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Jesus seems to hate some things. Do you? Is hate good?

Gnostic Bishop

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Jesus seems to hate some things. Do you? Is hate good?

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came notto send peace, but a sword.

Jesus seems to be saying that he is promoting division andwar with a number of his sayings that pit father against son and brotheragainst brother.

Jesus advocated division, war and hate; even as some thinkhe preached to love our enemies.

Did Jesus hate and is hate thus a good character trait?

Regards
DL
 
Are you referring to God and stories like Kane and Abel?

Jesus is new testament dude. :|


You do realise that these stories in the bible are filled with hidden messages of how you should behave and live to have a decent life and what can happen if you dont.

God can be vengeful in exerpts of the bible and in particular Exodus.

No ones perfect. Not even God.
 
Why do you always just copy and paste stuff and never actually contribute anything of your own, or often even reply in your own threads? It's not against the rules but I think I can speak for everyone here when I say it's annoying and it never generates you much discussion.
 
Haha I love how this is delving into the mind of a child scientist.
"Some bad things were said -- do you REALLY believe said things".

When I hear atheists speak it's like watching someone move their mouth when they read. If I were to reverse this thread:
"Scientists make facts"
"Facts = True"
"Do you believe facts are true?"
"Are facts good?"
 
Sources and citations?

I gave the wording Jesus used in the O.P.

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."

Google it and have fun.



examples?

How about evil. That should do unless you think Jesus did not hate evil.

alasdair



Are you referring to God and stories like Kane and Abel?

Jesus is new testament dude. :|


You do realise that these stories in the bible are filled with hidden messages of how you should behave and live to have a decent life and what can happen if you dont.

God can be vengeful in exerpts of the bible and in particular Exodus.

No ones perfect. Not even God.

True and I take you think he hates as vengeance is hate driven.

Why do you always just copy and paste stuff and never actually contribute anything of your own, or often even reply in your own threads? It's not against the rules but I think I can speak for everyone here when I say it's annoying and it never generates you much discussion.

I am a busy guy and the mods here close some of what I put.

I would be by more often but the notification thing does not work.

Have you heard Trump being called a Whinny Little Bitch.

Regards
DL
 
The book of Matthew is full of symbolism amd it reads like it was lost in translation at a few points.

I suggest a bible studies class as taking things literally results in thought processes such as this.
 
i am misquoted here.

i never said anything about jesus hating evil.

alasdair

Oops. I thought you wanted an example.

The book of Matthew is full of symbolism amd it reads like it was lost in translation at a few points.

I suggest a bible studies class as taking things literally results in thought processes such as this.

I agree but all Christians are literalist readers to some extent. If they were not, they would not believe in a literal Jesus.

I go after the majority as they are the ones doing the damage to society.
Both Christianity and Islam have basically developed intointolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grownthemselves by the sword instead of good deeds.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works anddeeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as hispeople, and neither do I.

Regards
DL
 
I actually agree with the last part of what you just said. If Jesus was real (and it seems to me there probably was a person originally the religious idea of Jesus was based on), he would be appalled at what's been done in his name, and the way the religion is now. My feeling is he wasn't trying to start a religion, he was trying to get rid of it. I understand the frustration with this, and the anger, I feel it too. However, I feel like your approach to it is just raging back at it, the pendulum will just keep swinging back and forth and never settle in the middle unless we can start to just forget about pointing the finger and see everyone as an individual person, because hate breeds hate. If you respond to hate with hate, then the hate never ends. Grouping people together and considering them all to be a certain way is how we get the us vs them mentality that keeps us from growing up as a species. I have no idea how to solve the problem but being antagonistic about it online and trying to spread a negative rhetoric across the Internet seems counterproductive to me.

Have you heard Trump being called a Whinny Little Bitch.

I was just pointing out why you don't tend to get a lot of replies. It has the feel of spam.
 
