Treatment First time Opiate Withdrawal! PLEASE HELP!!!

[pureblend]

I need any advise or tips to help me and my boyfriend get through this withdrawal. In order for people to provide the best advice possible I am going to tell about our situation because I know W/D depends on many factors.

For the past 4 and a half months We have been using fentanyl every day. I was a user for about 2 months before I started using everyday. During this time period I was only doing fyntal occasionally like 2 or 3 days out of the week at a low dose. As stated earlier I now use everyday and have for the past 4 and a half months.

The way we've been doing fentanyl is by snorting fake roxies pressed with it; each roxy is said to have around 100 mcg in it. I believe some have more fentanyl in them than others because some seem stronger. For the past two months I have been doing about 15 pressed roxies a day. Since I don't know what mcg each pill contains I have to estimate my dosage; I believe I am taking around 1,500 mcg - 1,700 mcg of fentanyl daily possibly more.

Starting today we are trying to taper down and only do 6 pills; our plan is to cut down by a half a pill everyday. We know cutting to much too fast can make us W/D, but if done right will lessen the W/D symptoms which is what we want. Is this a good plan and if not what is?

We only have roughly 2 weeks to taper down; the last day we could take a pill has to be the 3/26/17.

I have only experienced opiate withdrawal once for around 12 hours and my symptoms were unbearable. A few of my symptoms include being cold but sweating so much my clothes were wet. My hands were shaking to the point when I tried to drink water I'd spill most of it on myself. Every muscle in my body ached but the worst pain was my lower back; because of this pain I could barely move or walk.There was no way I could sit or stand that helped the lower back pain or any other muscle pain. I could also not sleep at all because of restless being so restless. I do not smoke weed but that day smoked bowls and dabs because I heard it would help; smoking gave me no relief at all not even help with sleep. For those 12 hours I really thought I was dying. The 12 hours we had W/D he had the same symptoms except he was also puking.

We know no matter what I have put myself in a situation where I am going to feel like shit for a few days; so what is the best way for us to W/D? Should we withdraw at different times that way we have someone who can help us or do it together? Also any tips on how to help that if muscle and back pain start this time when W/D so that we can walk?

I have read on a forum of using the thomas cure (I think that was the name). In that cure it says to buy certain vitamins and take xanax to help get through the first 3-5 days. Does the thomas cure work; if so what if more information on it?

I also have 4 suboxone strips I could use but do not want to start at a clinic and take them everyday. If i take the subs I would use them in a way similar to doing 1/4th the first 2 days; then an 1/8 the next 2days after that I would take no more subs! When I stop using on day 4 will this have helped, make me get worse, or prolong my withdrawal?

Any answers to questions in my post would be greatly appreciated!! Also does anyone has any other tips or advice that will help me get off them without feeling like I did those 12 hours (if more information is needed to help I can provide it)? Also is there anyway to know how bad my withdrawal symptoms are going to be?

 

[simco]

Hi, PureBlend, and welcome to both BL and SL (Sober Living)! Just wanted to mention that I took some liberties editing your post to make it easier for folks to read your story and questions.

Lots of folks here will have good information for you (I also encourage you to browse through some of the recent threads on SL...questions similar to yours are pretty common, and many of them have been answered very well.

But...here are a few thoughts.

1. The vitamins and benzos you mentioned from the Thomas cure are probably spot on (though I'm not sure exactly which vitamins you're looking at).

2. There are lots of other comfort meds out there that can ease acute WDs, including gabapentin, clonidine, immodium...I'm sure I'm forgetting others.

I do have one question for you. Actually, it's kinda two questions. You mentioned being reluctant to length your use of subs. Is this because you don't want to get dependent on them? What are your plans/goals recovery-wise? If you're interested in stopping and staying stopped, you might want to consider a structured, longer term use of subs. Obviously, they help tremendously with WD symptoms. They often also make it much easier for people to continue abstinence from opioid abuse. And finally, when you're ready to move on from those, a well-planned, gradual taper can get you off of subs with relatively little discomfort.

