Bulking on a low carb diet / Cycle Advice

Vastness

Vastness

Bluelight Crew
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I made somewhat related post in "Healthy Living" but I thought this might get more responses here given that this is primarily an exercise/lifting forum.

Everything I have read about the important of carbs just sings their praises for bulking basically, but I have a problem with this because I just physically cannot eat a high quantity of carbs in a day without starting to feel bloated, fuzzy headed, and occasionally embarassingly flatulent! Obviously this affects my concentration and overall well being. I recently switched to a pseudo-keto diet of sorts and am going to try to keep my macros at 15/55/30 - Carbs/Fat/Protein for an average of 4000 calories a day (maybe more like 4300 on training days, 3800 on non-training days).

I will be taking Anavar and Ibutamoren (MK-677) for 6-8 weeks depending on how I feel at week 3, tapering up and tapering down the Anavar, plus various liver supplements and vitamins.


However, again, everything I am reading says that carbs are just essential to bulk... however I just don't think I am willing to do this and put up feeling like shit for up to 2 months. Everything I've read also, frustratingly, is written from the perspective of trying to convince someone who is not eating carbs for some ethereal healthy reasons (carbs are not that bad, just suck it up and eat them!) rather than offering alternative to someone like myself who actually just can't apparently stomach many carbs!

So, is there a solution?? I am just going to try regardless because I don't think I can deal with just sucking it up and eating carbs for gains and feeling like shit half the day. I would like to just replace my glycogen with copious amounts of protein via gluconeogenesis, I know digestion of these calories will be slower but perhaps with some adjusted timing of pre-workout shakes/meals this will still potentially be workable?


So, does anyone have any advice for me regarding this? Again, ideally, I want to keep carbs to probably 200g max, ideally even a little less like 150g.

Has anyone had any success doing something similar?

Any advice on my planned cycle would also be much appreciated.
 
First as a preface, try and move away from thinking of your macros as percentages. Think of your protein and fat needs as multipliers of your bodyweight (1X and .5X for example) and carbs as the leftover. In this way, if you cut calories by 500, you won't inadvertanly run protein too low. And so on. Like I may want 150g protein and 75g fat and need 3500 calories to move the scale, so I back the carb needs out of that. Just play around with it enough to see the limits of percentage splits.

And ya, I get all of that stuff when bulking high carb. I weigh in the 140s and bulk as high as 500g carbs at times. Constant bowel movements, discomfort, scared shitless to attempt anything romantic, and so on. I would stop by bulks for 36 hours if I knew I was going to have sex...it got ugly. Plus I am a small guy with a wicked metabolism, so it's more food in less space.

Drinking carbs is one thing that does help. It's not ideal, but even stuff like Gatorade can be fit into your macros. And just google calorically dense foods and look for ones high in carbs. Sometimes I will buy a carton of saltine crackers or Goldfish and snack on it across the day.

The evidence really seems to suggest that calories control body composition, and that carbs and fats can vary within fixed calories without DIRECTLY affecting composition. One could argue an INDIRECT effect, as many people can perform better on high carb, and more work capacity can lead to better gains. I have a hard time strength training on low carb.

Maybe try something like cyclical high carb, high fat and place your heavy training days around the carbs? Also, train in a hoodie if the glycogen fluctuation thing messes with you. Like I am cutting now and carbs are low, and I feel and look flat. I am not too worried as I know how to carb into it for aesthetics, but it's still not exactly motivating. Raise water and sodium a couple hours before training if you are worried about lost leverages due to glycogen depletion.

But ya, I feel your pain. People always make jokes about how lucky I am to he able to eat so much and not get fat. And yes, I suppose it is fun for an evening of a weekend, but day in day out it gets old real fast.
 
I had this discussion on here a few years ago, but to cut a long story short, carbs are not always essential to bulking, though they probably permit a more 'optimal' type of bulk.

I have a friend who's a bodybuilder (formerly competitive) who has something called FPIES, which is basically a very severe intolerance to certain types of food.

In his case, he can't eat most of the carbohydrate-based staples we're familiar with (rice, potatoes, pasta etc). He survives on lots of roast chickens and not a lot else.

Anyway, he's a big guy (always very ripped). It's possible he could have been bigger with more carbs I guess (we'll never know), but either way, you should still feel positive that you can do well on low carbs, and certainly on 150g or so.
 
I also think it's really hard if not impossible to separate the placebo out of it all.

Am I training worse because I have had fewer carbs or because I know I have had fewer carbs? If I read a convincing article that low carb is better for performance, will I perform better?
 
