Need some advice on polishing my cycle and HCG usage

T

Thang

Greenlighter
Joined
May 1, 2017
Messages
8
Hello everyone
I have been lurking these forums and others for years now and I have researched quite a bit to form a cycle that suits me.
I am 25 soon to be 26, and have been lifting for 6 years. I already did one cycle when I was almost 23, recovered fine after 3 weeks pct of nolva, clomid and aromasin. Did pre and post bloods, test was the same if not even a bit higher a year after pct.
The cycle was 8 week 100mg test prop eod, with aromasin 12.5 e3d I think.
I am 6 feet and right now cutting from 205 lbs where I was around 15% bf to 190lbs hopefully getting to 10%ish body fat before starting the cycle in a month or so.
This time I am planning on doing a 8-10 week test prop with anavar cycle with the same AI and pct compounds. PCT, AI and prop are all pharma, var is ugl. I am planning for this to be a lean bulk cycle and hopefully help me heal a few issues with the joints. Will do bloods pre and post.
I have a few questions regarding the cycle.

  1. I am thinking of doing 150mg test prop eod with 40mg var for starting dosage and then adjusting according to the strength of the var, for 6 weeks. Would I be better off with 150mg or 100mg of test prop for gaining, do you believe in dosages adversely affecting recovery ( for example a higher dosage causing a stronger suppression of natural test production)?
  2. Should I extend it to 10 weeks or will there be diminishing returns with prop.
  3. The biggest thing that I need help with is the HCG, I want an even smoother recovery if possible compared to the last time and preserve the leyding cells the best way possible while on cycle, but don’t want to damage the gonads with HCG, I will avoid HCG if it is not possible to avoid damage from it since there are mixed opinions on its usage. I am thinking of using pharm grade HCG at 300-500IU eod on cycle to maintain gonad function, and I am not really that well informed as far as possible side effects go. I know it is recommended to take nolva with it to counter the estrogen that may damage the leyding cells. What do you guys think about it? I will also be using taurine on cycle.
So the cycle will be:
- 1-8/10 week 150mg test prop
- 1-6 week 40 mg (depending on the strength) of var
- Aromasin 12.5mg e3d or maybe 6.25mg eod?
- HCG 300-500IU eod/e3d on cycle? With nolva?

PCT

  • 50/25/25/25 clomid
  • 40/20/20/20 nolva
  • 6.25mg or 12.5mg eod Aromasin

Thanks for the advice and any corrections to my plans, I really appreciate it.
 
Welcome to BL mate.

Prop and var should be good. 10 weeks is also fine.

I'd recommend you start out low and taper up doses of both throughout the cycle for maximal effect.

There are two discussions where we've touched on the subject recently, I recommend you read to understand what this is about:

>>Here<<
>>Here<<

And also in general about why tapering up is a good idea, have a read >>here<<

You don't need to use HCG, it's not likely to prevent damage from AAS on cycle, it will simply stop your testes from shrinking. A 5g dose of taurine and/or other decent antioxidants like ashwaghanda, bioavailable curcumin, NAC should help reduce harm if used during-cycle though.

PCT is also optional, you're not likely to have secondary hypogonadism from a moderate cycle, so LH/FSH will recover quickly anyway. As for aromasin, I would probably use 12.5mg eod, depending on how low it takes your E2. Some is good, too much causes oxidative/recovery damage.
 
I read all your posts that you linked and it makes perfect sense tbh, especially concerning the homeostasis. A lot of people seem to be impatient and want the results as fast as possible which backfires on them. I will read up on the ashwagandha and other antioxidants.
So regarding the tapering, I was thinking of doing the cycle like this then:


  1. 50mg test eod
  2. 75mg test eod, Aromasin 6.25 eod
  3. 100mg test eod, Aromasin 12.5 eod
  4. 100mg test eod, 20 mg var ed, Aromasin 12.5 eod
  5. 100mg test eod, 40 mg var ed ( suggesting this will be the peak dosage of var and that the var will be legit), Aromasin 12.5 eod
  6. 125mg test eod, 40 mg var ed, Aromasin 12.5 eod
  7. 150mg test eod, 40mg var ed, Aromasin 12.5 eod
  8. 150mg test eod,40mg var ed, Aromasin 12.5 eod
  9. 150mg test eod, 40mg var ed, Aromasin 12.5 eod
  10. 75mg test eod, 20mg var ed, Aromasin 12.5 eod

Will do bloods 5 weeks in to check estro, and probably around 7/8 too and adjust AI accordingly.

PCT 3 days after last pin

Is 50 mg of prop too low to start, would I be better off to start with week 2?

Should I taper down the last week of the cycle aswell, if so, why?

Thanks for the help
 
It makes sense what they say about homeostasis. I've been approaching dieting and training (volume) like that for a while.

I think the other danger of kickstarting is injury. Muscles will grow faster than tendons, connective tissue and such, so if you have a huge jump in strength a week in and jump 30lbs on your compounds and really want to push it, you can sabotage the cycle with an early injury. I also understand that some guys want to kickstart because they don't want to wait a month to figure out if their gear is legit.

I have taken ashwagandha before to treat adrenal fatigue and honestly cannot say that I noticed anything from it. I read about guys saying a certain dose is "too much" and another being the "sweet spot," so I don't know if it just does not affect me as much or whatever.
 
