Facing discrimination being in recovery on methadone.

[elvis_wears_nikes]

I feel like a rant is coming on and I need to vent my emotions on this issue. I am addict in recovery albeit stable on methadone maintainance and I am trying to get my life back on track. I am engaging with addiction services and have undertakien many courses and training provided by the service with the goal to help me recover and get back to employment eventually. Throughout my addiction I burnt many bridges and I disconnected myself from many different areas of my life: relationships, friends, family, employment and society. I know that addiction is like being trapped in a cell where the key is on the inside. I feel like an important part of my recovery and staying sober is to try and reconnect myself thereby giving myself purpose and a reason to stay 'clean'.

I am on methadone and I know that that can be a contentious issue but it has allowed me to regain stability and I have stopped using my DOCs - crack and heroin. This, in turn, has helped me regain relationships with my friends and family, my health has improved, I have stopped committing crimes to fund my habit and overall my life has improved significantly. I was also on a benzo script and I have managed to titrate and slowly withdraw from the diazepam completely but this took a great deal of my mental health and, although it has been months since I have stop taking benzos, I don't feel like I have reached my baseline in terms of experienced anxiety and depression.

The next obvious goal for me would be to regain employment, starting off volunteering, and I would like to work within drug and alcohol services as I feel like my personal experience would be able to help others who have also suffered from addiction. Unfortunately, I have been turned away and adviced to reapply when I was off of methadone. I do not by any means feel ready to reduce my methadone dose as I feel like I need more stability and reconnection in my life and volunteering would provide me with that purpose and reason to get out of bed everyday. I know that if I attempted to withdraw from methadone now I would relapse.

So right now I feel stuck and frustrated as I don't think that being on a medication that has been prescribed by a doctor and does not impair me in any way should hinder me from trying to regain back my life. I feel disappointed and a bit hopeless. I do know that some people are able to work on methadone and some jobs allow that but my background is that I used to be a registered nurse and I enjoyed my job so I would like to do something similar and feel that volunteering in drug and alcohol services would be a good start as I have been out of employment for a while. I want to be able to use my knowledge and skills that I worked so hard to attain.... Doing a completely different job or vocation does not make any sense and I want to continue doing what I used to enjoy. Has anyone else experienced this issue or similar? Rant over but it feels good getting this off my chest!

Peace and love.

 

[simco]

I hope the rant helped (though it was pretty mild by rant standards) .

Forgive my lack of knowledge of how this stuff works in the UK, but is it the case that your being on methadone is an issue due to your wanting to work in addiction services? Typically I would assume that what legal medication you're on would not be the business of employers. Obviously in this case I'd be wrong, though. But if you *were* to apply for a different kind of job, could that one data point (i.e. That you take methadone) remain confidential?

While I am very sorry to hear about your experience--stigmatizing people on ORT is one of the last highly acceptable prejudices in European and American cultures--I hope you can feel proud of how well you're doing. It sounds like you've come a really long way.

Congratulations on that!

Sim

 

[cj]

It's best to just not disclose being on methadone if you want to work at a 12 step based rehab. It's not a question they are legally allowed to ask. When you go for pre employment drug screen tell them you are prescribed methadone and they have a process to verify that. Unfortunately it's a very insular industry in many ways and if you have outed yourself it may be too late to recover your reputation in the area.

I suggest you apply at homeless shelters and other non profits that aren't as tied to 12 step methadology then keep your mouth closed on the issue. After all what your doctor prescribes is no one's business.

It's a bullshit situation though and it harms clients. Methadone has a success rate much higher then the abstinence only crap they push for opiate addiction. If you really want a decent job I'm the industry I suggest you get a 4 year degree while working in the industry so you can get a feel for where you wanna work.

 

[elvis_wears_nikes]

Thanks for your reply

You are right.... If addiction is (and should be) regarded as a chronic condition and I am taking medication for that condition then being turned down for that reason does constitute discrimination in UK law. And having experienced that by a service where I would imagine that people would have a lot more knowledge and awareness on the issue and less stigma... but that was not so and it left me feeling disheartened.

