Recovering from 3 years of DXM Abuse

[RecoveringDude]

Hi.

So as the title says, I'm recovering from 3 years of DXM use (usually lower doses of 356 mgs and 700mg at most.)
I'm focusing on supplements and exercise to hopefully repair any long term damage in my brain, I've overdosed three times on DXM and do think I have some kind of brain damage, I feel (more) schizophenric, bipolar then I was before I used. I developed body shakes and hand tremors, which my friends say wasn't there before I doing cough medicine.

I'm looking at a Suboxone clinic for treatment and different nootropics and supplements.
Here's what I'm taking currently
Morning
· Adrafinil - 300mg (Attention)
· L-Theanine - 500mg (Anxiety)
· Phenibut HCL (Anxiety / Shakiness) - 500mg - 1000mg Powder
· Kava-kava (Anxiety & Bad nerves)
_________________________________________________________________
Noon
· Coginizin - 1000mg (Attention)
· Caffeine - 50mg (Awake)
· L-Theanine - 200mg (Anxiety)
· Phenibut HCL - 250 mg Powder
_________________________________________________________________
Afternoon
· Magnesium - 500mg (Hand tremors)
_________________________________________________________________
Evening
· Valerian Root - 530mg (Sleep / Anxiety)
· N-Acetyl-Cystine - 500mg (DXM Withdrawals)

Medicine

Morning
Vyvanse 40mg - Amphetamine
Propranolol – 20mg - Beta-blocker / Hand tremors
_________________________________________________________________
Evening
Risperidone - 2mg - Antipsychotic
Ambien – 5mg
Fluoxetine 100mg - SSRI

My main question is what nootropics are good for hand tremors and severe crippling anxiety (on a scale of 8 to 10.) Phenibut does ok, but I'm looking for something maybe as effective as Xanax/Alcohol for tremors, and something to help control the shaking which has made me a target of harassment and videos on Snapchat.

My shrinks won't prescribe any good medicine due to my past and drug use, obtaining a prescripition for Xanax (which I actually used for anxiety) required me to write a letter and beg two months, and I don't want to be addicted to Benzos, Benzo's are my last ditch effort to save myself.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I'm not aware of any "nootropics" (a very vague grouping of a number of substances that couldn't otherwise be more different from one another - other than being advertised as providing some kind of "cognitive enhancement") that help with tremors, or gabaergic stuff like phenibut that doesn't cause dependency.

Really writing a letter and begging your doctors for two months in order to get either clonazepam or diazepam (not alprazolam, as it won't be as useful) is your best bet IMO. You're taking enough phenibut such that if you continue to use it in the way you described (dosage and frequency of use), you'll almost certainly end up with some kind of dependency related issue.

Well, what is REALLY probably your best bet in terms of your short and long term health would be to address the significant number of medications and supplements your taking. For instance, if you're struggling with hand tremors, lower your dose or switch antipsychotics (risperidone is well known to have a side effects of causing tremors and tics) to something with fewer side effects (seroquel, for instance).

Some people get prescribed antipsychotics for insomnia and anxiety. For most people, this is IMO a very poor practices, as generally speaking there are more effective medications with fewer side effects that can be used for the same purpose. So if you're taking the risperidone for insomnia or anxiety, I'd highly recommend looking into other classes of medication to treat your concerns.

Stimulant use can also lead to tremor like side effects. You may be particularly susceptible to this kind of side effect. See you are using vyvanse and two other stimulants throughout the day. Consider eliminated the caffeine and adrafinil. IME there are more issues taking a number of different stimulants over a short period of time (like a day) than taking slightly more of just a single type of stimulant.

Apart from the antipsychotic and stims, you're also taking a host of other things that can affect your health and have the potential for their own side effects. While you are working out the issues with finding more appropriate medication, I'd really consider you suggest basically taking out all the nootropics and supplements that are not essential to your general wellbeing, then reintroducing them one at a time to your routine, waiting each new addition until you have had some time to really explore the costs and benefits associated with how your experience and quality of life change with each new supplement/combo.

Certainly, you're taking a large enough number of things for there to be a real potential for harmful interactions and definitely increased an increased risk of side effects presenting.

You listed the purpose of each of your supplements, but I'd be interested to hear more about why you're taking each one and what effects (if any) you're noticed). For what reason(s) are you prescribed the medication you are? Hearing more about what conditions your doctor is treating and your reasons for augmenting the care you receive from a doctor with these various supplements.

