• H&R Moderators: VerbalTruist | cdin | Lil'LinaptkSix

I'm worried my daughter is doing heroin

Thank you everyone for your sympathy and understanding. I'd like to let you all know that she's been booked into a drug addiction treatment facility, which is offering a 5 day treatment and therapy programme. She has been prescribed Naloxone to reverse the effects of heroin and help with the withdrawal symptoms (they suggested this as a substitute to methadone as the abstinence rate is higher on naloxone?) So, I'm hoping she is on the road to recovery at least. I'm hoping she comes out sober, but she'll still have the supply of meds to use at home when she needs them (I'll make sure that she uses only when she needs to!) And then, when she comes home, I might ask her to consider maybe talking to a psychologist about the depression. And her reasons for drug use. I know that although the worst of the physical withdrawals will be gone, the mental addiction will still be very much alive... I'm hoping that the prescribed medication she is taking will counteract this.
And Cj, thanks for the information. I am currently reading this, to better understand my daughter's reason for addiction.
 
Thank you everyone for your sympathy and understanding. I'd like to let you all know that she's been booked into a drug addiction treatment facility, which is offering a 5 day treatment and therapy programme. She has been prescribed Naloxone to reverse the effects of heroin and help with the withdrawal symptoms (they suggested this as a substitute to methadone as the abstinence rate is higher on naloxone?) So, I'm hoping she is on the road to recovery at least. I'm hoping she comes out sober, but she'll still have the supply of meds to use at home when she needs them (I'll make sure that she uses only when she needs to!) And then, when she comes home, I might ask her to consider maybe talking to a psychologist about the depression. And her reasons for drug use. I know that although the worst of the physical withdrawals will be gone, the mental addiction will still be very much alive... I'm hoping that the prescribed medication she is taking will counteract this.
And Cj, thanks for the information. I am currently reading this, to better understand my daughter's reason for addiction.
If she wants to reduce her self harm she's on the road to recovery
 
Cornucopia, dont blame yourself! this world has a massive opioid problem that sucks in kids from all upbringings. I have personal freinds with kids going thru the same issues and two of them started herion at college also. Both kids never did drugs before so its very hard to see coming. Im going to be 5 months clean april 25 from a daily oxy addiction for over 20 years so its never too late to quit. I did my research here and got great advise from good people here and was able to ween down and do wds at home. It wasnt that bad with the right comfort wd meds, but like others said its the next couple months called paws (post acute withdrawal) that are the problem. Insomnia can last a while and lack of energy is very bad but as time goes on you get better and better, after a month or so you really start to feel much better. The key is to take one day at a time, there are lots of things that really help during paws EXERCISE the most even just going for long walks and lots of supplements help also try to keep distracted as much as possible. Favorite hobbies, music things that make you happy. Opioids do make you nod i use to fall asleep at red lights as do benzos. Best of luck to you and your daughter.
 
Ugh naloxone? She is going thru hell right now if she had a real habit. Naloxone is an opiate antagonist which means it blocks opiates. It won't do anything to help her withdraws. It might speed the process up slightly but thats debatable. Don't expect to get a bright cheery daughter back after the 5 days. She's going to be physically and mentally drained. Also naloxone lowers your tolerance for opiates which makes it really easy to overdose if she relapses. And I have to tell you the risk of relapse is going to be really high when she first gets home as its very likely she's still gonna be feeling residual withdrawal. Not trying to be pessimistic just giving the truth. I hope her habit was small and she barely had withdrawal and everyone can move on quickly as that would be the best scenerio.

Goodluck we are always here if you need more support or have questions.
 
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Cornucopia...are you sure it's naloxone that they prescribed for your daughter, and not naltrexone? The names are so close, they often get confused.

I'm mostly asking to keep myself informed about different treatment options.

*Typically* naloxone (brand name Narcan) is used in an emergency to counteract the effect of an opioid overdose. Naltrexone, on the other hand, is a very old drug that is also an opiate antagonist, but which is sometimes prescribed to produce on ongoing "blockade" so that a person simply cannot get high from opioids.

Like I said, I'm mainly asking because I'd be curious if it's the case that naloxone is being used for ongoing addiction treatment.

Thanks for any clarification. And good luck. I can only imagine how hard all this must be for you and your daughter.
 
Thank you everyone for your sympathy and understanding. I'd like to let you all know that she's been booked into a drug addiction treatment facility, which is offering a 5 day treatment and therapy programme. She has been prescribed Naloxone to reverse the effects of heroin and help with the withdrawal symptoms (they suggested this as a substitute to methadone as the abstinence rate is higher on naloxone?) So, I'm hoping she is on the road to recovery at least. I'm hoping she comes out sober, but she'll still have the supply of meds to use at home when she needs them (I'll make sure that she uses only when she needs to!) And then, when she comes home, I might ask her to consider maybe talking to a psychologist about the depression. And her reasons for drug use. I know that although the worst of the physical withdrawals will be gone, the mental addiction will still be very much alive... I'm hoping that the prescribed medication she is taking will counteract this.
And Cj, thanks for the information. I am currently reading this, to better understand my daughter's reason for addiction.