You're starting off with more than you need. Go low at the start, and build up gradually, then taper off to reduce the risk of crashing. Your natural production is probably 20-30mg/wk, and starting at 50mg eod is about 700% more than that. You also wouldn't need to inject as often with enanthate, what made you pick prop?

Anyway try something more like this:

  1. 25mg test eod, Aromasin 6.25 eod
  2. 25mg test eod, 10mg var, Aromasin 6.25 eod
  3. 50mg test eod, 10mg var, Aromasin 6.25 eod
  4. 50mg test eod, 20 mg var, Aromasin 6.25 eod
  5. 75mg test eod, 20 mg var ed, Aromasin 12.5 eod
  6. 75mg test eod, 30 mg var ed, Aromasin 12.5 eod
  7. 100mg test eod, 30mg var ed, Aromasin 12.5 eod
  8. 100mg test eod, 40mg var ed, Aromasin 12.5 eod
  9. 125mg test eod, 40mg var ed, Aromasin 12.5 eod
  10. 125mg test eod, 50mg var ed, Aromasin 12.5 eod
  11. 12.5mg test eod, Aromasin 12.5 eod
  12. 12.5mg test eod, Aromasin 12.5 eod
  13. Aromasin 6.25 eod
  14. Aromasin 6.25 eod

You don't really need a PCT at this point. If you check your LH/FSH levels at this point, you'll probably find them at normal/above-normal range.
 
RedLeader said:
I have taken ashwagandha before to treat adrenal fatigue and honestly cannot say that I noticed anything from it. I read about guys saying a certain dose is "too much" and another being the "sweet spot," so I don't know if it just does not affect me as much or whatever.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm just giving it as an anti-oxidant/mildly cortisol suppressing option for AAS really. Most use taurine or NAC to protect the testes.
 
Well this really is some unconventional stuff I have to say. Do you reckon the gains will be better on this kind of a cycle, guess I am a bit reserved concerning the mgs because most people on forums push higher dosages.

You do have to take into consideration the weight of the ester which is 20% with prop so with 25mgs you get 20 mgs of test, and since the body produces 4-7mgs per day of natty test and my bloods put me into mid high range I guess I am at lets say 6mgs which means 42mgs per week. And 25mgs eod then puts me at 75mgs of free test without the ester, which does seem a low increase to me, but I get your point, it still is an increase and it keeps going up gradually which leads to the body never truly adapting and the gains keep coming. I will most likely try this dosing regiment.

As far as choosing the ester, I went with prop because its effects can be felt faster and I can have a shorter cycle which means a shorter time on and less suppression. This in my mind means less of a chance of damage to the HPTA. For example a 10 week test E cycle vs 10 week test prop cycle will lead to better gains with prop if diet, training and dosage is the same.

I don’t mind the pinning that much so its not that big of a problem.

I read that old school bodybuilders used to taper off when there were no PCT drugs available. What kind of place do you see for PCT after cycles CFC? I am aware that Aromasin stimulates test production so it’s a test booster itself, and can be used as a mild recovery tool i guess.
 
Thang said:
Well this really is some unconventional stuff I have to say. Do you reckon the gains will be better on this kind of a cycle, guess I am a bit reserved concerning the mgs because most people on forums push higher dosages.
Click to expand...

Yes, it's unconventional. If convention is merely repetition of ignorance, we aren't in favour of that. The First Cycle sticky above does give a much more 'conventional' flat cycle of 250mg/wk for 10 weeks if you want conventional.

I'm not going to write repeatedly why I'm not in favour of higher doses because I've written ad nauseum on it here and I think everyone is sick of me droning on lol. The article on why not to frontload should make it pretty obvious why at least starting as low as possible is ideal.

But I also hope you've taken the time to read some of the harms threads in our Study Corner before you even considered starting a cycle? The lower the dose, the lower the side-effect profile vs gains. In other words, you can gain very well, but with far fewer harms.

As for prop = feeling the effects faster, that's not really how it works. Even with an enanthate ester, release peaks within 24 hours. But more to the point, you don't want to feel it faster. You want things to go slowly and build up, not kick in 100% from the first minute. And to reduce HPTA harm, you want stick to lower doses. Duration (within reason) isn't as critical as peak dose when it comes to harm. But anyway prop's a perfectly fine choice, it's just an odd choice for a beginner. I personally prefer as few injects as possible.

As for PCT, as I've said in those threads I linked, and elsewhere, there's no great need for PCT on low-dose cycles because most who are cautious don't develop secondary hypogonadism.

Typical PCT drugs increase LH/FSH release (temporarily). As soon as you stop, your levels will fall again (if you have secondary hypogonadism). If you have primary hypogonadism, your LH/FSH levels will rise naturally and rapidly as soon as your cycle stops, making the use of most PCT drugs somewhat illogical.

So either way, there's not a great need for them unless you're permanently fucked and intend to use them continuously until your next cycle. The best thing to do is taper off slowly, allow the body to adjust, and thus reduce the risk of losing all your new muscle as you come off. That makes your post-cycle test levels and complete recovery less critical.
 
Thank you for the explanations. I will research more before beginning the cycle and read upon the study corner which I seem to have missed before.
 
I think the most important thing to bear in mind is that no one can guarantee you'll recover fully. You probably will, especially if you're conservative, but lots of guys don't. So it's all 'at your own risk' stuff. And there are plenty of potential health risks that don't usually get discussed on other forums, though again low dose/conservative brings the risk down considerably. Still useful knowledge to be armed with before you go on though.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top