Cholesterol/dietary fat intake on cycle

Genetic Freak

Moderator: SIED
Staff member
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Messages
2,759
There has been much controversy and misinformation over the years regarding dietary fat intake especially relating to cholesterol.. We know AAS increase lipids and likelihood of subsequent cardiovascular issues, therefore how much should we modify fat consumption (beef, eggs, etc) whilst on cycle, if at all..?


My thought is the only reason natural foods rich in animal fat are limited in bodybuilding, is the high calorie content not required in calorie deficit pre-comp.. They are perfectly healthy just eat them in moderation..

Benefits of animal fats

Foods containing trans fat sell because the American public is afraid of the alternative saturated fats found in tallow, lard, butter, palm and coconut oil, fats traditionally used for frying and baking. Yet the scientific literature delineates a number of vital roles for dietary saturated fats they enhance the immune system, are necessary for healthy bones, provide energy and structural integrity to the cells, protect the liver and enhance the bodys use of essential fatty acids. Stearic acid, found in beef tallow and butter, has cholesterol lowering properties and is a preferred food for the heart. As saturated fats are stable, they do not become rancid easily, do not call upon the bodys reserves of antioxidants, do not initiate cancer, do not irritate the artery walls.

Your body makes saturated fats, and your body makes cholesterol about 2000 mg per day. In general, cholesterol that the average American absorbs from food amounts to about 100 mg per day. So, in theory, even reducing animal foods to zero will result in a mere 5% decrease in the total amount of cholesterol available to the blood and tissues. In practice, such a diet is likely to deprive the body of the substrates it needs to manufacture enough of this vital substance; for cholesterol, like saturated fats, stands unfairly accused. It acts as a precursor to vital corticosteroids, hormones that help us deal with stress and protect the body against heart disease and cancer; and to the sex hormones like androgen, testosterone, estrogen and progesterone; it is a precursor to vitamin D, a vital fat-soluble vitamin needed for healthy bones and nervous system, proper growth, mineral metabolism, muscle tone, insulin production, reproduction and immune system function; it is the precursor to bile salts, which are vital for digestion and assimilation of fats in the diet. Recent research shows that cholesterol acts as an antioxidant. This is the likely explanation for the fact that cholesterol levels go up with age. As an antioxidant, cholesterol protects us against free radical damage that leads to heart disease and cancer. Cholesterol is the bodys repair substance, manufactured in large amounts when the arteries are irritated or weak...


Quote:

The 1968 International Atherosclerosis Project, in which over 22,000 corpses in 14 nations were cut open and examined for plaques in the arteries, showed the same degree of atheroma in all parts of the world?in populations that consumed large amounts of fatty animal products and those that were largely vegetarian, and in populations that suffered from a great deal of heart disease and in populations that had very little or none at all. All of these studies pointed to the fact that the thickening of the arterial walls is a natural, unavoidable process. The lipid hypothesis did not hold up to these population studies, nor did it explain the tendency to fatal clots that caused myocardial infarction..

Heart disease in the form of myocardial infarction was nonexistent in 1900 when egg consumption was three times what it was in 1956 and when hydrogenated vegetable fats like corn oil was unavailable.

The hydrogenation process transforms unsaturated oils into straight packable molecules, by rearranging the hydrogen atoms at the double bonds. In nature, most double bonds occur in the cis-configuration, that is with both hydrogen atoms on the same side of the carbon chain at the point of the double bond. It is the cis isomers of fatty acids that have a bend or kink at the double bond, preventing them from packing together easily. Hydrogenation creates trans double bonds by moving one hydrogen atom across to the other side of the carbon chain at the point of the double bond. In effect, the two hydrogen atoms then balance each other and the fatty acid straightens, creating a packable plastic fat with a much higher melting temperature. Although trans fatty acids are technically unsaturated, they are configured in such a way that the benefits of unsaturation are lost. The presence of several unpaired electrons presented by contiguous hydrogen atoms in their cis form allows many vital chemical reactions to occur at the site of the double bond. When one hydrogen atom is moved to the other side of the fatty acid molecule during hydrogenation, the ability of living cells to make reactions at the site is compromised or altogether lost. Trans fatty acids are sufficiently similar to natural fats that the body readily incorporates them into the cell membrane; once there their altered chemical structure creates havoc with thoGlobalnds of necessary chemical reactions everything from energy provision to prostaglandin production.