I am sorry to be the barer of bad news, but this program sounds pretty backwards. Statistically speaking, patients on opioid antagonists like naloxone (although normally the longer acting naltrexone is used for such purposes, not naloxone) don't do much better than patients taking a placebo.

ORT (methadone and buprenorphine) is statistically much more effective for severe opioid use disorder than something like naltrexone. Now, when it comes to mild or moderate opioid use disorder, perhaps naltrexone might be more useful. But to say an opioid antagonist like naltrexone is more effective than the gold standard of methadone based ORT is laughable.

If you don't mind disclosing it, what is the name of the treatment provider? Of if you don't want to get specific (which is totally cool, no pressure), what kind of treatment are they providing her with? It sounds like they're giving her a five day detox type thing? If that is all, realistically speaking she will need a LOT of help (not necessarily from you, just in terms of her having unmet needs more generally upon completion of this short program as cj pointed out in his post) upon coming out of detox.
 
Cornucopia...are you sure it's naloxone that they prescribed for your daughter, and not naltrexone? The names are so close, they often get confused.

I'm mostly asking to keep myself informed about different treatment options.

*Typically* naloxone (brand name Narcan) is used in an emergency to counteract the effect of an opioid overdose. Naltrexone, on the other hand, is a very old drug that is also an opiate antagonist, but which is sometimes prescribed to produce on ongoing "blockade" so that a person simply cannot get high from opioids.

Like I said, I'm mainly asking because I'd be curious if it's the case that naloxone is being used for ongoing addiction treatment.

Thanks for any clarification. And good luck. I can only imagine how hard all this must be for you and your daughter.
Yes, my mistake, it was naltrexone, not naloxone... I got the names confused. I'm sorry to cause confusion. I hope that this is a better alternative, though would you say it works as effectively as methadone? I want to have the best chance of coming out clean...
 
Nope, naltrexone is no where near as effective as methadone. Drugs like methadone and buprenorphine have to be monitored and managed very carefully in order to avoid the user relapsing when they titrate off the medication, but otherwise they are far superior to opioid antagonists in almost every way (particularly in terms of addressing craving).

But then again, it depends on what you mean by "effective." Effective at reducing or eliminating cravings? Definitely no comparison (methadone is far superior). More effective at preventing one from feeling the subjective effectives of full agonist opioids while using the medication? Probably naltrexone.

But your daughter is almost certainly more concerned with dealing with cravings than attempting to stay sober relying on an opioid antagonist's blockage properties.
 
Well to be honest 5 day miracle treatment doesn't sound good at all.

I went through a 30 day Suboxone aided detox after tapering out my usage of oxycontin by the aid of a months long Dr. scheduled tapering program.

That wasn't still good enough as I relapsed after a ~month and decided to get into Suboxone maintenance.

I was able to continue working as soon as I got out of the facility where the ORT was started. I actually did some some work on my (then) upcoming articles and book while on the facility but as I work with MacBooks or iPads and I wasn't able to bring one in it was a pain in the butt to type handwritten papers at home (and to give some humour I honestly didn't want to risk something to rupture while trying to get neither in illegally which would have been more pain in the butt :) )

I honestly suggest to look for a facility that offers detox aided with maintenance drugs whether those are methadone or buprenorphine (Suboxone/Subutex) and if that isn't enough then getting into ORT program. I know Toothpastedog prefers methadone and I prefer Suboxone as a treatment for maintenance and detox but I guess we both agree that there some variables which must be factored in when choosing the right one and I would trust that a good Dr. can choose the right one for a patient or in a best case can inform the patient of the both options enough for the patient to make the choice.

Edit:

I would like to add that in my opinion opioid antagonists do nothing for cravings but instead will make withdrawals more intense if there is still some opioids in the system.

Methadone or Suboxene will help deal with the cravings as well as withdrawals and still prevent usage of (most) opioids.
 
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While TPD's points about the statistical merits of methadone or buprenorphine vs naltrexone is 100% true and correct, I just wanted to chime in to flesh out the landscape.

Using opioid antagonists like naltrexone as support during recovery does have a weak clinical track record. But there are some people for whom this approach can help. I'm one of them. I never tried methadone so can't speak to that. But six months in a structured suboxone-based ORT program did little for me. Subsequently, though, I went onto naltrexone and it has played a big role in helping me stay away from heroin.

I mention all this simply as context. True, naltrexone is unhelpful for many people. But for other people (by whatever mechanism), it does have a valid role to play in recovery from opioid addiction.
 