Oops. I thought you wanted an example.
i asked for examples (plural) but your quote misrepresents what i said. you've added something to it that i never wrote.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works anddeeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as hispeople, and neither do I.
that doesn't make any sense at all. sure he'd recognise people by their works - regardless of whether they were christian or muslim.

alasdair
 
I actually agree with the last part of what you just said. If Jesus was real (and it seems to me there probably was a person originally the religious idea of Jesus was based on), he would be appalled at what's been done in his name, and the way the religion is now. My feeling is he wasn't trying to start a religion, he was trying to get rid of it. I understand the frustration with this, and the anger, I feel it too. However, I feel like your approach to it is just raging back at it, the pendulum will just keep swinging back and forth and never settle in the middle unless we can start to just forget about pointing the finger and see everyone as an individual person, because hate breeds hate. If you respond to hate with hate, then the hate never ends. Grouping people together and considering them all to be a certain way is how we get the us vs them mentality that keeps us from growing up as a species. I have no idea how to solve the problem but being antagonistic about it online and trying to spread a negative rhetoric across the Internet seems counterproductive to me.



I was just pointing out why you don't tend to get a lot of replies. It has the feel of spam.

You are correct in that Jesus wanted to rid man's slavery to religions and their immoral Gods.

As to my methods, I would love it if those who need correcting too it the way I mean it, in terms of these two quotes.
Gen 3:2 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become asone of us, to know good and evil:
Romans 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil withgood.

Fact is that the left leaning theists will take those quote to heart and likely leave their religions.

The right wing does not look at correction as loving and usually hide behind their faith shields and will not look at the moral aspects of what they believe as they do not care about their moral sense and only care about the rewards they think they will gain by keeping their head firmly up their God's anal orifice.


i asked for examples (plural) but your quote misrepresents what i said. you've added something to it that i never wrote.

Yet you did not speak of the example I gave.

that doesn't make any sense at all. sure he'd recognise people by their works - regardless of whether they were christian or muslim.

alasdair

Yes but he would not accept the Christians of today as his people as they are intolerant, homophobic and misogynous and have grown by the sword instead of good deeds.

Regards
DL
 
^ you're adding your response to the original quote. it's extremely confusing.

i think jesus hating evil is in line with his philosophy on love. are you suggesting that his hate of evil is evidence that he hates many things? if so, can you give some more examples (plural)?

"...the Christians of today...as they are intolerant, homophobic and misogynous and have grown by the sword instead of good deeds"

that is such a gross generalisation as to be pretty much worthless.

alasdair
 
^ you're adding your response to the original quote. it's extremely confusing.

i think jesus hating evil is in line with his philosophy on love. are you suggesting that his hate of evil is evidence that he hates many things? if so, can you give some more examples (plural)?

"...the Christians of today...as they are intolerant, homophobic and misogynous and have grown by the sword instead of good deeds"

that is such a gross generalisation as to be pretty much worthless.

alasdair

If I need to put examples to what I put, then the one reading it has no clue as to how Christianity and Islam are and would hopefully ask for clarification as you seem to be doing.

We know that the Suffergets blamed the church and it's misogynous doctrines for slowing their march to the vote.

Laws in Christian countries against gays have only recently began to be repealed.

As to intolerance, try putting a few rank and file Christians and Muslims in the same room and see just how long it takes for a fight to break out.

Regards
DL
 
you claimed that "Jesus seems to hate some things".

i asked you to back up your claim with a few examples. you've provided one example. can you provide some more examples?

alasdair
 
CD: indicates my personal interpretation and italics are my emphasis. Please don't assume this post is indicative of my beliefs. Enjoy! :)

Jesus is described as hating wickedness once in the Bible. There is no other mention of him hating anything else. He was also described as being angry on two occasions, which I include because they are against the corruption of the church and both lead to his crucifixion.

References to the LORD [sic] hating evil in various forms in the Old Testament are a source of confusion. The use of all capital letters indicate the replacement of God's Hebrew name, YHWH, in the translation process.

Jesus Hates Wickedness (Only Verse)

Hebrews 1:8-9 (KJV)
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

---------
CD: For the nitpicker: The controversy about Revelations 2:6, which you can look up, is solved for me by Revelations 1:1, indicating it is the word of God. A distinction is made between Jesus Christ and God, for which presumably is there for a reason.
--------------

Jesus Teachings about Anger

Matthew 5:22-24 (PHILLIPS, see footnote)
22 But I say to you that anyone who is angry with his brother or sister for no reason must stand trial; anyone who contemptuously calls his brother or sister a fool [Raca, that is, a word of scorn] must face the supreme court [Sanhedrin]; and anyone who looks on his brother or sister as a lost soul [Impious, fool, that is, a word of despising] is heading straight for the fire of destruction.