Thank you both for your helpful responses as ever. I am about a week in now to my high calorie low carb bulking diet, and I have found myself eating more carbs than I originally intended but still fairly low... honestly in regards to training I haven't noticed too much difference on higher carb or lower carb days, although at a few points just doing normal stuff I have become suddenly aware of having pretty low energy levels and a feeling I should eat some carbs.

My digestive system has not felt that great at times but it's hard to tell if it's the carbs, the increase in calories, some kind of hormonal response to the supposedly quite mild oral steroid I am taking, or possibly a reaction to slight overtraining brought on by a change in my exercise routine, or all of these things. I am feeling a little noobish at the moment with regards to some aspects of my cycle, or rather, the planning and preparation for it, but I feel like I'm committed now so I'm gonna see things through, I have not gone over 20mg of Anavar yet either so it could be largely placebo but I have felt a little strange at times.

Anyway with regards to diet, I have unintentionally on average been eating almost a 33/33/33 split in terms of weight - 250g carbs, 230g fat and 250 gram protein. I am about 100g over my actual protein need, so hopefully this extra protein is not going to do me any harm. Presumably, CFC, your friend with FPIES was way over his protein allowance and still in reasonably good health, so I should not be overly concerned about this either?

Something that does concern me about my currently rather high fat intake, is that I have recently read that Anavar does not have good effects on lipid profile, ie, the ratio of HDL:LDL and overall cholesterol levels. Is this something I should be concerned about?

I know the general advice around here is that PCT is not needed, but I have read a few studies that suggest Tamoxifen can have beneficial effects on lipid profiles, although granted these studies were done on women (or female rats) - would this ever be a reason to use a PCT? Granted, I am possibly just looking for an excuse to take it because I am (perhaps unreasonably, as I'm not planning to go over 40mg a day) scared of developing gyno and am checking my boobs daily. 8(
 
No real worries about your lipids man. Healthy fats can be beneficial to them. The lowish dose of var will impact them but not for a long enough duration to cause physical harm. A guy on another board wrecked his lipids with tren and brought them back to decent ranges within 3-4 weeks with good food and exercise.
 
Vastness said:
Presumably, CFC, your friend with FPIES was way over his protein allowance and still in reasonably good health, so I should not be overly concerned about this either?
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His fat intake was high, so his health would be ok. A very high protein low fat diet is harmful, but not the other way around.

Something that does concern me about my currently rather high fat intake, is that I have recently read that Anavar does not have good effects on lipid profile, ie, the ratio of HDL:LDL and overall cholesterol levels. Is this something I should be concerned about?
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Fat intake and cholesterol levels aren't directly related. Also anavar's impact on lipids is pretty limited compared to most others. Get plenty of healthy veggies and antioxidants and you should be fine.

I know the general advice around here is that PCT is not needed, but I have read a few studies that suggest Tamoxifen can have beneficial effects on lipid profiles, although granted these studies were done on women (or female rats)
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They do, but used as a PCT tamoxifen is not going to help your lipids during your cycle. So instead take taurine at 5g/day and another antioxidant like NAC or bioavailable curcumin and you'll be fine.
 
What are your goals and how much do you weigh sir?

You are intending to run/running 20mg anavar and I assume 10-20mg mk677/ibutamoren daily, am I correct?

Have you used ibutamoren before?
 
Hi Lotus123, my weight before I started was around 170lb, and my goals are to simply put on and keep as much muscle as I can during my short 6 week cycle. :) I do not intend this to be a regular thing and don't see myself doing it again for at least another year or so.

I am running Anavar 20-30-40-40-30-20 mg (that's over 6 weeks). I did initially intend to run at a lower max dosage and shallower taper but my tablets are 10mg and not easy to divide and ultimately a desire to push the dosage a little higher triumphed over caution. I figure my dosage is still within the range of reasonable safety however.

I am also running 20mg Ibutamoren daily. I have not used Ibutamoren before.
 
Your var doses are very conservative compared to the new fad dosing of 50-100mg/day which has become the thing.
 
Vastness said:
Hi Lotus123, my weight before I started was around 170lb, and my goals are to simply put on and keep as much muscle as I can during my short 6 week cycle. :) I do not intend this to be a regular thing and don't see myself doing it again for at least another year or so.

I am running Anavar 20-30-40-40-30-20 mg (that's over 6 weeks). I did initially intend to run at a lower max dosage and shallower taper but my tablets are 10mg and not easy to divide and ultimately a desire to push the dosage a little higher triumphed over caution. I figure my dosage is still within the range of reasonable safety however.

