• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | thegreenhand

Question about different meths

Meth made from pseudo is pure D-methamphetamine, the best enantiomer. Meth made via reductive amination of p2p is 50/50 D/L meth....they both will test as 100 percent pure meth. the effects will vary greatly between the two batches
 
The final appearance of the two examples above could be very different, no tests needed.

Things assumed so far or to be looked up:
IS suda-fed always one isomer? Most of our medicines are mixtures.

Does racemic meth crystallize at all? Not all racemates will form crystals.

Could we be looking at a conglomerate instead of crystals? Would ruin my "glue" theory somewhat, but it's what you have with granite or a crack nugget.

Does anyone ever make "shake'n'bake" meth with walmart supplies that is actually methamphetamine, that is sold in any quantity?

What product do the cartels actually produce? Why am I funding cartels? (Do the cartels have anything to do with this?)
 
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Racemic meth does crystallize.

But Bluelight has a few entries that say racemic meth does NOT crystallize.

Shulgin's site, credited to his own words (from 2005 I think) claims it can NOT be crystallized, and any racemic meth appears as a white powder. Of course, he's crystallized so many derivatives, maybe he doesn't remember/got it confused. Still not 100%.

Implications if true are the stuff I and most US users buy on the street is the single-isomer form. And ugly as they are for "crystals", even when I'm not strung out, I don't see how you can get as much transparency as you do without it being a legitimate crystal. It has cleavage planes that seem to say it's not amorphous. There are lots of imperfections that don't align with the cleavage planes. Unresolved isomer residuals? Or the cutting agent goo that somehow turns to a brown oil smear with enough heating?

Confusion over what's in your bowl/brain is the foundation of all the crazy drug lore out there, so I just want to get at least that down, not read the spirals in my "crack-back".
With that I'll take my notes elsewhere, sorry.
 
bump.

But Bluelight has a few entries that say racemic meth does NOT crystallize.

I would really wonder too.

Is it possible to have racemic meth crystals or not?
I mean you can also make racemic MDMA crystals by recrystallization.
 
The only thing I could see affecting your product is unreacted ephedrine/whatevers used in synth, which I believe I've had once before.
Other than that, there are differences in viscosity, melting/freezing point, and heat tolerance. The meth high itself is fairly consistent given you've been consistent with your sleep and nutrition.
I have found some gear will give me a boner after a good hit, whereas others won't, but I'm assuming that's just the levels of circulating hormones and catecholamines in my system before ingesting meth.
 
Set and setting applies to any drug, including stims. Therefore, you likely "feel different" while you're high on the meth due to whatever is going on in your life at the time. This could cause you to take the same drug one day and feel aggressive or paranoid whereas you feel euphoric the next. In addition, there can be impurities in meth (e.g. some batches may contain primarily meth but also contain non-methylated amphetamine or another type of stimulant), this could cause differences in the effect of different batches. Furthermore, d-meth tends to be euphoric and cause more mental effects. However, l-meth causes more of a body load. Therefore, the ratio of d-meth to l-meth will influence the effects. Of course, even if your batch were 100% d-meth, you will experience different emotions and sensations on different times taking it simply due to changes in your mindset.
 
My friend and I got a bag that made me want to work and move and talk fast.,the last batch I just sat in a chair quietly and looked at the security monitor, scared to go outside, but flying in euphoria.



lol hate, hate, hate. but true
 
Sekio, while I agree totally about set and setting, I have to call bullshit on the statement that it makes no difference what isomers are present. 100% laevo-meth is even OTC in the US (or at least it was, don't know if it still is), isn't it?

If I were to acclimatize you, knowingly, taking breaks to exclude tolerance and neurotransmitter depletion to equal doses by weight of unadulterated D-meth, to L-meth and to the 50-50 racemate, and after you had been thoroughly familiarized with the effects of each, and then I were to give you a double-blind few doses, again separated in time to exclude tolerance and neurotransmitter depletion, that you would be unable, whilst in the same spatial area, and in as similar a mindset as possible, to discriminate between them? I'd bet money that at the very least you'd be able to discriminate between D- and L-meth, and I'd be pretty sure that you'd be able to tell the racemate apart (and thats when it had been thoroughly recrystallized and solvent-washed to remove any trace of the phenylacetone I'd have used to prepare the racemic meth, if this experiment were carried out IRL so you'd be unable to tell it apart by means of the odour of P2P, as delightful as it is, it'd still be a giveaway if left in there)

But for the sake of theorizing, just assume that each of the three were given in equal weight, and that I had made it myself, so as to guarantee it were to be uncut, and after repeated trituration of the HCl salt under dichloromethane or chloroform, carbon tet, etc. etc. to remove the traces of P2P, purified to pharmaceutical grade.

Hell, just compare the transporter affinities for D- and L-meth for NET, DAT, VMAT and perhaps affinity and efficacy at TAAR1. Radioligands are not susceptible to the placebo effect as far as I know, they don't decide 'hey, I'm going to decay at twice my usual rate because I'm in a shitty mood and the dog just crapped all over my lawn'=D
 
Ive had bad batches before and they were caused either by different chemicals, the cut and the cooking process eg. it hadn?t gone through the proper process to finalise the batch, this caused it to be a very perfume taste and was gross. With the cut my body broke out and I had extreme discolouration all over my skin and I was extremely scattery and anxious, probably the worst experience I?ve had.
 
Well it makes sense that badly made meth will be bad for the body and cause nasty side effects.

And depending on the synthetic route there are different potentials for byproducts. With an iodine or HI+red phosphorus cook there could be iodoephedrine left unreduced. Excessive heating in this method can also produce the corresponding aziridine, although this would be rearranged back to meth at such temperatures or we would know about it, because aziridines are real nasty customers generally, and are highly toxic.

With the Birch route (Li or Na in anhydrous ammonia) there are less impurities, if the correct quantity of Li is used then it'll be clean as long as the solvents aren't left in by some lazy tosser, and as long as the pseudo or ephedrine used is of good quality, it'll be clean. The primary byproduct would be if too much Li is added, this can overreduce the PSE/eph, the Birch-Benkeser (the true Birch employs sodium rather than Li, but clandestine cooks typically gut batteries for Li metal because its easier for them than making sodium or buying it so they often use the Benkeser modification of the Birch. Sodium metal is actually preferable, for reducing PSE or eph to meth, because it is a less aggressive reductant than Li, and won't overreduce the precursor)

Li can however, it can reduce the phenyl ring, either to the cyclohexadiene, although I don't know if this will make it into the product, or it can even reduce the phenyl ring all the way to a cyclohexane ring, which would give propylhexedrine rather than meth. The certain byproduct, the alkali metal amide (lithium amide or sodamide depending which metal is used) cannot appear in the product because these powerful bases are unstable to water, reacting violently if H2O be added too quickly. Li salts could conceivably wind up in there; but only if the cook is the absolute pits when it comes to making...well...if they are that bad I wouldn't trust the bugger to bake cookies, never mind handle anhydrous ammonia.
 
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