Is 25i NBOMe Neurotoxic?

[Cotcha Yankinov]

"If I knew about the extremely high potency, full agonistic properties, potential for DNA related Halogen damage"

On the flip side, if you never found out about the high affinity and never researched then you would be just as likely to be where you are if you had taken mushrooms instead. And if you did start researching mushrooms, you would find something else to obsess over, and we'd be talking about something else. You've said it yourself, you've had problems obsessing before and you were fine until you started researching.

Don't listen to that shroomery guy. Listen to us and Nichols and your doctors... That shroomery guy is the type of person who has great technical knowledge but is incredibly unhelpful because he misses something that's right in his face.

Also he doesn't seem to understand phenethylamine neurotoxicity observed only in animals (MDMA). Psychedelics aren't neurotoxic in animals, and they certainly don't cause DNA damage (that's an old myth). Especially not by being bound to a receptor while it's internalized, I've actually asked a brilliant person about that before and he shot it down. That discussion was in the context of LSD and that one does actually bind pseudo-irreversibly.

That the shroomery guy would compare 5-HT2A agonists and phenethylamines (MDMA) is ridiculous. Once again, people can have great specific technical knowledge but just completely miss basic common sense things.

I'll mention that people get horrible adverse effects with ecstasy and then they go on to recover just fine... there is a whole lot of rumination driving symptoms in those people because of some research showing serotonin neurotoxicity in animals with high dose MDMA regimens.

Then they freak out and say "Oh no, my happiness chemical! I've fried my brain and I'll never be normal again!" Then they come back months later and they're back to normal. God forbid a mind altering drug would cause adverse psychological effects via a mechanism other than utter destruction of all brain cells. But the adverse effects feel like that subjectively, so I guess we can't blame people for thinking that.

5-HT2A receptors really don't matter. I would love to take a 5-HT2A inverse agonist for insomnia. I've taken inverse agonists at 2A before, it's a feature of many common meds... don't freak out as if 2A is necessary for the soul or to feel happiness.. downregulation of 2A is a good thing. 2A is really just necessary for psychedelics.

What you do however seem to have is OCD, which I highly suggest you seek professional treatment for.

 

[jacktheripper42]

"If I knew about the extremely high potency, full agonistic properties, potential for DNA related Halogen damage"

On the flip side, if you never found out about the high affinity and never researched then you would be just as likely to be where you are if you had taken mushrooms instead. And if you did start researching mushrooms, you would find something else to obsess over, and we'd be talking about something else. You've said it yourself, you've had problems obsessing before and you were fine until you started researching.

Don't listen to that shroomery guy. Listen to us and Nichols and your doctors... That shroomery guy is the type of person who has great technical knowledge but is incredibly unhelpful because he misses something that's right in his face.

Also he doesn't seem to understand phenethylamine neurotoxicity observed only in animals (MDMA). Psychedelics aren't neurotoxic in animals, and they certainly don't cause DNA damage (that's an old myth). Especially not by being bound to a receptor while it's internalized, I've actually asked a brilliant person about that before and he shot it down. That discussion was in the context of LSD and that one does actually bind pseudo-irreversibly.

That the shroomery guy would compare 5-HT2A agonists and phenethylamines (MDMA) is ridiculous. Once again, people can have great specific technical knowledge but just completely miss basic common sense things.

I'll mention that people get horrible adverse effects with ecstasy and then they go on to recover just fine... there is a whole lot of rumination driving symptoms in those people because of some research showing serotonin neurotoxicity in animals with high dose MDMA regimens.

Then they freak out and say "Oh no, my happiness chemical! I've fried my brain and I'll never be normal again!" Then they come back months later and they're back to normal. God forbid a mind altering drug would cause adverse psychological effects via a mechanism other than utter destruction of all brain cells. But the adverse effects feel like that subjectively, so I guess we can't blame people for thinking that.