23 So that if, while you are offering your gift at the altar, you should remember that your brother has something against you,

24 you must leave your gift there before the altar and go away. Make your peace with your brother first, then come and offer your gift.

Notes:
• Brother or sister: The Greek word adelphoi can mean "fellow Christian believers" or "biological male siblings", or "siblings" (including females, often written as "brothers and sisters"). I use and leave open the question as to whether it refers to fellow Christians or all people.
• This particular passage has a fairly broad set of interpretations. Insertions in brackets come from the King James Version, the Jubilee Version and the Wycliffe Version of the Bible.

The Two Times Jesus Was Angry
The times Jesus was angry are traditionally cited as examples of "righteous anger" at the corruption of the church.
They are considered righteous- and not of sin- because neither were examples of personal anger nor did Jesus become an embittered person who was consumed by protracted anger.
**Interestingly, both contributed to the culmination of his crucifixion (Mark 11:18, Mark 3:6 below).

1. The Cleansing of the Temple, reported in John 2:13-17, Matthew 21:12-13, Mark 11:15-18, Luke 19:45-46:

Mark 11:15-18 (KJV)
15 And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves;

16 And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple.

17 And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.

18 And the scribes and chief priests heard it, and sought how they might destroy him: for they feared him, because all the people was astonished at his doctrine.**

2. Jesus and the Pharisees at the synagogue of Capernaum

Mark 3:1-6 (KJV)
1 And he entered again into the synagogue; and there was a man there which had a withered hand.

2 And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.

3 And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth.

4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.

5 And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.

6 And the Pharisees went forth, and straightway took counsel with the Herodians against him, how they might destroy him.**
---------------------------------------

Jesus Teachings about "Hate" (Only Verse)

Luke 14:26 (KJV)
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

One common interpretation of this verse is that the word "hate" (miseo in Greek) takes on a milder meaning in this passage, in that Jesus is simply emphasizing how important it is to put Christianity before all earthly ties, to love all others less.

A more conservative viewpoint is that a true believer must reject close, influential relationships with all people, including family members, who do not share their Christian faith. The reasoning behind this interpretation is that people who are not Christians do not strengthen faith and might weaken it, intentionally or not.

The Context of the Metaphorical Sword

Matthew 10:32-37 (KJV)
32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.


Context and passages below indicate that the metaphorical sword divides between the truly faithful and nonbelievers, with the difference being eternity in heaven or hell. The "Prince of Peace" (Isaiah 9:6) is not represented as a proponent of war.

Matthew 19:29-30 (KJV)
28 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

2 Corinthians 6:14-18 (KJV)
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols?
for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

CD: My personal interpretation regarding the use of the word "hate" and calls in Scripture to reject nonbelievers is that they represent both the expectation that faith in Jesus Christ will be a firm, steadfast stronghold against temptation and that fellowship with other believers is an important part of maintaining faith. Also, faith must surpass love of anyone or anything earthly, even one's own life.

In other words, as a Christian believer, one should strive to make decisions consistent with Christian tenets each time, regardless of consequence - even death.

I believe that the message of the verses above is very stringent. To live a Christian life is a constant commitment.
Essentially, I don't want to dilute the pointed use of the word "hate".

tl;dr :D
1. Jesus Christ was angry twice. He is described only once as hating something (iniquity) in the Bible (196 English versions of it, at least).
2. God is described more frequently as hating things that are evil such as pride and false worship.
3. The instructions that Jesus Christ gave to his followers to "hate" family members and otherwise rebuke all earthly relationships is open to interpretation in its extremity.
 
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Thanks for that detailed post, very thorough. :) It really strikes me the relevance of Jesus' sayings in today's world, as it applies to not only culture at large, but Christianity the institution itself.
 
^ i agree to an extent.

it also does nothing to substantiate gnostic bishop's original claim that "Jesus seems to hate some things" :\

alasdair
 
^ true it does not :) alasdairm
Xoroth: I know it's a lot! :D And I was struck by the same sense as well.
 
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