I think methadone is a miracle drug. It gave me my life back.
 
Thank you for this. Though they said that as she has not been addicted for that long (5 months) that naltrexone would be best for her, but I'm still a little confused. But I'll bear in mind what you said. As I said, I only want the best chance of recovery for my daughter and to get through this so that we can move on from it. I know they are doing their best to aid her in the recovery process but it seems like it is all a bit rushed... But, as someone pointed out, rehab would not be ideal as she has not been addicted for that long and that there is a high chance she'll come back to heroin?
Just some background information I forgot to put out: She would inject it, and she claims that she never did any drugs before now. I never know if she's telling the truth but that is her words. She also still had some in her possession even after I found out and insisted that she use "just the rest" of it before she went in for treatment. Of course, I don't let her use it up, but I know that she did get withdrawals. This is going to be tough... But everyone here is very supportive and informative, so thank you.
 
Methadone = the iron pyrite standard. Chaining myself to an oak tree would keep me from using too. I am glad I broke free from the same tree my aunt has been chained to for 32 years now. Just one addict's experience.
 
Chances are a course of buprenorphine treatment, of 6 months to 2 years, would be more effective than naltrexone. Generally speaking, those with a "mild opioid use disorder" would probably benefit more from naltrexone than buprenoprhine, but this can be very hard to quantify. If she has been injecting opioids by definition it has progressed past the point of mild.

What does your daughter have to say about all this? What is most important is what she feels she can realistically achieve in her recovery. I mean, she may in fact want to try something like naltrexone over ORT, or maybe not. It's hard to say when you have treatment folks acting like they know what is best for the patient (when they just as often have either no clue or their own ideological/financial agendas). I'd suggest going with supporting the form of treatment your daughter herself wants, not something anyone is shoving down her throat.
 
Methadone = the iron pyrite standard. Chaining myself to an oak tree would keep me from using too. I am glad I broke free from the same tree my aunt has been chained to for 32 years now. Just one addict's experience.

congrats! good for you! hopefully your aunt will follow your lead.
 
5 day detox is extremely rushed. Her behavior makes me think she is mentally addicted and physicaly dependant. They are 2 different issues. The detox solved the physical aspect but they did nothing for the mental aspect.

The mental aspect of heroin addiction is what lead to relapse. She will want the drug as bad as a starving person wants food. It has rewired the reward system in her brain to put heroine above everything and everyone else. I'll be honest with you this is going to be an ongoing problem.

There are different stages of addiction. It sounds like she is still in the honeymoon phase. She's getting really high and it's the best thing ever.

She wont quit until she wants to quit more than she wants heroin. Personally that took 8 years 3 rehabs multiple hospital admissions. Stealing from everyone losing all my friends anything of value. But I survived because my mom never gave up on me. She paid for rehab suboxone a lawyer just everything to keep me alive.

The end for me came at 27 I was working as a server in a restaurant and spending 100 dollars a day on heroin. My viens where screwed I couldn't hit myself consistently anymore. So I made the best call of my life. The methadone clinic. I haven't craved opiates in a long time.

I'm not saying your daughter will be like me. I just want to convey how strong mental addiction to this drug is. Getting through withdrawals is just the beginning of the fight.

The best thing you can do is find out why she started in the first place. From there let a counselor take over and work on unraveling whatever is killing her soul. Because happy people don't stick needles in there arms.
 
I just want to convey how strong mental addiction to a drug is. Getting through withdrawals is just the beginning of the fight. The best thing you can do is find out why she started in the first place. From there let a counselor take over and work on unraveling whatever is killing her soul. Happy people don't stick needles in there arms.

I could not agree more. Addressing the complicated, and often even subconscious roots, of the mental aspects of dependence, compulsive use or addiction is what recovery actually means. Your daughter is young and on a positive note that means this will be easier for her than someone that has buried their pain for half a lifetime. On the other hand, a middle aged person or older person has the advantage of a certain amount of maturing. The best way that you can support your daughter in her explorations of the difficult aspects of emotional life is to explore that yourself. This is not to imply that you have terrible problems but to recognize that all of us have emotional pain and that we make adaptations and complicated strategies for avoiding that pain. Learning to live with self-acceptance (rather than self-denial) and a completely open heart is a very powerful life changing knowledge. If your daughter feels that you are there with her on a completely equal footing to her (you are both explorers!) rather than "you are fine and she needs fixing" then she will feel more trusting to address family issues that may be affecting her.

