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I'm Close... Need some help

That's great news, R13. Do you know how long you'll be on the subs?
 
That's great news, R13. Do you know how long you'll be on the subs?
She said it was basically till my brain decides to start doing things the way it should. Right now I am massively wired. Not at all what I expected. During the taper it was the opposite I felt mostly down. I actually feel no desire for morphine. Not Hungry. etc. Once I was completely off if flipped 180.

Still have the pins and creepy crawlies and some restlessness. Ears still ringing.

I have been on pain meds for over 25 years. Early on it was a script here and there. Mid 2000's started oxy. Few years later Moved to morphine when I finally got a good pain doc. So alot of years of pain meds... We did talk a bit if I wanted to continue pain meds. Told here I wanted to see where I was pain wise. Then go from there.

Man... After the clinics refused to help me I feel blessed now...

R13
 
My friend got busy this afternoon so could not hook up for that script. But after looking up suboxone all this rehab stuff got me thinking. Last night when I melted down it was because of pain. 40 hours of tossing and turning on herniated disks. 2 15mg irs did not break me out of withdrawals. So 30mg of morphine did not do it. But suboxone will. That bothers me... Really it does. Its like going backwards. Now im going to take something thats a stronger opiate in my brain so I don't have to deal with some minor left over withdrawals. Then at a later date I have to taper off that. That makes absolutely no sense to me. None. Zip. Nada. Its ass freaking backwards. Then there is the cost...

New plan... From what i'm reading my brain does need to adjust. So why not just do it with what I have. Morphine does not get me high. I have no desire for it. I have enough 15mg irs and ers to last a couple of months on a slow taper. My will power is fine... Hell I just went through over 45 days of hell. I think at this point im going to pass on suboxone and just do a super slow low dose ( 15mg) taper for a month or two and see what happens. See how I adjust.

Warning note - I would not attempt this if you were getting high off your drugs. When I did my oxy taper 10 years ago while transitioning to morphine. All I wanted was oxy. Because I was getting buzzed. wanted it for months after while on morphine. No buzz with morphine. No buzz with suboxone.... Whats the difference?

R13

Just did some quick reading... Apparently morphine can be used as an alternative to bup and methadone in rehab settings. Its even being used for methadone withdrawal. Think im on the right track here...
 
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I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're staying with the analgesia of the pain meds. Are you saying you aren't getting relief from morphine but are from buprenorphine now, and that is what bugs you? For some reason my mind isn't working right at the moment.
 
Hey TPD... I may have worded that a bit wrong. 40 or so hours of restless body syndrome makes you a bit whacked out. Heres the short answer. My friends wife wanted to put me on subs. She basically said my brain needs time to get back to normal. Suboxone for a while then taper off. The thought of having to do another taper with another drug just did not feel right. If my brain does need an extended taper why not just do a bit of low dose morphine for a month or so. Effect should be the same right?

Thats the point I was trying to make. I can take a low dose of say 15mg a day to give my brain what it wants/needs.

Anyways... Thats where im at now. Taking 15mg daily for the next month or so and see what happens.

Fyi... Im through the worst of the withdrawals. Still getting pins and needles, sleeplessness, allergies .etc. On a side note... I am taking that 15mg just before bed and low and behold I can sleep 4-5 hours.

Call it an experiment... Whats the worst that can happen on 15mg a day lol. Who knows maybe it will make the next few months easier.

Got the xanax kick back coming tomorrow and not looking forward to it.... Good the day you take it. Neutral the next day. Miserable the third. Been taking that almost 20 years PRN for flare ups. Key is not to take it more than 3-4 days in a row.

Anyways... Bed time. Will checkin and post how its going.

R13

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're staying with the analgesia of the pain meds. Are you saying you aren't getting relief from morphine but are from buprenorphine now, and that is what bugs you? For some reason my mind isn't working right at the moment.
 