5-HT2A receptors really don't matter. I would love to take a 5-HT2A inverse agonist for insomnia. I've taken inverse agonists at 2A before, it's a feature of many common meds... don't freak out as if 2A is necessary for the soul or to feel happiness.. downregulation of 2A is a good thing. 2A is really just necessary for psychedelics.

What you do however seem to have is OCD, which I highly suggest you seek professional treatment for.

Thanks so much Cotcha, yeah dude, it's just scary dealing with such a valuable neurotransmitter in your brain. Getting in your own head and thinking you can never feel happy again is a scary thought. I just hate getting intrusive thoughts of different things I remember researching and getting anxiety as a result of this and then reinforcing the notion that my brain was ever damaged in the first place. So technically speaking, my 5HT2A receptors are all O.K. and even if they weren't, they aren't vital for me to be happy or anxiety free? I need to just relax and stop all my obsessions.

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

There's no doubt your 5-HT2A receptors are just as functional as they were prior to psychedelic use, and it wouldn't really matter if they weren't that functional, in fact I think most people could use less 5-HT2A activation. 5-HT2A overexpression can be a feature of major depressive disorder.

I'll just mention again that drugs have been developed with the sole purpose of blocking 5-HT2A selectively for treatment of various neuropsychiatric conditions, and many great drugs have 5-HT2A blockade as a feature in addition to their other properties.

I'll tell you a little story RE: your fears of permanently damaging your brain.

Once upon a time I did a lot of really bunk ecstasy when I was 15-16. We're talking 10 pill binges and 5-6 days without sleep after getting methy/bath salty pills. These are actually known neurotoxins in animals mind you. Mixing it with amphetamine and other drugs, staying up for days at a time, you get the picture I suppose.

I got more and more brain fried and thought that I had permanently ruined my brain at 16. I'll skip the laundry list of symptoms et cetera, but anyways what I didn't realize at the time is that my biggest problem was really that my mind never "shut off" - it was just all inner monologue 24/7. Constantly rumination and self-referential thinking.

It was only when I started working on the rumination with mindfulness and the right medications that I began to get better (funnily enough a drug called risperidone that is essentially modeled after a selective 5-HT2A antagonist), but I had to first realize that talking to myself in my head 24/7 was not healthy - imagine that!

The voice in our head is a funny thing. Some people say it's a mistake to identify with the voice in our heads and think that that is "us". They say that we are not really the voice in our heads. But it can take practice with mindfulness to get to a point where we can just observe the inner monologue non-judgementally and non-reactively, to simply just be, rather than actively contribute to the inner monologue.

Implicated in OCD is a node of a circuit called the default mode network, this happens to be a node involved in self-referential processing. This default mode network is associated with disconnecting from the present moment.

Try to stay in the present moment. Not worrying about the future or regretting the past, just paying attention to the raw sensory input of the present - the way your hands feel, all the pins and needles and fuzziness, stare into the back of your eyelids or feel all the sensations of breathing. Use the feeling of breathing as an anchor. Every time you realize you're lost in thought, return your attention to the breath.

Focusing your attention on the raw sensory input of the breath can be frustrating at first, but understand that every time you realize you're lost in thought is a victory, believe it or not.

 

[Xorkoth]

Another example of what probably actually did damage my brain... at age 17-18, I took DXM in the form of Coricidin 10 times in a relative short period of time. If you're not aware, Coricidin is the absolute most damaging way to take DXM because to get a trippy dose you end up taking a lot of acetaminophen and chlorpheniramine maleate, which is an antihistamine which is quite dangerous at high doses. Several kids in my area died from it, and one kid was hospitalized taking the same dose I regularly took. After the last time, I felt brain damaged for a good 6 months. It was hard to get words out sometimes, I felt slow, I felt apathetic. I deeply regretted doing it for quite a while, and then I decided, hey, the brain is powerful, it will rebuild. Or if it doesn't, I'll have to live with this. When I accepted it, the stress went away and I very soon felt fine again. And in my case there was probably actually some amount of brain damage, unlike in your case.