For most applications for jobs in the UK they have a section on Equal Opportunities (age, race, sexual orientation and identity, religion, disability... that you don't have to answer if you don't want to) and that information is kept confidential and away from the employer to stop people being rejected on grounds of discrimination before the interview process. If someone has a disability that is obvious then the employer is obligated to make reasonable adjustments if possible otherwise they could be considered to be descriminating that individual.

I can see that common sense suggests that some jobs are obviously unsuitable for individual with an impairment. But in most jobs I would not be asked about the medication I am taking or even my medical history unless it is for obvious roles that involve driving or operating machinery. Nursing and medicine have a separe department 'occupational health' and that is a lot more detailed which I can complete understand the rationale for... but even that information is kept confidential and away from the employer unless there are specific reasons for disclosure. The service I spoke to straight up asked me if I was on Methadone and then proceeded to ask me what dose I was on (wtf) then she sighed and told me that I needed to be abstinent for at least 12 months! Why make me feel like crap?!

Surely someone who has been a service user and has personal experience of addiction and treatment would be a good candidate for that role. For someone who uses methadone as it is prescribed and is not abusing other opiates... I can function normally on methadone and I feel the same as I do before taking it than I do after taking it. It does not make any sense to me! The way I see it is the system that is supposed to be helping me is keeping me from working and ultimately recovery.

Thank you for your kind words guy. I'll take your advice on the issue

 

[Captain.Heroin]

They really frown a tantrum Use in CADC - my 2 cents, choose another line of work.

 

[cj]

Thanks for your reply

You are right.... If addiction is (and should be) regarded as a chronic condition and I am taking medication for that condition then being turned down for that reason does constitute discrimination in UK law. And having experienced that by a service where I would imagine that people would have a lot more knowledge and awareness on the issue and less stigma... but that was not so and it left me feeling disheartened.

For most applications for jobs in the UK they have a section on Equal Opportunities (age, race, sexual orientation and identity, religion, disability... that you don't have to answer if you don't want to) and that information is kept confidential and away from the employer to stop people being rejected on grounds of discrimination before the interview process. If someone has a disability that is obvious then the employer is obligated to make reasonable adjustments if possible otherwise they could be considered to be descriminating that individual.

I can see that common sense suggests that some jobs are obviously unsuitable for individual with an impairment. But in most jobs I would not be asked about the medication I am taking or even my medical history unless it is for obvious roles that involve driving or operating machinery. Nursing and medicine have a separe department 'occupational health' and that is a lot more detailed which I can complete understand the rationale for... but even that information is kept confidential and away from the employer unless there are specific reasons for disclosure. The service I spoke to straight up asked me if I was on Methadone and then proceeded to ask me what dose I was on (wtf) then she sighed and told me that I needed to be abstinent for at least 12 months! Why make me feel like crap?!

Surely someone who has been a service user and has personal experience of addiction and treatment would be a good candidate for that role. For someone who uses methadone as it is prescribed and is not abusing other opiates... I can function normally on methadone and I feel the same as I do before taking it than I do after taking it. It does not make any sense to me! The way I see it is the system that is supposed to be helping me is keeping me from working and ultimately recovery.

Thank you for your kind words guy. I'll take your advice on the issue

Your right but your dealing with irrational people. Methadone has been demonized since the birth of for profit drug treatment because it's a direct threat to there business model. Especially since opiate admissions make up such a large portion of clients in the US right now. You should report the lady for asking you those questions to whoever protects job applicants in the UK

 

[jdfisse]

If the place that hires does drug testing it will be difficult to work in any treatment center. If you want a job in treatment it would probably be best to google MAT providers and see if you can get a job there (although for some crazy reasons MAT providers often won't hire people who are using the products they push--kind of makes one wonder what is up with that). The problem in that scenario is that many MAT providers don't need treatment professionals because the drug IS the treatment. Once in a while there are responsible MAT facilities or providers who require that some form of therapeutic recovery process accompanies the chemical enslavement. 32 years later my aunt isn't robbing for her drugs, but she is just as dishonest, discontent, and anti-social as she was when she started. Methadone alone won't fix that stuff.

 

[jdfisse]

Also, Drug use is not a protected category (yet).

 

[Jabberwocky]

Actually the reason that MAT providers often don't hire people who are still using methadone has to do more with licensing requirements and the fact that it is difficult for most people who suffer the stigma of addiction to pursue the higher education necessary to get a masters or doctorate.