Discussed here:

http://coconutoil.com/oiling_america/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvKdYUCUca8
 
Nice post mate. I recommend anyone interested in understanding why we incorrectly blame fats or cholesterol for health problems have a read of this article (The Sugar Conspiracy):

In 1972, a British scientist sounded the alarm that sugar – and not fat – was the greatest danger to our health. But his findings were ridiculed and his reputation ruined. How did the world’s top nutrition scientists get it so wrong for so long?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lustig-john-yudkin

Tl;dr: the sugar industry paid researchers to create research that would blame fats for health problems and destroy the reputation of the British researcher John Yudkin who discovered that it was processed sugars causing Western health issues.

What research actually shows is that diets high in saturated and animal fats (and cholesterol) appear to result in healthier populations. You only have to look at France, (probably) the healthiest nation in the world and the highest per capita consumer of butter and cheese, to see the fallacy of the post-war research.

Anyway, finally the whole house of cards has now collapsed following the take off of early '00s high-fat diet fads (Atkins etc) and the death of many of the old school researchers. Sadly many governments still give out faulty nutritional advice based on that old orthodoxy (especially regarding % of daily calories to be obtained from carbohydrate sources).

Sugars cause cholesterol problems, alter HDL:LDL ratios, elevate triglycerides, provoke liver inflammation and so on. Obviously eating excessive amounts of fats isn't healthy, but you shouldn't avoid animal fats because of worries about cholesterol or fat gain. Most of my cooking fats come from butter.
 

Sugars cause cholesterol problems, alter HDL:LDL ratios, elevate triglycerides, provoke liver inflammation and so on.
Obviously eating excessive amounts of fats isn't healthy, but you shouldn't avoid animal fats because of worries about cholesterol or fat gain.

Do we know what mechanism sugar causes atheroslorotic plaque build up and subsequant rupture..?

Does this mean I should refrain from regular excessive consumption of chocolate ice cream.?
 
Basically continuous excess sugar > high levels of triglycerides.

Triglycerides don't dissolve in blood like glucose, and will stick to the lumen (endothelial cells) lining the arteries. A little bit of sticking is expected and can be dealt with, but too much builds up over time and things like calcium add to it and a plaque begins to form. There's a decent little video in the wikipedia article.

As for your gigantic overdosing of chocolate ice-cream, I doubt it's raising your triglycerides for long enough to make any difference ;) It's when fasting levels are high that you need to be concerned.
 
Basically continuous excess sugar > high levels of triglycerides.

Triglycerides don't dissolve in blood like glucose, and will stick to the lumen (endothelial cells) lining the arteries. A little bit of sticking is expected and can be dealt with, but too much builds up over time and things like calcium add to it and a plaque begins to form. There's a decent little video in the wikipedia article.

As for your gigantic overdosing of chocolate ice-cream, I doubt it's raising your triglycerides for long enough to make any difference ;) It's when fasting levels are high that you need to be concerned.

It's my only indulgence, so good news..

Thanks for the link..
 
Thoughts on phytoestrogens? Do strength athletes/AAS users need to watch for this? I know this isn't really a high fat thing, but this thread made me think about vegan keto and I remember this coming up when I was researching vegan keto.

What about thoughts on Gary Taubes - The Case Against Sugar? This book gets blasted a lot by science-based BBing gurus (mainly that it is another guy after your money with a fictitious boogeyman), but some of his points are echoed in this thread. Just curious if either of you have seen/read it...
 
Thoughts on phytoestrogens? Do strength athletes/AAS users need to watch for this? I know this isn't really a high fat thing, but this thread made me think about vegan keto and I remember this coming up when I was researching vegan keto.

Must admit, I've never really paid a lot of attention to the issue. I know most meta-analyses haven't really observed an issue with soy and soy isoflavones WRT fertility, not that I necessarily consider that case closed, and nor that fertility is the only issue (cancer etc).


What about thoughts on Gary Taubes - The Case Against Sugar? This book gets blasted a lot by science-based BBing gurus (mainly that it is another guy after your money with a fictitious boogeyman), but some of his points are echoed in this thread. Just curious if either of you have seen/read it...

I'm sympathetic to many of his arguments, while finding some of his pedantic critics a bit absurd and no less myopic in their analyses. I still wouldn't dismiss a multifactoral explanation for a lot of health-related issues, but clearly processed sugar (as opposed to complex carbohydrates) has a lot to answer for.
 