You're displaying symptoms of OCD, as Cotcha said. I'm beginning to think the only way through this is with professional help, but not for the brain damage you're convincing yourself you have... for OCD/intrusive thoughts. Forget about brain damage... if you can't, you have a serious issue on your hands that goes beyond this one imagined scenario. What happens next time you freak yourself out? We have the power to destroy ourselves through our thoughts alone. Conversely, we have the power to be any way we want to be, through our thoughts alone. I'm fairly certain at this point that we are not going to be able to help you on here, because this is just going in circles with no end in sight. Go see a professional, and stop reading shit online.

Why you would take anything some random people at the Shroomery say over Dr David Nichols absolutely baffles me. It's nonsensical. Surely you must realize that...?

Get yourself some real help. You won't find it online.

 

[jacktheripper42]

There's no doubt your 5-HT2A receptors are just as functional as they were prior to psychedelic use, and it wouldn't really matter if they weren't that functional, in fact I think most people could use less 5-HT2A activation. 5-HT2A overexpression can be a feature of major depressive disorder.

I'll just mention again that drugs have been developed with the sole purpose of blocking 5-HT2A selectively for treatment of various neuropsychiatric conditions, and many great drugs have 5-HT2A blockade as a feature in addition to their other properties.

I'll tell you a little story RE: your fears of permanently damaging your brain.

Once upon a time I did a lot of really bunk ecstasy when I was 15-16. We're talking 10 pill binges and 5-6 days without sleep after getting methy/bath salty pills. These are actually known neurotoxins in animals mind you. Mixing it with amphetamine and other drugs, staying up for days at a time, you get the picture I suppose.

I got more and more brain fried and thought that I had permanently ruined my brain at 16. I'll skip the laundry list of symptoms et cetera, but anyways what I didn't realize at the time is that my biggest problem was really that my mind never "shut off" - it was just all inner monologue 24/7. Constantly rumination and self-referential thinking.

It was only when I started working on the rumination with mindfulness and the right medications that I began to get better (funnily enough a drug called risperidone that is essentially modeled after a selective 5-HT2A antagonist), but I had to first realize that talking to myself in my head 24/7 was not healthy - imagine that!

The voice in our head is a funny thing. Some people say it's a mistake to identify with the voice in our heads and think that that is "us". They say that we are not really the voice in our heads. But it can take practice with mindfulness to get to a point where we can just observe the inner monologue non-judgementally and non-reactively, to simply just be, rather than actively contribute to the inner monologue.

Implicated in OCD is a node of a circuit called the default mode network, this happens to be a node involved in self-referential processing. This default mode network is associated with disconnecting from the present moment.

Try to stay in the present moment. Not worrying about the future or regretting the past, just paying attention to the raw sensory input of the present - the way your hands feel, all the pins and needles and fuzziness, stare into the back of your eyelids or feel all the sensations of breathing. Use the feeling of breathing as an anchor. Every time you realize you're lost in thought, return your attention to the breath.

Focusing your attention on the raw sensory input of the breath can be frustrating at first, but understand that every time you realize you're lost in thought is a victory, believe it or not.

True, I don't know why I'm being so skeptical and paranoid about the entire thing. For some reason my brain is convinced that it's been damaged, it's so frustrating dude. I hate over-thinking everything and getting anxiety as a result and then attaching that to some possible damage from 25i.

I also get paranoid thought patterns that Dr. Nichols is lying to me just to give me more hope and so he's less liable for any damage that NBOMe's cause. Idk why I get these thoughts when one of the most renowned pharmacologists in the world is telling me that my brain is fine.

I hate getting intrusive thoughts about 25i and just paranoia in general. It's been really taking a toll on my health tbh.. getting fatter, paler skin, lack of sleep etc..

I have to deal with my situation but sometimes I feel like it's if the 25i imposed some sort of OCD in my brain and now I have these obsessive thought patterns and I can't shut down the constant chatter in my brain.

