What part of neuropharm relates to drug synthesis??

[JohnBoy2000]

Or does the discipline cover that aspect at all?

In synthesizing new compounds, more selective drugs - I assume that would be more so through pharmaceutical companies, than universities?

Or is that more relative to biochemistry, organic chemistry?

Do they work in tandem with neuropharmacologists in companies to determine what exactly new compounds might achieve?

And do they just has a specific purpose in mind with a new drug, or, like many neurological drugs to date, are they just discovered by chance, and their effects later characterized?

 

[Theroux]

Here in the UK, Medicinal chemistry is a course which quite obviously focuses on the chemistry of drugs. Organic chemistry is very broad to study, a lot to do with other compounds not drug related but you can then specialise. Biochemistry is more biology than chemistry, cellular mechanisms and that sort of thing.

 

[sekio]

Neuropharmacology is how drugs effect the brain, organic chemistry is how drugs and their syntheses are discovered, chemical engineering is how they are made on large scale.

 

[JohnBoy2000]

Organic chemistry hmm?

Can you recommend a good organic chemistry book for beginners?
One that might give insight perhaps into how certain psychoactives were synthesized?

 

[adder]

In order to be able to plan synthesis of potentially new drugs you will need thorough understanding of organic chemistry. I don't agree organic chemistry covers a lot of compounds that are not drug-related, different drugs belong to different classes of organic compounds, a lot of drugs that target monoamine systems are amines themselves but can have many different moieties and functional groups in their structure, but many drugs don't have amines in their structure at all or they play secondary role in binding, consider various glycosides, steroids or peptides. Basically anything can be drug-related, and anything drug-related might as well have some application not drug-related or vice versa. Certainly there are some types of reactions that are invented with medicine and pharmaceutical industry in mind to make it easier for them to access certain structures and derivatives, but that pertains to classes of compounds already known to have some potentially interesting properties but at the same time structural modifications hard to explore because of lack of proper methodology. On the other hand at some point you might as well have to access some lead structure that is not related to those already known.

Of course being an organic chemist your career options are not limited to drug synthesis, from what I observe organic chemists get involved into different speciality branches as organic synthesis at scientific level with no immediate practical utility doesn't give you much money, even when you work at the university and manage to get new grants going, you will need to have some projects that lead to something practical and are not only of purely scientific interest, that basically means finding people working in some industry that need solutions which can be found in the lab, pharmaceutical industry being just one example.

As for books you may find useful, based on what I wrote earlier they are organic chemistry textbooks that start from the basics and then expand more and more upon them. Some good introductory textbooks are Organic Chemistry by McMurry, Wade, Brown, Klein or Sorrell. They all cover the basics and differ a bit in the way they present them as well as in extra bits they include. A much more advanced textbook is Organic Chemistry by Clayden which is widely used at universities and is very nice because it has all the basics that those previous textbooks have but discussed more in-depth with more mechanistic considerations, and also have a lot of advanced stuff discussed like asymmetric synthesis, protecting groups, heteroaromatics, organometallics other than organolithiums and Grignards incl. widely used transition-metal catalyzed reactions like cross-coupling or Heck, and more, generally a very good book when you know the basics and want to expand your knowledge, many advanced topics are not fully covered but it's good they're there, so you can grasp some info on them and then look for more info elsewhere. Truly advanced organic chemistry textbooks are Advanced Organic Chemistry by March (newest edition is 7th), Advanced Organic Chemistry by Carey & Sundberg (two volumes, one on mechanisms and more from a physical standpoint and the other one on synthesis), Advanced Organic Chemistry by Bruckner, Advanced Organic Chemistry by Monson, and Organic Synthesis by Smith. These are all of general interest covering a wide range of topics important in organic chemistry. There is also Comprehensive Organic Chemistry with Barry Trost as editor comprising of 9 volumes (1st edition from 1991, but there is also an updated recent edition from 2014), each on different group of reactions. There's definitely much more on basic and advanced levels but these are textbooks I've personally found most useful and interesting. Beyond these you have plenty of textbooks on single topics that are covered in much more detail and include research from recent years, very useful are also review-type articles which sometimes have lengths of textbook chapters.