Legally speaking you need more than a drug and alcohol counseling certification to work at a methadone clinic. You need to have at least a college level degree in social work, psychology, or related mental health field. Most professionals I have encountered at MAT providers are either in school for their masters/PhD or have already received it. Many MAT providers do in fact hire those who continue to use methadone WHO are also either getting their degree or have already gotten it.

At abstinence only based treatment providers like the traditional rehab, you can legally work there without actually being licensed as a drug and alcohol counselor. The standard for care at methadone clinics is actually higher than traditional rehabs. Granted there are some shady methadone clinics out there, but this can be said just as well for any treatment provider in the recovery industry (particularly traditional rehabs).

Methadone clinics have to adhere to much higher standards than rehabs do in order to stay licenses by the medical boards. What makes life hard when it comes to clinics on methadone making progress in their lives has infinitely more to do with the stigma surrounding methadone itself as a form of treatment, both in society at large but also especially within recovery communities. They have to deal with much more stigma than the average person in recovery, and that is what holds them back more than unprofessional treatment providers.

 

[elvis_wears_nikes]

I really appreciate all your advice. I am struggling to find out what my rights actually are in terms of methadone maintenance here in the UK as I would imagine it would be similar to any other medication for a chronic condition but that does not seem to be the case. Also, prior to my addiction, I used to be a registered nurse so I am grateful to have a degree level education. I was suspended from my licence for 18 months due to impairment so potentially I could return back to nursing in the near future but I would imagine that methadone would hold me back... But I can't find any literature or information on this. I know some people are thinking why don't you just come off of the methadone but I honestly don't feel like I am ready or at the right place in my recovery... I would like to be volunteering or working so I have more reconnection and less opportunity to relapse. I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place!

 

[Jabberwocky]

Find a local harm reduction outfit (pun not intended ) as I'm sure there is at least one major harm reduction organization in London and ask them how you can find out about your rights regarding methadone.

Working and volunteering with harm reduction organizations is a LOT of fun. You having the background you do, they would love to have you on board, I have no doubt. You might need to start out as a volunteer, but once your suspension is up I bet they'd love to hire you.

 

[cj]

Actually the reason that MAT providers often don't hire people who are still using methadone has to do more with licensing requirements and the fact that it is difficult for most people who suffer the stigma of addiction to pursue the higher education necessary to get a masters or doctorate.

Legally speaking you need more than a drug and alcohol counseling certification to work at a methadone clinic. You need to have a masters in social work, psychology, or related mental health field. Many MAT providers do in fact hire those who continue to use methadone WHO are also either getting their masters or have already gotten it.

At abstinence only based treatment providers like the traditional rehab, you can legally work there without actually being licensed as a drug and alcohol counselor. The standard for care at methadone clinics is actually higher than traditional rehabs. Granted there are some shady methadone clinics out there, but this can be said just as well for any treatment provider in the recovery industry (particularly traditional rehabs).

Methadone clinics have to adhere to much higher standards than rehabs do in order to stay licenses by the medical boards. What makes life hard when it comes to clinics on methadone making progress in their lives has infinitely more to do with the stigma surrounding methadone itself as a form of treatment, both in society at large but also especially within recovery communities. They have to deal with much more stigma than the average person in recovery, and that is what holds them back more than unprofessional treatment providers.

You don't need a masters to be a methadone counselor in my state. Just a bachelor's in a related field.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Thank you for point that out cj! Come to think of it you are absolutely right (I was thinking of clinic manager - they tend to have to have a higher level of credentials, with an MS/MSW/PsyD/PhD). And it depends on the clinic too, in terms of who they are willing to hire.

However, that said, a four year degree in a related field is still a lot more than an associates type degree that is the whole drug and alcohol certification to be an "addiction counselor." I'm not shitting on associates degrees mind you, just trying to point out the difference in rigor of educational requirements.

 

[cj]

Thank you for point that out cj! Come to think of it you are absolutely right (I was thinking of clinic manager - they tend to have to have a higher level of credentials, with an MS/MSW/PsyD/PhD). And it depends on the clinic too, in terms of who they are willing to hire.