Tried going to sleep at 1am last night. Took an hour of mind quieting and fell asleep a little after 2am. Slept till 6:30. Got up ate. Rode my Bike. Walked the dog. Dozed at around 930am and slept 2 more hours. No benzo's in almost 3 days and im sleeping. Withdrawals are light. Pins, sneezing and some light chills. This is looking real good at this point. My mind is still over amped but hopefully it will settle soon.

R13
 
The reason something like buprenorphine is better for periods of stabilization, which is what she sounds like she was referring to, because its long half-life helps keep a more consistent level of it in your system, compared to a short acting opioid like morphine.

Coupled with a very slow, comfortable taper, it allows your body to adjust more easily and transition more seamlessly into early recovery than it would be with the kind of shock to the system that can come after detoxing from a significant, long standing habit.

But if you also deal with pain issues and need meds, something like methadone or morphine would be preferable to buprenorphine. If necessary, it is at least possible to do what you're suggesting with the morphine instead of buprenorphine (you'll need to exercise a little more due diligence and care, but it's certainly possible).
 
Im actually doing pretty good right now. Slept a solid 5 hours last night ( 6 is normal ). As far as the subs go I don't want anything addictive with a long half life right now. Just don't want the expense or another taper.

I have been riding my bike 15 miles a day for the last 3 days. Its helped alot. I'm still getting intermittent withdrawal symptoms. Hot/cold, Pins, Sneezing, etc. No anxiety.

I'm a pretty happy camper right now. My pain so far is manageable. That above all is making for a bright narcotic free future.

I plan on keeping the 15mg for a while and then spin it off by taking it an hour later for a while then stopping that.

R13

The reason something like buprenorphine is better for periods of stabilization, which is what she sounds like she was referring to, because its long half-life helps keep a more consistent level of it in your system, compared to a short acting opioid like morphine.

Coupled with a very slow, comfortable taper, it allows your body to adjust more easily and transition more seamlessly into early recovery than it would be with the kind of shock to the system that can come after detoxing from a significant, long standing habit.

But if you also deal with pain issues and need meds, something like methadone or morphine would be preferable to buprenorphine. If necessary, it is at least possible to do what you're suggesting with the morphine instead of buprenorphine (you'll need to exercise a little more due diligence and care, but it's certainly possible).
 
One of the other thoughts on that low dose of morphine were as follows. By setting up a cycle of 6 hours on and 18 off morphine with a small amount. I was hoping to do a hair of the dog thing. Putting my body in a position where its okay to have it and okay not to without all hell breaking loose ( Withdrawals ). Kind of reverse training. Force it to be okay when without the drug. Funny how your mind can come up with some wild ideas. Especially while withdrawing.

R13
 
Last night my brain finally left that manic hyper state it was in. Got hit with increased withdrawals as my mind came down. Some pain, restlessness, lots of pins and sneezing. I ended up taking a real low dose of xanax and slept 9.5 hours. Woke up and have had intermittent withdrawals through out the day. Nothing bad just annoying. My buddies wife warned me this was going to happen. Said it comes in waves.

I'm missing something else. Realized it this morning. My lucid morphine dreaming is gone. I hated it when I first started taking it. Even had to sleep with a night light at first because they would freak me out. I soon learned to embrace them and actually looked forward to my nightly jaunts to strange new worlds. These were so intense I would wake up after an intense one and just revel in the color, intensity and awe. They would literally shake me to my core. These will be missed.

R13
 
How has this affected your plans for continuing ahead in your process with this?
 
I was hurting a bit yesterday and could not sleep much last night ( about 4 hours ). Today withdrawals were almost non existent. Its like my brain is cycling. High/low. Starting next week Im going to add time to my dose and move it from 5pm to 5am. Stay there a while ( Few weeks ) and then cycle that last dose by adding separation time every day. Add an extra hour to the length between doses. Do that over 18 days and see how my brain is doing on the off time. I have enough 15's left to do 3-4 months if I want. Hopefully I will stabilize in that period and see where im at.

