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Analogs not yet explored? Stimulants and entheogens specifically

Wiserthanearlier

Bluelighter
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Feb 6, 2017
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I recall in early 2000s wondering why you couldnt make a chemical that was mdma like with a different stimulant base.
I knew nothing about pharmacology let me add.

Sure enough, mdmc or methylone appeared. And other variants of course.

So today i wonder about analogues of chems like propylhexedrine or phentermine.
Both are phenethylamines i think.

Why arent there more analogs of these, are the chains already too long, or synth to complex?

This is a very simple example, i could easily suggest more
[h=1][/h]
 
They can make more money by releasing compounds bit by bit. Releasing them all at once doesnt make sense because theyll all get banned.
 
6-mapb is too hard to make and the precursors are hard to obtain.

bk-5/6-mabp should work but since it's hard to obtain the precursors and the bk versions would be weaker and shittier if mdma vs bk-mdma is anything to go by, why make them and not 5-mapb (or 6-mapb if you can)?

5-eapb was made but is pretty bad so....

5-mapdb is another dead end as is 5-mbpb

5-methyl-ethlyone is relatively new and supposed to be pretty good.

I'd like to see 5-mapb become widespread again and 6-mapb available but you can't have everything. At least 5 and 6 apb came back.

For stimulants we did get 3-fma, 3-fea, 4f-mph, rti-111, 4-methyl-cathinone (4-mc while mephedrone is 4-mmc), 4f-eph in a years time and 3-fa is apparently coming soon. And while rti-111, 4f-eph, 4-mc and perhaps 3-fea aren't spectacular, 3-fma and 4f-mph are good. I've even seen a report on troparil which if real and not too expensive looks very promising.
 
I recall in early 2000s wondering why you couldnt make a chemical that was mdma like with a different stimulant base.
I knew nothing about pharmacology let me add.

Sure enough, mdmc or methylone appeared. And other variants of course.

So today i wonder about analogues of chems like propylhexedrine or phentermine.
Both are phenethylamines i think.

Why arent there more analogs of these, are the chains already too long, or synth to complex?

This is a very simple example, i could easily suggest more

There are a few explanations. First, most RCs have been appropriated from the scientific literature, or are slight variations on other RCs. MDMC was patented by Shulgin. So RC distributors have mainly been interested in the low hanging fruit. Second, not all stimulant scaffolds can be modified to produce compounds with MDMA-like effects. Going from amphetamine to cathinone was relatively effective, but applying these principles to the pyrovalerone or aminorex scaffolds has not been effective.
 
So today i wonder about analogues of chems like propylhexedrine or phentermine.
Both are phenethylamines i think.

Propylhexedrine is not a phenylethylamine, it is a cyclohexylethylamine. There's an older thread on this topic, but the main problems with attaching a methylenedioxy bridge to a saturated cyclohexyl ring instead of an aromatic phenyl would be a) very low stability and b) - if propylhexedrine is any indication - poor stimulation-to-vasoconstriction ratio.

As for Methylenedioxyphentermine, that one was actually made by Shulgin, but even at a dose of 200 miligrams it was neither as "rewarding" as MDA nor did it have the "magic" of MDMA.

Speaking of which, Methylenedioxyphentermine would be not just an analogue of MDA, but also a positional isomer of the banned MDMA - the former you could get away with because the Analogue Act has the whole "human consumption" clause, but the latter could make it straight-up illegal under the "Controlled Substances Act" (note: I am not a lawyer, so take this information with a grain of salt).
 
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Ive always been curious about (How do I put this). How far back "we" could go. For example starting with Benzene (Or its pre) and forming molecules. (Im no chemist obviously).
When you say Propyl Hexadrine though, I extract from Benzedrex with MA and any Non Polar solvent, Just a theory I would never do ANYTHING against the law but I feel like PHEX and Amphetamine (Just an example) are SO structurally similar couldn't there be a usefulness there? Also Meth is reduced industrially to Synth it.. Weird.
I just feel there's a use for it that hasn't been realized. It'd take a smarter man than me though. Sorry If that was irrelevant.
 
Dave Nichols synthesized a number of MDMA analogs which have similar mechanism of action, and similar subjective effects, but without the neurotoxicity associated with MDMA. MDAI is one example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDAI

I've been very interested in these compounds for a while. As far as analogs go, you can always make all kinds of crazy analogs of drugs. Just depends on how inventive you are. ;)
 
Mdai is a good example of my point, although rather benign in nature. What about:
Methylenedioxymetylprolintane or methyldioxymethyphenidate?
 
I guess I don't necessarily understand what's being asked. Are you just asking what analogs exist? What do you want to know about them? Are you looking for a new psychedelic, a new PTSD-type therapeutic similar to (but distinct from) MDMA?

It just seems kind of odd to ask what compounds exist.

Ive always been curious about (How do I put this). How far back "we" could go. For example starting with Benzene (Or its pre) and forming molecules. (Im no chemist obviously).
When you say Propyl Hexadrine though, I extract from Benzedrex with MA and any Non Polar solvent, Just a theory I would never do ANYTHING against the law but I feel like PHEX and Amphetamine (Just an example) are SO structurally similar couldn't there be a usefulness there? Also Meth is reduced industrially to Synth it.. Weird.
I just feel there's a use for it that hasn't been realized. It'd take a smarter man than me though. Sorry If that was irrelevant.

They're actually not that structurally similar. Other than having six carbon atoms, saturated vs. aromatic ring systems have about as different of chemistry as you can get. They don't participate in the same reactions, and their binding to a receptor is different as well. For a 6-member ring system, aromatic groups (like phenyl groups) tend to have a cloud of electron density above and below the ring, and are subject to something called "ring current". Because of these factors, they tend to have a larger partial positive charge on the aromatic hydrogens vs. a cyclohexane ring. This causes them to interact in a few notable ways in receptors; they can participate in pi-stacking, where the aromatic ring of the drug and a pi system in the receptor binding pocket stack on top of one another, you can also have cation-pi interactions, where a cation in the receptor pocket forms a partial bond with the cloud of electron density above and below the ring. They also have entirely different conformations, with an aromatic ring being flat and a cyclohexane ring being kinked into a "chair" confirmation, although it can adopt others.

So, yeah, the drugs look pretty similar, but that's actually a major modification to go from a fully saturated to a fully unsaturated ring system, and it makes their pharmacology distinct, though similar.

By the way, there's a lot of medicinal chemists who do exactly what you're talking about; they strip down drugs to find out which structural features are necessary, which can be removed without changing activity, etc. One of my favorite examples is the benzomorphan/morphinan/dxm structures.

Just look at these in order: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentazocine , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morphinan , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextromethorphan
 
Methylenedioxymetylprolintane

Did you mean "Methylenedioxyprolintane" (without the "methyl")?
If so: This compound would be the beta-de-keto analogue of MDPV. Given how beta-keto-Prolintane (aka a-PVP) is significantly more potent than Prolintane itself, MDProlintane would probably be decent, but not all that spectacular.

Also, the compound would most likely be a reuptake inhibitor and not a releasing agent, so you'd get MDPV-like stimulation, not MDMA-like "rolliness".

As for Methyledioxymethylprolintane - sticking an extra alkyl group on that pyrolidine ring would most likely just make it significantly less potent.

or methyldioxymethyphenidate?

That one would probably make a decent Noradrenaline-Dopamine-Reuptake-Inhibitor - a straight stim, but again, no rolly feeling.
 
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