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

In my personal opinion, you simply must start practicing mindfulness while you get yourself some professional help. Mindfulness is pretty much entirely intended to deal with the overactive inner monologue and rumination.

 

[jacktheripper42]

In my personal opinion, you simply must start practicing mindfulness while you get yourself some professional help. Mindfulness is pretty much entirely intended to deal with the overactive inner monologue and rumination.

I'll definitely work on it.

What do you think about this MAPS article discussing phenylethylamine neurotoxicity

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

If you tried to link something it didn't go through

 

[jacktheripper42]

If you tried to link something it didn't go through

http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v04n1/04134pea.html

Sorry about that here you go ^

 

[jacktheripper42]

What's this weird tingly feeling I'm getting in all my extremities, also kind of harder to breathe. Are these just anxiety symptoms? Been finding it hard to fall asleep well these past couple of days.

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah all of those symptoms can be attributes to anxiety.

 

[jacktheripper42]

Cool, that's good to know

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

What's this weird tingly feeling I'm getting in all my extremities, also kind of harder to breathe. Are these just anxiety symptoms? Been finding it hard to fall asleep well these past couple of days.

Yeah that's anxiety, pins and needles occur with hyperventilation, watch your breathing rate - more oxygen is not always better

Mindfulness especially with the breath as an anchor will help with sleep and anxiety. It can also help to listen to your breathing. Try to let the breath come and go naturally though, don't intentionally inhale. Be aware that the proper way to breath is through the diaphragm - this is very different from rib cage/anxiety breathing.

RE the maps article, the concerns with abusing amphetamines and other releasing agents are completely and categorically different from 5-HT2A agonists. There is no concern of neurotoxicity with 5-HT2A agonists. There is a very specific mechanism of neurotoxicity with e.g. meth, and this doesn't apply to direct agonists.

But watch out with the researching man. It seems like it will just give you more material to ruminate about.

 

[jacktheripper42]

Yeah that's anxiety, pins and needles occur with hyperventilation, watch your breathing rate - more oxygen is not always better

Mindfulness especially with the breath as an anchor will help with sleep and anxiety. It can also help to listen to your breathing. Try to let the breath come and go naturally though, don't intentionally inhale. Be aware that the proper way to breath is through the diaphragm - this is very different from rib cage/anxiety breathing.

RE the maps article, the concerns with abusing amphetamines and other releasing agents are completely and categorically different from 5-HT2A agonists. There is no concern of neurotoxicity with 5-HT2A agonists. There is a very specific mechanism of neurotoxicity with e.g. meth, and this doesn't apply to direct agonists.

But watch out with the researching man. It seems like it will just give you more material to ruminate about.

Yeah you're right dude. I'm done with the research and the notion that this substance ever damaged my brain. I sometimes still get anxious about the fact that it has 100 times the potency of LSD at 5HT2a receptors and then the possibility of a halogen even entering the cell membrane due to the sheer potency of the 25i NBOMe at the .04 ki value. I have to work to overcome these thoughts though

 

[jacktheripper42]

Yeah that's anxiety, pins and needles occur with hyperventilation, watch your breathing rate - more oxygen is not always better

Mindfulness especially with the breath as an anchor will help with sleep and anxiety. It can also help to listen to your breathing. Try to let the breath come and go naturally though, don't intentionally inhale. Be aware that the proper way to breath is through the diaphragm - this is very different from rib cage/anxiety breathing.

RE the maps article, the concerns with abusing amphetamines and other releasing agents are completely and categorically different from 5-HT2A agonists. There is no concern of neurotoxicity with 5-HT2A agonists. There is a very specific mechanism of neurotoxicity with e.g. meth, and this doesn't apply to direct agonists.

But watch out with the researching man. It seems like it will just give you more material to ruminate about.