However if you were to try just one of my suggestions, I'd say that lowering your dose of, eliminating or replacing risperidone with something that has fewer/less severe side effects should be your priority right now.

 

[RecoveringDude]

I'm not aware of any "nootropics" (a very vague grouping of a number of substances that couldn't otherwise be more different from one another - other than being advertised as providing some kind of "cognitive enhancement") that help with tremors, or gabaergic stuff like phenibut that doesn't cause dependency.

Really writing a letter and begging your doctors for two months in order to get either clonazepam or diazepam (not alprazolam, as it won't be as useful) is your best bet IMO. You're taking enough phenibut such that if you continue to use it in the way you described (dosage and frequency of use), you'll almost certainly end up with some kind of dependency related issue.

Well, what is REALLY probably your best bet in terms of your short and long term health would be to address the significant number of medications and supplements your taking. For instance, if you're struggling with hand tremors, lower your dose or switch antipsychotics (risperidone is well known to have a side effects of causing tremors and tics) to something with fewer side effects (seroquel, for instance).

Some people get prescribed antipsychotics for insomnia and anxiety. For most people, this is IMO a very poor practices, as generally speaking there are more effective medications with fewer side effects that can be used for the same purpose. So if you're taking the risperidone for insomnia or anxiety, I'd highly recommend looking into other classes of medication to treat your concerns.

Stimulant use can also lead to tremor like side effects. You may be particularly susceptible to this kind of side effect. See you are using vyvanse and two other stimulants throughout the day. Consider eliminated the caffeine and adrafinil. IME there are more issues taking a number of different stimulants over a short period of time (like a day) than taking slightly more of just a single type of stimulant.

Apart from the antipsychotic and stims, you're also taking a host of other things that can affect your health and have the potential for their own side effects. While you are working out the issues with finding more appropriate medication, I'd really consider you suggest basically taking out all the nootropics and supplements that are not essential to your general wellbeing, then reintroducing them one at a time to your routine, waiting each new addition until you have had some time to really explore the costs and benefits associated with how your experience and quality of life change with each new supplement/combo.

Certainly, you're taking a large enough number of things for there to be a real potential for harmful interactions and definitely increased an increased risk of side effects presenting.

You listed the purpose of each of your supplements, but I'd be interested to hear more about why you're taking each one and what effects (if any) you're noticed). For what reason(s) are you prescribed the medication you are? Hearing more about what conditions your doctor is treating and your reasons for augmenting the care you receive from a doctor with these various supplements.

However if you were to try just one of my suggestions, I'd say that lowering your dose of, eliminating or replacing risperidone with something that has fewer/less severe side effects should be your priority right now.

I've started taking all the supplements total about 4 days ago and ordering more. I'm hoping to treat the side-effects of mental problems with the supplements, (a bad and risky idea but it's all I have right now so I don't mentally break and end up in the pysch ward again.) I'm hoping to replace Vyvanse with Modafinil or Armadofinil. While amps are wonderful short term for ADHD they present a wide array of problems and fuck your dopamine levels over years of use.

The doc in the pysch ward bumped up my Risperidone from 0.25 mg to 2 mg in a span of four days, and my facial tics I think feel a bit worse while the tremors feel about the same for paranoia and "delusions," about people recording me when I'm shaking in school. In all honesty only 20% of I feel are delusions, I have evidence they are recording me. But anyway, I'll post more and make a list for you when I get home.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I mean, some supplements do seem to be helpful with the cognitive issues related to antipsychotic use (such as piracetam).

I'd suggest you actually look into replacing one or all the other "concentration/memory" oriented nootropics/suppliments with piracetam (in some places it is prescribed to treat ADHD). I don't have experience with coginizin, but out of everything else you're taking I know the racetams (for me particularly piracetam) can synthesize very constructive with most stimulants.

Let us know how long you're been on the risperidone. It always scared me how intense some of the side effects from these types of medications are like.

Have you ever tried seroquel to treat the stuff you're using risperidone for?

 

[RecoveringDude]

I mean, some supplements do seem to be helpful with the cognitive issues related to antipsychotic use (such as piracetam).

I'd suggest you actually look into replacing one or all the other "concentration/memory" oriented nootropics/suppliments with piracetam (in some places it is prescribed to treat ADHD). I don't have experience with coginizin, but out of everything else you're taking I know the racetams (for me particularly piracetam) can synthesize very constructive with most stimulants.