It is very hard as a parent to not blame yourself for your child's pain. If your child says, "When you said this it made me feel like that (something bad)" or, "When you and Dad do this it undermines my confidence" it can feel as if you are being blamed and the tendency is to both feel defensive and blame yourself even further. The way I dealt with this was twofold: 1) I reminded myself that I had once been a child, that I had been the daughter that translated messages from my own loving parents into self-defeating voices in my head, that I had suffered because of mistakes my parents had made and yet I love and respect both of my parents more than anything; 2) that should my child become a parent himself, he would surely also make mistakes, also create suffering in ways he did not intend for his own child--in other words it is inevitable in a parent child relationship that this will occur to some extent in very unique ways between every child and every parent. Every parent I know tries to react the opposite of something their own parents did that they have deemed hurtful, to emulate that which they felt their own parents did well and to sift through the current advice of their particular time and culture to do what "is best" for their children. The best thing we can do to help our children through difficulties in their own lives is to A) recognize their autonomy B) recognize and address anything in our family dynamics that could be contributing and C) do not confuse trying to fix someone's problems with being a reliable source of trusted support. This is a very tall order and it is imperative that you get all the support you can for yourself while you are trying to navigate this new terrain. I feel that a family crisis such as this can be an amazing leap forward if people can go into it without either the fear of being blamed or the need to blame others. When I hear blame, whether it is directed at oneself or at another (the addict blaming a parent, the parent blaming an addict, each blaming themselves) I see a situation bound for more pain.

Rumi wrote these beautiful lines and I think they apply in this situation:

"Out beyond the ideas of rightdoing and wrongdoing, there is a field.
I'll meet you there."

I am wondering also how your husband is dealing with everything?
 
Thank you Herbavore for your kind words. Of course, at first I, as a parent, was shocked and scared. I never expected of her something like this. Although she has self-harmed by cutting herself in the past, which I found out from the college. I talked to her even then, but she was like talking to a brick wall, that she has built up. By denying everything that is wrong. But hopefully, with trust, that wall will break down and we'll get to the heart of it all. I want to help her, not just with the drug addiction, but with her other issues and the pain that lies beneath that. The first step is getting her to talk to me and open up. And I'm still scared. Nobody wants to see their kids suffer - it makes us as parents, suffer also. I really don't want to watch her throw her life away just for a fix... I can't let her live like this anymore. She is a great girl, with great potentials. And when she gets out, I think I will sit down and talk with her and discuss any further options she wants to take? I want her to be honest with me...
Also sadly, tomorrow is her 20th birthday and she'll be spending it in the clinic away from her family. When she gets home I want her to have a reason to celebrate, not commiserate.
As for her dad, he has been pretty upset about the whole thing as well. He blames the "other kids in her college." But she doesn't have many friends at college anyway! And she's not a kid, she's an adult now. And she needs to learn to live as such. I think he is just as shocked as myself but still in denial and sceptical of her living a sober life. He has been more pessimistic about the whole situation. As he knew someone once who was an addict and died of an overdose. He was hard on her too, but I know he just doesn't want the same to happen to her. Maybe I have been too hard on myself. But I can't point the finger of blame at anyone... Right now this is the situation we're faced with, and so we must do our best to heal our daughter's "wounds". That's what's most important right now.
 
The blame game is a pointless waste of energy. You and Dad need to be on the same page lockstep otherwise there will be turbulence during these talks and that's the worst thing you can do. You need to say "we love you we know your hurting and we want to help". Heroine use is a symptom of a bigger emotional problem.

I am all for sending her on a trip for a couple weeks as soon as she leaves detox so she doesn't have time to get heroin. Even if it's somewhere in England though Japan would be better but I know it's expensive. If she comes home to the same routine she will relapse.

She needs change period. Honestly your probably going to have to change how your family communicates. Thats where Profesional help comes in a family therapist would be ideal. Don't just sweep this under the rug. Also remember she is going to feel terrible for awhIle at least a month. The first 90 days are crucial thats how long it takes the brain to return to equilibrium. Thats the average anyway so give or take.

I am an opiate addict myself so I ask that you please treat her with kid gloves. Getting off this stuff is hard. I wish you and her the best
 
I'm glad people are bringing to light, the fact that getting off heroine isn't so bad. It's staying off that's the hard part.

Cj and herbivore hit the nail on the head. If you guys have the money, I would consider sending her to Japan or wherever for recovery. Get her away from what she knows.

Once heroine enters the brain, it immediately fills every void, fixes every pain and cures every illness. As long as you keep filling yourself with it. Seems like the perfect solution for a young scared anxious girl. I would keep her clean for a month, if you can... Then send her off to treatment.

The fact that she's so young is great! But the fact that she's still in the honeymoon stage is tough. She will always fantasise about using. Unless she goes through deep recovery.

Shit, im 33, have two kids, a wife and two businesses. I'm over three months clean and I think about using every single day. It's tough to recover from this stuff. Opiotes don't discriminate..... They take doctors, lawyers, house wives, teen girls and anyone who touches them. Even unintentionally.

Stay strong and get her some real long term help. She's young enough to possibly recover before things progress
 
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