Hey man. Can you explain to me one more thing. How does the relationship between a neuron and receptor work exactly? Why were those people at shroomery talking about a halogen entering your neurons and acting as a catalyst for reactive species? I don't understand the relationship between a neuron and it's respective receptor. When the NBOMe enters the system it attaches to 5HT2a receptors correct? What is the direct relationship between the neurons and etc? Like where are receptors located in relation to the neuron.

My biggest fear is that I've inflicted some sort of permanent damage on these neurons and that they'll never grow again.

 

[Solipsis]

Every neuron (like say braincell) has countless 'tentacles' (axons) connected to other neurons for sending signals, and at each of these interface connections (synapses) there can be many receptors, there are many sorts of receptors, depending on where in the brain I think the type of receptors you will see (expressed) may vary...

Not exactly sure what the shroomery claims were but some talk I read was pretty outlandish, I wouldn't attach too much gravitas too it. https://www.reddit.com/r/Drugs/comments/6clm0l/can_nbome_insert_a_halogen_inside_your_neurons/ I think they are already pointing out (again) how the halogen doesn't just fall off or start behaving like a radical.

Which brings us just right back to how you are worrying over basically anything you can find that is upsetting. Stop looking so hard and get some help with that OCD-ish tendency, no offense. You're starting to sound like a broken record. Your huge fears are constantly shown to be irrational, you're going to have to deal with them in a different way and taking your ideas about brain damage at face value isn't the way. Otherwise soon we'll be at page 10 of this thread and nothing will have changed.

Yes it's insanely potent and I understand that worries you, but understand that your symptoms are all part of a psychological problem and honestly none of that is suggesting that you have harmed your serotonergic system (especially since - as i think cotcha and i agree - damage to 5-HT2a receptors wouldn't likely present as psychological problems anyway). The HPPD / DR and DP problems whatever it is you are suffering from should be seen not as a brain damage thing but as psychological disorders psychedelics may play a role in, but it doesn't really matter if it's LSD or NBOMe's that were involved, I think it may turn out that NBOMe's are a bit more often involved but that's about it.

Logically it doesn't make sense anyway: whether brain damage would even be there or not what you are doing now achieves nothing. Knowing that there is damage would change nothing about your problems. Since you have little reason to keep focussing on this topic, it's sure to be some sort of denial to distract you from the fact that you haven't been feeling well for a while.

Get professional help, but very importantly: start trying to embrace the way you are now and try to adapt to your life, the world you live in. I've personally felt lost and removed from myself, from life, the outside world and reality... but what's unhealthy then is to keep seeing things as 'not how they are supposed to be'. IMO that is the real trap people might keep stuck in for a long time, not the being removed from life part. The reason is that it is a vicious circle (like many others that fuel problems) keeping you detached and dissociated rather than reintegrating.

Start researching trip reintegration instead of vague fringe stuff about receptors and getting super anxious especially since you're not understanding a lot of what is said on message boards etc. Focusing your energy on something constructive like trip reintegration is a sound way of helping yourself.

Now please if you want to continue this thread, take this to heart and come back with a different attitude. For your sake.

 

[jacktheripper42]

Every neuron (like say braincell) has countless 'tentacles' (axons) connected to other neurons for sending signals, and at each of these interface connections (synapses) there can be many receptors, there are many sorts of receptors, depending on where in the brain I think the type of receptors you will see (expressed) may vary...

Not exactly sure what the shroomery claims were but some talk I read was pretty outlandish, I wouldn't attach too much gravitas too it. https://www.reddit.com/r/Drugs/comments/6clm0l/can_nbome_insert_a_halogen_inside_your_neurons/ I think they are already pointing out (again) how the halogen doesn't just fall off or start behaving like a radical.

Which brings us just right back to how you are worrying over basically anything you can find that is upsetting. Stop looking so hard and get some help with that OCD-ish tendency, no offense. You're starting to sound like a broken record. Your huge fears are constantly shown to be irrational, you're going to have to deal with them in a different way and taking your ideas about brain damage at face value isn't the way. Otherwise soon we'll be at page 10 of this thread and nothing will have changed.