BTW, organic chemistry with direct application in drug synthesis is often planning fairly long syntheses with more than 2 or 3 steps, and there retrosynthetic analysis comes in handy, so among textbooks of interest may also be Organic Synthesis: The Disconnection Approach by Warren & Wyatt.

 

[IamaBonobo]

Neuropharmacology doesn't cover drug synthesis. Rather, it is the study of how drugs interact with receptors in the brain and the downstream consequences of these interactions. This is not to be confused with psychopharmacology, which is a related discipline concerned with the psychological, physiological and behavioral effects produced by drugs. Neuropharm is much more molecular in nature. The way I like to put it is that neuropharmacology is the study of what happens to the cell after a drug hits a receptor.

If this is the kind of thin you're interested in, I'd recommend the textbook Molecular Neuropharmacology, A Foundation for Clinical Neuroscience by Nestler et al., either the 2nd or 3rd edition.

 

[JohnBoy2000]

In order to be able to plan synthesis of potentially new drugs you will need thorough understanding of organic chemistry. I don't agree organic chemistry covers a lot of compounds that are not drug-related, different drugs belong to different classes of organic compounds, a lot of drugs that target monoamine systems are amines themselves but can have many different moieties and functional groups in their structure, but many drugs don't have amines in their structure at all or they play secondary role in binding, consider various glycosides, steroids or peptides. Basically anything can be drug-related, and anything drug-related might as well have some application not drug-related or vice versa. Certainly there are some types of reactions that are invented with medicine and pharmaceutical industry in mind to make it easier for them to access certain structures and derivatives, but that pertains to classes of compounds already known to have some potentially interesting properties but at the same time structural modifications hard to explore because of lack of proper methodology. On the other hand at some point you might as well have to access some lead structure that is not related to those already known.

Of course being an organic chemist your career options are not limited to drug synthesis, from what I observe organic chemists get involved into different speciality branches as organic synthesis at scientific level with no immediate practical utility doesn't give you much money, even when you work at the university and manage to get new grants going, you will need to have some projects that lead to something practical and are not only of purely scientific interest, that basically means finding people working in some industry that need solutions which can be found in the lab, pharmaceutical industry being just one example.

As for books you may find useful, based on what I wrote earlier they are organic chemistry textbooks that start from the basics and then expand more and more upon them. Some good introductory textbooks are Organic Chemistry by McMurry, Wade, Brown, Klein or Sorrell. They all cover the basics and differ a bit in the way they present them as well as in extra bits they include. A much more advanced textbook is Organic Chemistry by Clayden which is widely used at universities and is very nice because it has all the basics that those previous textbooks have but discussed more in-depth with more mechanistic considerations, and also have a lot of advanced stuff discussed like asymmetric synthesis, protecting groups, heteroaromatics, organometallics other than organolithiums and Grignards incl. widely used transition-metal catalyzed reactions like cross-coupling or Heck, and more, generally a very good book when you know the basics and want to expand your knowledge, many advanced topics are not fully covered but it's good they're there, so you can grasp some info on them and then look for more info elsewhere. Truly advanced organic chemistry textbooks are Advanced Organic Chemistry by March (newest edition is 7th), Advanced Organic Chemistry by Carey & Sundberg (two volumes, one on mechanisms and more from a physical standpoint and the other one on synthesis), Advanced Organic Chemistry by Bruckner, Advanced Organic Chemistry by Monson, and Organic Synthesis by Smith. These are all of general interest covering a wide range of topics important in organic chemistry. There is also Comprehensive Organic Chemistry with Barry Trost as editor comprising of 9 volumes (1st edition from 1991, but there is also an updated recent edition from 2014), each on different group of reactions. There's definitely much more on basic and advanced levels but these are textbooks I've personally found most useful and interesting. Beyond these you have plenty of textbooks on single topics that are covered in much more detail and include research from recent years, very useful are also review-type articles which sometimes have lengths of textbook chapters.