I am also running 20mg Ibutamoren daily. I have not used Ibutamoren before.
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Ibutamoren is effectively like an oral version of GHRP6. It is clinically proven to elevate IGF1 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9467542 ) and is relatively cheap for the growth hormone boost you get from it.

The cycles on this forum are much more conservative than the culture I am used to (my Anavar comes in 50mg tablets and I know women who use them) but that is no bad thing - the people on here will probably live longer. Your cycle is relatively sensible and safe, you'll probably get more pronounced effects from the mk677 (fatigue, deep sleep, fat loss) than the Anavar. The growth hormone will amplify the effects of the anavar.

You're unlikely to have any pronounced side effects from the anavar unless you are sensitive to it. It will probably work well for what you have planned as long as it is legit. Most anavar is faked - it is just stanozolol/winstrol. Getting legit UGL anavar is very difficult and getting pharma grade anavar is very expensive. I once paid about £120 (~$155) for a box of 50x10mg pharma grade anavar from Thailand. It may be worth getting the anavar tested if you have a facility to do so
 
Serotonin101 said:
Your var doses are very conservative compared to the new fad dosing of 50-100mg/day which has become the thing.
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I know a few women using 50mg/day Anavar. Most men I know in the bodybuilding scene don't even use anavar any more as it is expensive compared to just running more of the strong drugs. The steroid culture on this board is very different to the world I have known.
 
Genetic Freak said:
I managed on 25mg when I was a lad...
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When you used just 25mg of anavar - how did you take it sir? Obviously it has a half life of 9 hours but I haven't seen someone make fantastic results on so little (equally most gear these days is underdosed or fake, probably why most guys take so much - they're getting less than they think)
 
Lotus123 said:
When you used just 25mg of anavar - how did you take it sir? Obviously it has a half life of 9 hours but I haven't seen someone make fantastic results on so little (equally most gear these days is underdosed or fake, probably why most guys take so much - they're getting less than they think)
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I'm trying to think back to 1983.... From memory the tablets were 5mg..? am, midday, pm... Managed a 600lb deadlift, and dips with 200lbs dangling from a belt, chins with 150lbs...

Not huge but strong as f***....lol
 
Genetic Freak said:
I'm trying to think back to 1983.... From memory the tablets were 5mg..? am, midday, pm... Managed a 600lb deadlift, and dips with 200lbs dangling from a belt, chins with 150lbs...

Not huge but strong as f***....lol
Click to expand...

And petrol was 50p a gallon.... :)
 
Lotus123 said:
Getting legit UGL anavar is very difficult and getting pharma grade anavar is very expensive. I once paid about £120 (~$155) for a box of 50x10mg pharma grade anavar from Thailand. It may be worth getting the anavar tested if you have a facility to do so
Click to expand...
Yeah, I didn't actually get testing equipment which in retrospect I could have done but I did a little prior research and did see that Anavar is very widely faked. So I had a look at this page and made sure to get a high purity brand.

Obviously it is perhaps still possible I have been using very authentic looking fakes, and I have no frame of reference but so far almost half way through I think I have made good size and strength gains, a lot of people have commented I look bigger and I've smashed through all my previous personal best lifts. Honestly I think I could have dosed lower and still have got visible results. One week in I was debating whether to push it to 50mg but I feel like this would just be unnecessary.

I am still occasionally feeling a bit strange, maybe more irritable than usual, and to be honest I am kind of looking forward to being done, but again this could be a result of slight overtraining from an unusually intense lifting regime... I definitely didn't max out my genetic potential as far as muscular growth before doing this but I am fine with that because as I mentioned, bodybuilding is not my sport.

One thing that does concern me a little which I discovered after already beginning my cycle so decided to just continue regardless, is that supposedly all the studies with Ibutamoren were done with Ibutamoren Mesylate, whereas the vast majority of capped versions of this compound available just contain freebase Ibutamoren, which is cheaper but is basically entirely unstudied. This does make me wonder if the Ibutamoren I am taking could be even harmful. I think I have noticed some of the usual sides like some bloat, sleepiness, etc, but the power of suggestion is a powerful thing...
 
The smartest thing to do with all PEDs is to get the most mileage out of the smallest possible amount. Most people don't even try low doses, so their opinions on it are often unreliable. And no matter what dose a person uses, there's only so much you can gain and hold during and in the weeks after a cycle, so doubling the dose for another few pounds can be pointless and often counterproductive. In either case, it's not like you can't take more next time if it hasn't worked to your satisfaction this time. Rome wasn't built in a day, etc etc ;)
 
Hi OP

Did you ended up running this cycle and how were your results overall?
 
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