Let us know how long you're been on the risperidone. It always scared me how intense some of the side effects from these types of medications are like.

Have you ever tried seroquel to treat the stuff you're using risperidone for?

I was on seroquel and it was some heavy-duty stuff, one of the few medicines I've taken which can flat knock me out, (I think that's saying something about bipolar mania, maybe it's just in my head.) & seroquel put me to sleep. I was taken off it though. I've been on risperidone for a few months at a 0.25 mg dose until it was bumped up about a week and a half ago.

Here's that list and the effects

Adrafinil - 300mg (Attention) - Warmish feeling? Not sure
· L-Theanine - 500mg (Anxiety) Slight relaxed feeling like a cup of strong tea
· Phenibut HCL (Anxiety / Shakiness) - 500mg - 1000mg Powder - Super relaxed, equivalent to maybe 0.25mg of xanax
· Kava-kava (Anxiety & Bad nerves) VERY VERY GOOD FOR CALMING ME DOWN. God send, relaxes me and allows me to socialize like alcohol does, maybe better than 1mg of xanax in some cases.
__________________________________________________ _______________
Noon
· Coginizin - 1000mg (Attention) - Unsure, keeps me awake?
· Caffeine - 50mg (Awake) -Makes me awake and anxious like a bump of coke, I'm very sensitive to caffeine and sugar.

Afternoon
· Magnesium - 500mg (Hand tremors) - Unsure
__________________________________________________ _______________
Evening
· Valerian Root - 530mg (Sleep / Anxiety) - Slight relax feel, like 0.25mg of risperidone
· N-Acetyl-Cystine - 500mg (DXM Withdrawals) - Unsure.

I'm looking at buying modafinil to replace Vyvanse, and Phenzapam for occasional anxiety relief, as well as Corvalol, which contains a phenonbarital, I feel like Phenzapam and Corvalol would be good for my horrible shaking and bad nerves. I'm unsure if I should buy 30 10mg of valium, it's rather expensive but I have a source. I feel like the three would be overkill with all the other tranquilizers and depressants I'm combining and would act too hard on GABA and Glutmate receptors, which are probably already shot from DXM abuse

 

[Jabberwocky]

Thanks for the extra info OP! When did you noticed the stuff like tremors beginning? Have you ever found anything that works for the bipolar mania (honestly I don't know, maybe depakote or lithium or something)?

 

[RecoveringDude]

Thanks for the extra info OP! When did you noticed the stuff like tremors beginning? Have you ever found anything that works for the bipolar mania (honestly I don't know, maybe depakote or lithium or something)?

I noticed the tremors about a year and a half ago, at least that's when they became bad enough to notice and interfere with drawing, writing, socializing, seeming like a normal person, etc. They progressively got worst and I used DXM to ironically, control them sometimes. Funny enough, when I exercise and do cardio, they get worse for about an hour.

Another thing I forgot to mention, my doc doesn't think I have any problems from DXM abuse other than emotional damage, I told him I think I had brain damage and explained how and he simply said the fact I could read articles regarding chemistry indicates I'm fine (no.)
He told me that earlier in his career he and his colleagues used DXM to induce Schizophrenia in rats which prompted me to quit a month later

Anyway, docs won't prescribe mood stabilizers as they don't think I need them. To be honest, I don't talk to my doctors about my problems enough because I think they might prescribe me worthless stuff or overmedicate me like they did three years ago.Any herbs you know of, or alternative Russian analogues worth looking into? I can order pretty much any Russian pharmaceutical.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I'd strongly suggest seeing a neurologist about the tremors if they've been going on that long. What do you think caused them? Were you on any particular medication or using any particular drugs?

Unless they have a damn good reason, it is strange your doc isn't okay with trying a mood stabilizer instead of the risperidone. I mean, it has a lot to do with what is causing the tremors in the first place, but I can't imagine taking risperidone is going to make them go away.

If you can get baclofen or something, that might help (it is a lot like phenibut, but like it's bigger brother). It would also be worth trying gabapentin (itself a kind of mood stabilizer) and pregabalin. Again, all if you can get them - though if you have anxiety gabapentin is pretty easy to be prescribed given how few side effects/adverse effects it has and its ability to treat anxiety.