Yes it's insanely potent and I understand that worries you, but understand that your symptoms are all part of a psychological problem and honestly none of that is suggesting that you have harmed your serotonergic system (especially since - as i think cotcha and i agree - damage to 5-HT2a receptors wouldn't likely present as psychological problems anyway). The HPPD / DR and DP problems whatever it is you are suffering from should be seen not as a brain damage thing but as psychological disorders psychedelics may play a role in, but it doesn't really matter if it's LSD or NBOMe's that were involved, I think it may turn out that NBOMe's are a bit more often involved but that's about it.

Logically it doesn't make sense anyway: whether brain damage would even be there or not what you are doing now achieves nothing. Knowing that there is damage would change nothing about your problems. Since you have little reason to keep focussing on this topic, it's sure to be some sort of denial to distract you from the fact that you haven't been feeling well for a while.

Get professional help, but very importantly: start trying to embrace the way you are now and try to adapt to your life, the world you live in. I've personally felt lost and removed from myself, from life, the outside world and reality... but what's unhealthy then is to keep seeing things as 'not how they are supposed to be'. IMO that is the real trap people might keep stuck in for a long time, not the being removed from life part. The reason is that it is a vicious circle (like many others that fuel problems) keeping you detached and dissociated rather than reintegrating.

Start researching trip reintegration instead of vague fringe stuff about receptors and getting super anxious especially since you're not understanding a lot of what is said on message boards etc. Focusing your energy on something constructive like trip reintegration is a sound way of helping yourself.

Now please if you want to continue this thread, take this to heart and come back with a different attitude. For your sake.

Yeah it definitely doesn't change anything, but it would give me a tremendous amount of comfort to be 100% certain that I didn't damage my 5ht2a receptors and their respective neurons by using 25i.

Right now I'm fairly anxious and I keep getting worried that it's a result of some physical neuronal/receptor damage that is out of my control. So I know that the receptors are not damaged for sure, are the neurons interacted with at all in the entire process of the ligand entering the brai?

 

[Solipsis]

25I is highly potent in terms of binding to the 5-HT2a receptor - this is one isolated property it has. Any concern of physical damage to the neuron unrelated to that would be both pretty much unrelated and it would suggest something like cytotoxicity or another sort of toxicity like neurotoxicity at completely different receptors which would seem just as likely or unlikely as any other foreign chemical entering your brain that we don't know much about yet. You should conclude that there is no general need to worry.

So no, worries about that would be incredibly biased based on it's potency at 5-HT2a. Which is here sort of a good thing because this potency causes it to require only very small dosages making it exceedingly unlikely that toxic levels for other sorts of toxicities are reached (toxicity is all about dosages / concentrations).

The neuron is interacted with through that 5-HT2a receptor which mediates signals among many other signals and that's pretty much it. So there is no rational basis for making it more of a general worry that it does other crazy, potent or toxic shit.
Main concerns about 25I and the like are rather about how acute toxicity is mediated, like I said this has nothing to do with your case.

I don't know if you have tripped on other psychedelics without problem in the past, but obviously stay away from 25I and all other psychedelics, plus weed, other visually active drugs or drugs in general. But this is rather about your apparent predisposition / sensitivity to any of several issues like HPPD, anxiety disorders or DP/DR - which like I mentioned is psychological, or if HPPD has an organic underlying cause the theory is still that it involves a sensitivity not everyone really has in that severe way.

You say out of your control, but this is a really difficult topic anyway... there is no control involved here, which should be fine basically though, so you are better off not hoping for it too much, apart from controlling whether you take any drugs anymore from this point on.