I have worked really really hard over the past 10 years reversing my diabetes, loosing 100lbs and exercising twice daily. I want to give it enough time so I don't just give up too easy. I know my brain needs to readjust. I am resisting the impulse to go back into pain management with a cheap drug like methadone. I keep telling myself you just went through hell and back give your self some time.

I did go out and do consulting jobs the last 2 days ( Didn't want to ). Got work this weekend. So im working excising. Day by day....

R13
 
Well that small dose went off track last night. Got hours of itching off it. Guess my body is telling me something. No more small dose. Funny... Have not itched off an opiate in many many years. Kind of blew me away for my body to reset that fast. Once the itching stopped slept a solid 6 hours. feel good today.

R13
 
Quick status update... 11 days out from the last big drop and the hell response. Still getting withdrawals. Insomnia. The pins and needles have been driving me nuts and have been causing alot of cannot sit still. Got a script of Klonopin from my buds wife. I like it as it knocks me out. Hate it because it dumbs me down the next day. Making me lethargic. Wish I would have had the Klonopin for the two hell drops I did... Hind sight huh. Anyways... Im sore but hanging in there.

R13
 
Finishing this thread. 13 days out now. looks like the worst is over. Fire ants in my spine finally decided to quit ( These guys were really bad - Pins needles ). The gnawing in my spine has stopped. Things are mellowing. Insomnia is the only issue. Since im not eating much right now im also transitioning to a vegan diet ( Grew up in a vegan household ). Going to add juices in for some detoxing. That and ride my beloved mountain bike ( its 117 in phoenix today - Hot ride coming up ).

R13
 
It's good to hear you're health is starting to improve.

I forget, did you ever try taking gabapentin or pregabalin for the pins and needles sensations you were experiencing?
 
Really glad to hear the worst is behind you. Do you have thoughts about next steps? Acute withdrawal is the worst. But the next couple months are likely to be challenging. Probably worth thinking about how to ride out cravings, and better yet, how to try minimizing them.
 
One of the wonders of morphine was always the lack of craving. I still have a bunch here and have no desire to take it. Oxy was a whole different story... Today was day 15. Went out this morning and did a fixed wing drone flight first in a month. My biggest worry at this point is my pain level and if I can cope. I found someone that can write methadone for me if needed But I REALLY don't want to go that route.

If reliable insurance once again becomes a possibility I would without hesitation go morphine again.

In the meantime im riding 15-20 miles a day on my bike and hopefully soon my sleep schedule will normalize.

R13

Really glad to hear the worst is behind you. Do you have thoughts about next steps? Acute withdrawal is the worst. But the next couple months are likely to be challenging. Probably worth thinking about how to ride out cravings, and better yet, how to try minimizing them.
 
Lack of craving for morphine...interesting. Well, that's awesome. Certainly will make life easier than it otherwise might be.

Is your pain something you'll be living with on an ongoing basis?
 
I started pain management the usual way. Vicodin, Then Oxy, Then OxyCon. 2 or so years in my insurance decided it would no longer cover oxy. That same week my doc moved. Ended up in rapid withdrawals but got real lucky finding a management doc. She put me on morphine. I had a fit. I hated morphine. I wanted my oxy high back. I had fits. Took my wife down to plead my case. Claimed it did not work for pain. All the addict crap. 2-3 months later my oxy cravings were gone and I was stable on morphine. Best thing that ever happened to me. 10 years of morphine and I never wanted more. Never a high. Sedation at higher doses. I am sooooooo happy I got off the oxy. Thats a drug I will NEVER take again. Oxy definitely had the high and the cravings.

My back is very messed up. ankylosing spondylitis, Diffuse idiopathic skeletal hyperostosis, Multiple herniations, Bulging disks, Etc.

I finally slept 8 hours last night. My whole body crashed. Feel good today. Little lethargic. Even went out and worked.

Things are looking good. No cravings....

R13

Lack of craving for morphine...interesting. Well, that's awesome. Certainly will make life easier than it otherwise might be.

Is your pain something you'll be living with on an ongoing basis?
 
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