However, that said, a four year degree in a related field is still a lot more than an associates type degree that is the whole drug and alcohol certification to be an "addiction counselor." I'm not shitting on associates degrees mind you, just trying to point out the difference in rigor of educational requirements.

Your point was still valid. Last rehab I went too had people with no degree running group therapy. Pretty sure that was ducking unethical

 

[johnnypotsmoker199]

It's best to just not disclose being on methadone if you want to work at a 12 step based rehab. It's not a question they are legally allowed to ask. When you go for pre employment drug screen tell them you are prescribed methadone and they have a process to verify that. Unfortunately it's a very insular industry in many ways and if you have outed yourself it may be too late to recover your reputation in the area.

I suggest you apply at homeless shelters and other non profits that aren't as tied to 12 step methadology then keep your mouth closed on the issue. After all what your doctor prescribes is no one's business.

It's a bullshit situation though and it harms clients. Methadone has a success rate much higher then the abstinence only crap they push for opiate addiction. If you really want a decent job I'm the industry I suggest you get a 4 year degree while working in the industry so you can get a feel for where you wanna work.

I agree. I see no reason to disclose the methadone to an employer. It's a prescription drug and you should be protected.

I would think you could continue nursing as long as you didn't attain a criminal record during your use.


If you feel you will relapse as soon as you get off the methadone, I would recommend staying on it. Don't fall back into the life of crime and drug use if you are currently stable.

There is no reason to do that to yourself. One day, you will find it difficult to quit, however, you can look into subocone or taper down slowly.

I wish you best of luck.

 

[Jabberwocky]

That is good advice. Sooner or later most people tire of the methadone maintenance system and find their own way of quitting. Hopefully the OP is able to be smart about it and has the time and wherewithal to do a proper taper before using comfort meds to detox, so they don't have to suffer through the unnecessary misery of a cold turkey methadone detox.

 

[elvis_wears_nikes]

Thanks again. I certainly wouldn't tell an employer if they didn't ask but I have found most applications for working in the recovery field do specifically ask... I am assuming it is because there is a high volume of people who have been through addiction that want to work in that role and they want someone who is relatively stable working with them. But I am stable on methadone! When the time is right, I will eventually titrate and reduce my dose but I don't think I should be pressured into doing it by a drug worker. Luckily, I haven't experienced too much of that approach but I have experienced more pressure from drug workers who have obviously been through 12 step abstinence programs. I am by no means disregarding abstinence base support and recovery... If it worked for them that's great but it didn't work for me! I will definitely look into harm minimisation services and try to find out what my rights and requirements are to return back to nursing when I am nearing the end of my suspension. I do have a criminal record but I do not have any violent offences so I am not too concerned as I did disclose them to the nursing council and they decided not to stike me off completely rather suspend me for health reasons (impairment) not disciplinary reasons which I am greatful for. You have all give me a great deal of info so thanks again!

 

[Jabberwocky]

It all depends on which part of the recovery industry you're interested in working at and what your qualification are. Someone with nursing credentials is going to face a lot less discrimination that someone without any professional creds on their CV who is also taking methadone.

Another way I look at it is that I simple wouldn't want to work for any employer who discriminates against ORT users like that.

Discrimination against folks who are stable and productive on something like bupenoprhine or methadone is much more common among the specific field of "drug and alcohol counselors," which compromises just one area of the recovery industry (even if it is a very vocal area).

I hope you are able to pursue your goals working in this industry though elvis! This is my goal too, although I'm really only interested in working for an organization that follows a harm reduction model. I hope you keep up updated on your progress! What kinds of places are you specifically interested in finding work at? I would think that you would have access to a number of good harm reduction and recovery oriented employers in your neck of the woods.

 

[elvis_wears_nikes]

Your words are too true. I feel that that volunteering would provide me a good start to try to and start narrowing the gap between my employment. Getting to know both staff and service users and gaining references will be rewarding and useful. I am not too concerned about starting off in a volunteer role at all but it would be great to eventually get paid employment sometime soon but that is not my main drive at the moment. I think gaining the knowledge and sklls to helping other struggling with addiction will be just as an enjoyable and worthwhile experience, and will ultimately help me too.

Many thanks!