Anxiety can be horrible, I know from experience and I've been with a woman who had crippling anxiety... but predisposition / sensitivity to it or just developing such a disorder even if it seems rather late in your life somehow.. that can all still happen especially after certain triggers. It's really hard to say what else could have triggered such a thing and to what extent it is also dependent on how much basis for worries you have to fuel that anxiety. Clearly some of the unknowns have blown this into panic for you.
So I am not refuting that 25I could have played a role in triggering things, but it is not necessarily special or toxic that way, even if it is strong. Try to look beyond it with your therapist and expand your vision to try and reflect what is reinforcing it at this point. Treat symptoms and remove factors that are continuously reinforcing it, also work on techniques to relax. For me it has taken years to get some insight into how I can relax and I really need that to counter things that get me worked up.
Some of the reasons why I get worked up I cannot change, so it is really essential that I learn how to relax and to also take the time to do so.

 

[jacktheripper42]

25I is highly potent in terms of binding to the 5-HT2a receptor - this is one isolated property it has. Any concern of physical damage to the neuron unrelated to that would be both pretty much unrelated and it would suggest something like cytotoxicity or another sort of toxicity like neurotoxicity at completely different receptors which would seem just as likely or unlikely as any other foreign chemical entering your brain that we don't know much about yet. You should conclude that there is no general need to worry.

So no, worries about that would be incredibly biased based on it's potency at 5-HT2a. Which is here sort of a good thing because this potency causes it to require only very small dosages making it exceedingly unlikely that toxic levels for other sorts of toxicities are reached (toxicity is all about dosages / concentrations).

The neuron is interacted with through that 5-HT2a receptor which mediates signals among many other signals and that's pretty much it. So there is no rational basis for making it more of a general worry that it does other crazy, potent or toxic shit.
Main concerns about 25I and the like are rather about how acute toxicity is mediated, like I said this has nothing to do with your case.

I don't know if you have tripped on other psychedelics without problem in the past, but obviously stay away from 25I and all other psychedelics, plus weed, other visually active drugs or drugs in general. But this is rather about your apparent predisposition / sensitivity to any of several issues like HPPD, anxiety disorders or DP/DR - which like I mentioned is psychological, or if HPPD has an organic underlying cause the theory is still that it involves a sensitivity not everyone really has in that severe way.

You say out of your control, but this is a really difficult topic anyway... there is no control involved here, which should be fine basically though, so you are better off not hoping for it too much, apart from controlling whether you take any drugs anymore from this point on.

Anxiety can be horrible, I know from experience and I've been with a woman who had crippling anxiety... but predisposition / sensitivity to it or just developing such a disorder even if it seems rather late in your life somehow.. that can all still happen especially after certain triggers. It's really hard to say what else could have triggered such a thing and to what extent it is also dependent on how much basis for worries you have to fuel that anxiety. Clearly some of the unknowns have blown this into panic for you.
So I am not refuting that 25I could have played a role in triggering things, but it is not necessarily special or toxic that way, even if it is strong. Try to look beyond it with your therapist and expand your vision to try and reflect what is reinforcing it at this point. Treat symptoms and remove factors that are continuously reinforcing it, also work on techniques to relax. For me it has taken years to get some insight into how I can relax and I really need that to counter things that get me worked up.
Some of the reasons why I get worked up I cannot change, so it is really essential that I learn how to relax and to also take the time to do so.

So you think there's 0% chance that the neuron that regulates my 5ht2a receptor got damaged by the iodine atom since the affinity is so high for 25i, 16 times the potency of 2ce. Could this make it more susceptible to facing the complications of a halogen entering the neuron due to the extreme potency and the full agonism displayed? That shroomery quote keeps replaying in my mind and bothering me. I don't want neuronal damage all over my brain as a result of a halogen being inserted into all these neurons.

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

We can sit here and lay to rest specific concerns but I think you need to take a step back and realize that you got your symptoms after researching, therefore it was *thinking* that got you into this mess, and it won't really be thinking that gets you out of it.

It wouldn't have made a difference if you took a synthetic 5-HT2A agonist or magic mushrooms, or another class of drugs entirely.

You said earlier that you've previously had problems with obsessing as well.