with sleeping. I simply can not sleep. I am not afraid anymore of falling in sleep, but I just lie in the bed and simply can't sleep. My body is tired and still my mind fights sleep. I could sleep only a few hours today in the morning...I think if I could sleep more, I could heal faster...The day before yesterday I slept quite good, although during the night I wake up a few times and got also some nightmares... The tinnitus got better though...

When I don't sleep, it is quite hard to work the next day...So I am worrying a lot. How did you cope with your work back at the time you had problems?

I can cope much better with anxiety, I got used to it. But the fact that I am simply unable to be happy is getting me down. I think I need help in fighting this depression. The problem is that my house doctor probably does not know lot about these after drug use situations...And I don't know if taking anti depressants is a good idea at this point...I don't want to take them, but simply I find my life useless like this...I lost about 6 kg as well, although I eat healthy. I don't have much appetite though, so I eat smaller amounts of food.

Thank you for the link, I will definitely go to the open avond.

Greetings,
Rozi.

 

[herbavore]

Rozi, to be honest I feel like your emotions are not as much related to drug use as to your life in general. Most of us experience depressions as we move through life. They can be caused by so many things--old family issues, issues of identity, doing work that we prepared for and thought we wanted but turned out to be less than satisfying, loneliness, stress and the list goes on and on. My point is that when these emotional states occur there is usually a real reason. Though chronic depression is a real condition, it is not what most of us are dealing with. I would encourage you to try everything else before resorting to an antidepressant--they often make the problem worse, especially for young people.

Lack of sleep really exacerbates depression and anxiety. Read this about sleep hygeine.If you are already doing that you might try asking your doctor about a medication that is just for sleep. I use cannabis (an edible about 1 hour before bed) but I had tpo experiment to see what was the correct dose because if I take too much I wake groggy and not alert in the morning. Cannabis should be avoided if it increases your anxiety at all however. Some people have very good luck with valerian root tea but simply practicing good sleep habits and making any calming herbal tea at a set point before bedtime is a good habit.

Think of your life as your creation. How open are you to exploring and "pushing the envelope" of your own thoughts and expectations? How free do you feel to define yourself as opposed to being defined by family and peers? How do you think about yourself? Are you compassionate and forgiving as a good friend would be or are you judgmental? All of these questions are worth asking yourself at any given time in your life (I am 63 years old and I still find these questions useful!). Most of us do not grow up learning ways to be in charge of our own lives. We are taught how to be good consumers, we are taught more about human divisions than shared humanity, we are encouraged to listen to the authority of society over our own authentic self. Growing up and maturing through life should be an adventure!

P.S. When I was first introduced to mindfulness it was through a book by an American Buddhist nun named Pema Chodron. Someone gave me her book called, "When Things Fall Apart: Life Advice for Hard Times". At the time I was in crisis due to a devastating life event but my mind only knew one way to operate: in constant anxiety. This was no way to face the inevitable depression and deep grief. That book became a little Bible for me. I did not become a Buddhist, never adopted a meditation practice, but the plain and simple language of how to step outside my usual thought loops and enter a calm and observing space within my own head proved to be invaluable. Learning how to do this spawned even more progress as I learned to separate my emotions (authentic) from my thoughts engendered by those emotions (usually self-defeating). By doing this the 'negative' emotions (fear, anger, sadness, uncertainty) lost their negativity. It sounds like a trite cliché but learning to accept a whole new level of sadness in my life has allowed me to become a happier person; certainly a more appreciative person.

Lack of appetite, lack of sleep and lack of normal levels of enthusiasm for life are all indicative of a deep yearning in your body for your spirit/mind to heal something at a deeper level. This does not have to feel overwhelming or even daunting at all. Explore yourself, explore your life and everything around you. Make note of when you do feel happy, or at peace or untroubled and try to understand why and how. I think this is good place where you are right now because you are vulnerable and that is often when we are strongest.

 

[Vazkor]

I usually agree 100% with herbavore. Not this time, however. I'll explain by telling my story regarding xtc.

Some years ago I got divorced. It was a nasty divorce. I didn't see my kids as much as I wanted and it cost me a lot of money. This got me depressed. I was depressed for about one and half year.

Then things got better. I got more friends and more things to do. One of my friends introduced me (at 42 years old, 46 now) to partying and xtc. It was fun. It was too much fun...