BTW, organic chemistry with direct application in drug synthesis is often planning fairly long syntheses with more than 2 or 3 steps, and there retrosynthetic analysis comes in handy, so among textbooks of interest may also be Organic Synthesis: The Disconnection Approach by Warren & Wyatt.

I suppose - the reason I'm asking is because - my initial career I abandoned and, in trying to find a new career, well - I've had difficulty finding something that actually interests me.

However, low and behold, neuropsychopharm - does interest me.
Whether that is the case because I'm being treated as such, perhaps because I've needed to research the area to understand the a-typical means that is the most effective treatment for my specific case - or just a curious co-incidence - I cannot say.

But, either way - I now find this shit interesting.
I enjoy reading articles on how drugs mediate neurotransmission, and ultimately implicate behavior, functionality; cognitive functioning is one area that specifically interests me - perhaps not entirely co-incidental that, the primary symptom I myself have, is cognitive and executive dysfunction - treated with noradrenergics.
But then, through reading, I found my interests go beyond my own treatment, to restoration of functioning in patient imparied via neuroleptics, degenerative disorders etc.


So - like you say - development of new compounds, for research purposes - or with a specific purpose in mind.

My contention of course is that, specifically in the field of neuropharm, there is SOOOO much room of growth.
How could there not be?
It's barely 50 years old in terms of psychiatric drug recognition/development.

So - drug synthesis - may be a path I could take.


That being said - I've read a couple of neuropharm books, several academic papers etc.
It's a young science so, the material on it, it's easy enough to come to terms with.

There are post graduate degrees available to me, in neuropharm - which accept students from divergent disciplines - me again.
Prob due to the aforementioned youth of the science.


But - drug synthesis?
Organic chemistry?

I did chemistry fundamentals, 1st year of engineering.
Basic chemical structure, basic lab work etc.

If I wanted to pursue a career in that - what may I be looking at?
Cause, without knowing a single thing, I'm imagining having to go right back to basics.
Starting with an undergrad degree.
Which is something that, interests aside - I am not willing to do.

That being said - as mentioned, I know NOTHING about what that career establishment may potentially entail.

So - good place to start?
Couple of entry level books - which I intend to look at, and thank you for those titles.


If there's any further light that could be shed though - I'm keen to hear.

 

[sekio]

So - drug synthesis - may be a path I could take.

There's not a lot of "old school" synthesis that goes on nowadays, there's an awful lot of automation and a real trend towards microchemistry (HTS, automated analysis, computational chem) in most pharma settings from what I gather, Either that or you outsource to China/India for manufacture of active ingredients.

If you want a job in chemistry and don't want to fund your own lab from your own pocketbook (start a company, lease some commercial property, install hoods/cabinet/a lab/ etc, make sure you're all legally incorporated, and you're good to go), a degree froma reputable university is effectively mandatory. Many of the universities will have plenty of connections and a supply of professors who need chemists to do their dirty work for them, so there's also a good path to employment that way. Much easier to network like that than struggling to do the online job app shit.

If you're just studying it "recreationally" then adder nailed it, you really don't need too many textbooks because once you an grasp the fundamentals of a bunch of the principles of o-chem (stereochemistry, redox, different named reactions, thermodynamic vs kinetic products and so on) you can pretty muh just start browsing stuff on the internet and use sci-hub to pull papers from behind paywalls. Check out especially J. Chem. Education for some entyr level articles and, possibly, experiments.

As for chemicals and equipment, you pretty much have to get them online vie ebay or amazon because no reputable supplier sells to a private individual or home/po box address any more. Makes sense, the post office gets nervous sitting on my 4 20L barrels of ether.