There has been much controversy and misinformation over the years regarding dietary fat intake especially relating to cholesterol.. We know AAS increase lipids and likelihood of subsequent cardiovascular issues, therefore how much should we modify fat consumption (beef, eggs, etc) whilst on cycle, if at all..?


My thought is the only reason natural foods rich in animal fat are limited in bodybuilding, is the high calorie content not required in calorie deficit pre-comp.. They are perfectly healthy just eat them in moderation..

Benefits of animal fats

Foods containing trans fat sell because the American public is afraid of the alternative saturated fats found in tallow, lard, butter, palm and coconut oil, fats traditionally used for frying and baking. Yet the scientific literature delineates a number of vital roles for dietary saturated fats they enhance the immune system, are necessary for healthy bones, provide energy and structural integrity to the cells, protect the liver and enhance the bodys use of essential fatty acids. Stearic acid, found in beef tallow and butter, has cholesterol lowering properties and is a preferred food for the heart. As saturated fats are stable, they do not become rancid easily, do not call upon the bodys reserves of antioxidants, do not initiate cancer, do not irritate the artery walls.

Your body makes saturated fats, and your body makes cholesterol about 2000 mg per day. In general, cholesterol that the average American absorbs from food amounts to about 100 mg per day. So, in theory, even reducing animal foods to zero will result in a mere 5% decrease in the total amount of cholesterol available to the blood and tissues. In practice, such a diet is likely to deprive the body of the substrates it needs to manufacture enough of this vital substance; for cholesterol, like saturated fats, stands unfairly accused. It acts as a precursor to vital corticosteroids, hormones that help us deal with stress and protect the body against heart disease and cancer; and to the sex hormones like androgen, testosterone, estrogen and progesterone; it is a precursor to vitamin D, a vital fat-soluble vitamin needed for healthy bones and nervous system, proper growth, mineral metabolism, muscle tone, insulin production, reproduction and immune system function; it is the precursor to bile salts, which are vital for digestion and assimilation of fats in the diet. Recent research shows that cholesterol acts as an antioxidant. This is the likely explanation for the fact that cholesterol levels go up with age. As an antioxidant, cholesterol protects us against free radical damage that leads to heart disease and cancer. Cholesterol is the bodys repair substance, manufactured in large amounts when the arteries are irritated or weak...


Quote:

The 1968 International Atherosclerosis Project, in which over 22,000 corpses in 14 nations were cut open and examined for plaques in the arteries, showed the same degree of atheroma in all parts of the world?in populations that consumed large amounts of fatty animal products and those that were largely vegetarian, and in populations that suffered from a great deal of heart disease and in populations that had very little or none at all. All of these studies pointed to the fact that the thickening of the arterial walls is a natural, unavoidable process. The lipid hypothesis did not hold up to these population studies, nor did it explain the tendency to fatal clots that caused myocardial infarction..

Heart disease in the form of myocardial infarction was nonexistent in 1900 when egg consumption was three times what it was in 1956 and when hydrogenated vegetable fats like corn oil was unavailable.

The hydrogenation process transforms unsaturated oils into straight packable molecules, by rearranging the hydrogen atoms at the double bonds. In nature, most double bonds occur in the cis-configuration, that is with both hydrogen atoms on the same side of the carbon chain at the point of the double bond. It is the cis isomers of fatty acids that have a bend or kink at the double bond, preventing them from packing together easily. Hydrogenation creates trans double bonds by moving one hydrogen atom across to the other side of the carbon chain at the point of the double bond. In effect, the two hydrogen atoms then balance each other and the fatty acid straightens, creating a packable plastic fat with a much higher melting temperature. Although trans fatty acids are technically unsaturated, they are configured in such a way that the benefits of unsaturation are lost. The presence of several unpaired electrons presented by contiguous hydrogen atoms in their cis form allows many vital chemical reactions to occur at the site of the double bond. When one hydrogen atom is moved to the other side of the fatty acid molecule during hydrogenation, the ability of living cells to make reactions at the site is compromised or altogether lost. Trans fatty acids are sufficiently similar to natural fats that the body readily incorporates them into the cell membrane; once there their altered chemical structure creates havoc with thoGlobalnds of necessary chemical reactions everything from energy provision to prostaglandin production.


Discussed here:

http://coconutoil.com/oiling_america/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvKdYUCUca8

Bump..
 
Top