Allthough I knew I should take xtc no more than every 3 months, I did it far more often. More like every month. I got depressed again. Thing was: there wasn't that much to feel depressed about. I was in tears over nothing.

I see it like this: when you take xtc, you are happy for a night. You do, however, pay a price for this: you are about 97% happy, after that night, for about 3 months. Then you are at 100% again. If you use more often, your general happiness goes lower and lower. After using monthly for about a year your general happiness might be at 50% (not very scientific numbers, but you get the idea).

Xtc causes your brain to be flooded with seratonine, so it shut down some receptors. Those receptors should be recreated. This will happen automaticely, if you refrain from using more xtc.

After 3 months most of my symptoms were gone. At 6 months they were totally gone. No more depression, just by stopping xtc use.

I think this will turn out the same way for rozi. I predict that, if she refrains from using xtc (and all other seratonine releasing drugs) for 6 months, she will feel the same as before she used xtc for the first time.


I must admit I'm a huge herbavore fan. I think she saved/improved countless lives just by typing her bluelight posts. Mine included.

Vazkor

 

[Vazkor]

Quote: When I don't sleep, it is quite hard to work the next day...So I am worrying a lot. How did you cope with your work back at the time you had problems?

How did I cope? Poorly.

What did help?
Well... if you have visitors in your house. And you don't want them to stay, because you don't like them all that much... Don't serve them tea.
It works a bit the same with negative thoughts. If you have one and give it much attention (tea), the thought will stay, get bigger, etc...
So, next time you notice you pay far too much attention to a negative thought, say to yourself "no tea" and go on with the next thought.
It helps... a bit. Still does...

Remind yourself that your current state is temporary. The biggest improvements you'll see in the second and third month. It's just the price you pay for using too much xtc. If this has passed you will be a better & wiser person.

I wish you all the best and hope all your symptoms will disappear quickly.

Vazkor

 

[herbavore]

I usually agree 100% with herbavore. Not this time, however. I'll explain by telling my story regarding xtc.

Some years ago I got divorced. It was a nasty divorce. I didn't see my kids as much as I wanted and it cost me a lot of money. This got me depressed. I was depressed for about one and half year.

Then things got better. I got more friends and more things to do. One of my friends introduced me (at 42 years old, 46 now) to partying and xtc. It was fun. It was too much fun...

Allthough I knew I should take xtc no more than every 3 months, I did it far more often. More like every month. I got depressed again. Thing was: there wasn't that much to feel depressed about. I was in tears over nothing.

I see it like this: when you take xtc, you are happy for a night. You do, however, pay a price for this: you are about 97% happy, after that night, for about 3 months. Then you are at 100% again. If you use more often, your general happiness goes lower and lower. After using monthly for about a year your general happiness might be at 50% (not very scientific numbers, but you get the idea).

Xtc causes your brain to be flooded with seratonine, so it shut down some receptors. Those receptors should be recreated. This will happen automaticely, if you refrain from using more xtc.

After 3 months most of my symptoms were gone. At 6 months they were totally gone. No more depression, just by stopping xtc use.

I think this will turn out the same way for rozi. I predict that, if she refrains from using xtc (and all other seratonine releasing drugs) for 6 months, she will feel the same as before she used xtc for the first time.

Thank you for your perspective (which is based on experience) while mine is based on conjecture. Sometimes my lack of experience with certain drugs shows!

I must admit I'm a huge herbavore fan. I think she saved/improved countless lives just by typing her bluelight posts. Mine included.

And thank you for the faith in me despite my ignorance sometimes.

Vazkor[/QUOTE]

 

[Rozi30]

Dear Herbavore,

I can not thank you enough for your advices. As I read it yesterday morning, it gave me strength for the whole day and I read it again and again and gives me positive energy.

Yesterday I started to practice how to step outside my usual thoght loops and enter a more observing, calm space within my own head. I can say it that doing this I can separate now my emotions from my thoughts engendered by those emotions. It certainly helped yesterday, I hope I can do it further day by day.

I have ordered the book yesterday and it will arrive soon. Can't wait to read it.

You have right when you say that I might have some issues that my mind/spirit would like to heal...I know those issues and I think I am on a right path to heal, but as Vazkor said, there is probably also an added after effect of the xtc use... I have some old family issues that I was struggling before and a lack of confidence as well, but my current life is actually satisfying, so I don't see me having depression only because of those issues... (I am 30 years old, women, I think I did not mention this untill now).