I don't know much about the Russian pharm/RC scene.

If you can, I strongly suggest that instead of relying primarily on drugs and supplements to help heal your mind, you try putting some time in exploring mindfulness and vipassana/metta meditation. That is almost certainly a more effective option than focusing just on substance use (and of course one can engage in both at the same time).

 

[RecoveringDude]

I'd strongly suggest seeing a neurologist about the tremors if they've been going on that long. What do you think caused them? Were you on any particular medication or using any particular drugs?

Unless they have a damn good reason, it is strange your doc isn't okay with trying a mood stabilizer instead of the risperidone. I mean, it has a lot to do with what is causing the tremors in the first place, but I can't imagine taking risperidone is going to make them go away.

If you can get baclofen or something, that might help (it is a lot like phenibut, but like it's bigger brother). It would also be worth trying gabapentin (itself a kind of mood stabilizer) and pregabalin. Again, all if you can get them - though if you have anxiety gabapentin is pretty easy to be prescribed given how few side effects/adverse effects it has and its ability to treat anxiety.

I don't know much about the Russian pharm/RC scene.

If you can, I strongly suggest that instead of relying primarily on drugs and supplements to help heal your mind, you try putting some time in exploring mindfulness and vipassana/metta meditation. That is almost certainly a more effective option than focusing just on substance use (and of course one can engage in both at the same time).

Been on gabapentin, dunno how effective it was, it relaxed me the first few days and made me relaxed before tolerance built up.

My main theory behind the tremors is serotonin syndrome. Hell, I used to down SSRI's with cough syrup to potentiate the high if that's saying anything. I feel fucked in the head and the only reason I'm not doing DXM anymore is because I want to stop the damage if I can, I don't think I can reverse the damage without a few years of time and HEAVY medication and self-therapy. FUCK DXM. I used to look up to it, it's a shitty drug that I consider more harmful than molly.

Meditation is something I can't do right now with all the things on my plate, it'll have to wait till school is out.

 

[RecoveringDude]

An idea of how much DXM I took. Probably 30 times a year.

 

[RecoveringDude]

bumping

 

[AloeOne]

So just from a quick look over your daily stack...

(All this is my own experience/conjecture, so your mileage may vary.)

First off, I'd try and keep the phenibut doses as low and consistent as possible (e.g., try not to vary dose between .5-1g, and take it at the same time every day) ...I've found the rebound anxiety to be much more noticeable with varying dosages. On the topic of rebound anxiety I'd also try and minimize/eliminate the valerian root... I've found it to be quite short. A dose usually ends with me being much more agitated after 5-6 hours.

I've never tried Adrafinil but I do have a fair bit of experience with prescription amphetamine... from a look at wiki:

modafinil increases locomotor activity and extracellular dopamine concentrations in animals in a manner similar to the selective DRI vanoxerine (GBR-12909),^[53] and also inhibits methamphetamine-induced dopamine release (a common property of DRIs, since DAT transport facilitates methamphetamine's access to its intracellular targets). As such, "modafinil is an exceptionally weak, but apparently very selective, [DAT] inhibitor

I've never had a good time mixing DRIs and amphetamine. More to the point, I've found they 'fight' each other in away that causes way more side effects than desired effects. It seems like your adrafinil + amph combo could be causing more harm than good? Food for thought.

The one thing that really jumps out at me is the Fluoxetine... It's an inhibitor of a few liver enzymes, and that could be increasing your doses of quite a few drugs... Have a look at the "substrates" column on CYP2D6, CYP2C19, CYP2B6, and CYP2C9.

If I had to make a wild guess I would say mixing amphetamine and a DRI along with short-acting downer type stuff on top of an enzyme inhibitor might be contributing to your shakes. Have you considered switching to a less stimulating SSRI? What about spreading your respiridone across multiple doses per day?

EDIT: depending on how long you've been taking the phenibut I'd recommend trying to cut that one out asap... the withdrawal is no fun at all, and dependence can develop quite rapidly ime.

 

[RecoveringDude]

Stimulants make me lowkey happy but paranoid, mania, and anxious, they're this what I call a triple edge sword, one good, two bad. They make me shaky, but hype and social.

Downers make me relaxed, chill, able to socialize without paranoia, but slightly weird.
I'm having an art show and I don't know if I should go with downers or stimulants. I need downers for loud settings to feel normal.