The weekend was horrible I must say, but yesterday and today seem more positive. Although the sleep problem still exists (yesterday I slept only 3 hours), I feel better today. I do my best for my sleep hygiene, I have a night time routine, herbal tea before sleep, exercise during the day, no eating after 19.00. Still some days a week I can't fall in sleep... I am falling a bit in sleep actually, but then I have a dream (nightmare) and I wake up. After that I am not sleepy anymore, so I just stare the walls and wait untill about 3.00 am when I finally sleep a bit...

I went to the house doctor and he will do some blood tests, just to make sure there is no physical harm... That will make me a bit releived as well...

Thank you for your wise words, they are really a lifesaver!!! �� You two, together with Vazkor rock!!!

All the best,
Rozi.

 

[Rozi30]

Hi Vazkor,

Thank you for your descriptive and detailed explanation about your xtc use. It gives me more insight in how things went in my case too...

After party and party I forgot to think logically and I did not pay attention on the small signs my body was giving... I see those now, if I look back. But now it is time to look further and take it day by day with positivity... Which is hard at times, it was really hard this past weekend, but yesterday and today seem better.

My biggest issue, beside the depression (which wasn't so bad yesterday and today) is the lack of sleep. One day I hardly sleep, the next day I sleep...

I constantly remind myself that it is going to be better and reading your posts again and again also gives me strength.

You two (together with Herbavore) are my best advicers right now. You give me strenth and hope.

Thank you.
All the best,
Rozi.

 

[Erikmen]

When I don't sleep, it is quite hard to work the next day...So I am worrying a lot. How did you cope with your work back at the time you had problems?

What did help?
Well... if you have visitors in your house. And you don't want them to stay, because you don't like them all that much... Don't serve them tea.
It works a bit the same with negative thoughts. If you have one and give it much attention (tea), the thought will stay, get bigger, etc...
So, next time you notice you pay far too much attention to a negative thought, say to yourself "no tea" and go on with the next thought.
It helps... a bit. Still does...

Remind yourself that your current state is temporary. The biggest improvements you'll see in the second and third month. It's just the price you pay for using too much xtc. If this has passed you will be a better & wiser person.

I wish you all the best and hope all your symptoms will disappear quickly.

Vazkor

Quite true, indeed!

Thanks for sharing Vazkor. It can really be helpful hearing to your perspective as herbavore pointed out. Specially if you are having issues with insomnia chronically.

 

[herbavore]

I'm so glad to hear that you are feeling a bit more positive. I have been dealing with nightmares lately myself and they are no fun!

Let me know what you think of the book when it arrives.

 

[Rozi30]

Update about my recovery:

Dear Herbavore and Vazkor,

It's been almost two months since my problems begin. After my last letter, which was written on the 13th of June, I can say that things are getting better.

I sleep finally every day, although it is quite hard to fall in sleep. It takes about one hour to fall asleep, but after that I really sleep. I am so gratefull for this. Every morning I thank the Universe that I have slept.

I made a really good routine, with everyday exercise or running or walking plus yoga and mindfulness meditation. Those really help.

I got the Pema Chodron book and I have to say that I really enjoy reading it. I practice meditation now and it helps me see what's going on with my thoughts and emotions. I am learning also to let them go. This is the hardest part. Also the words of Pema helped me open my eyes and see things in a different perspective: that feelings like anger, fear, disappointment and irritation are not bad news, but they are very clear moments that show us where we exactly are stuck.

About my persisting symptoms: I am still depressed at times of the day, I got moments when I still feel hopeless and low. But I can control my feelings and thoughts much better and I can calm myself down. I contemplate a lot about my life, but I am much more positive, than ten days earlier for example. My anxiety is under control now, although it is still higher than it used to be at my normal self. When I have negative thoughts, I always say to myself that I won't serve them with tea and I think of something else. I am living in the present now and I take everything day by day. I have to say that I do have days when I am almost back to normal, and that makes me relieved.

Thank you again for your advices, those really helped.

Greetings,
Rozi.

 

[Vazkor]

Great to hear!

Nice of you to post this too. This will help other people with the same problem.

Wishing you luck & love,

Vazkor