Anyhow, it's all good--what you choose with the subs, what your goals are, etc. Just my 0.02.

I'm sure you'll get more info soon. Do reach out if you think of additional questions you'd like to ask. And best luck!

Sim

 

[pureblend]

what to use for fyntal W/D? Subs, Gabapentin, Lyrica, xanax, and Clonidine?

I don't think I need all these drugs to W/D from fyntal but I have access to them. I can get 2 of the 8mmg Suboxone strips and have accesses to Gabapentin, Lyrica, xanax, and Clonidine. I am going to go through fyntal Withdrawal what is the best way to use these meds? Should I use some medicines and not others for my W/D method. What is the safest, quickest, and least painful method to withdraw from Fyntal with what I have available? Any advice on what to use and how much of it to use would be helpful. I have never been through a W/D before but know it is going to be painful. Please feel free to post any advice and any methods you have used to W/D or heard of using to W/D. The more I know about the medicines and how to use them properly the easier the W/D I will have.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Apologies no one got back to you sooner OP! To answer your questions, I have more questions

You mean fentanyl? With buprenorphine (Suboxone), gabapentin and clonidine you will be just fine. The alprazolam (Xanax) is not ideal, as it is so short acting, but it is better to have a benzo than not so that will also be useful. Honestly, unless you run out of gabapentin, you shouldn't really need the pregabalin (Lyrica).

We need to know a bit more about your habit before we can gauge what your withdrawal's syndrome will look like. How long have you been using opioids? Fentanyl? How much do you normally use, how often do you normally use and what route of administration (cheeking/sublingual, smoking, injecting, sniffing, etc) do you normally use?

Generally speaking you will want to use the buprenorphine, gabapentin, clonidine and alprazolam during days 1-7 to manage the acute withdrawal. With fentanyl you'll find the worst of the withdrawal pretty well over by day 4, though this all comes down to what your habit actually looks like (it may take less or more time).

 

[Nomasfent]

Hi Pureblend, I am trying to get off Fentanly too ...seems like i have been trying since I started on it ..I have been on it for about 6 years after not doing very well taking loratabs for a couple years.... I was taking to many and ran out too soon, so was switched to fentanyl ... Today is my 4 day of dropping my dose of 50 MCG patch every 72 hours.... I am now at 25 mcg every48 hours and I am not sure what will be next drop but I am trying to get level at this dosage, and be able to stay at the 25s for the 72 hrs mark, then stay for about a week or 2 ..I also take clonapins and also plaqunel for my lupus , ambien ...I bought immonduim and also vit c and have kratom on its way I have never taken kratom and I am not sure I will actually use it but just in case I thought maybe it would be good to have just in case ...

 

[pureblend]

I was snorting around 1,700mcg of Fenatanly a day I manage to taper doing about 500mcg a day over the past month. I have only been using for around 5months. The only way I can taper and do less is with the help of adderal and Xanax. I have 2 suboxone strips I could taper with but would rather not use as I'm afraid I'll trade one addiction for another. I will have enough Xanax that it not lasting long won't be a problem at all! I will have gabapentin the day before or the day I start my W/D. I also have every vitamin listed for Thomas cure. I have no colnidine but have a doctors appt Monday to get a new ashma inhaler. Is it a good idea while at this appointment to come clean about my situation and I tell her Tuesday(day after I see doctor) I am starting my W/D? Should I try to get prescribed colnidine and other medications like never and muscle relaxer? I also am not prescribed gabapentin should I ask my doctor for a script of that? Iam not sure what to expect and if telling my doctor will make it worse or if they will help. In about 3 weeks I take a trip by flight so anything not prescribed can not come with me! What is the best way to go about this?

 

[Jabberwocky]

Wow that is a lot of fent!

Hi Pureblend, I am trying to get off Fentanly too ...seems like i have been trying since I started on it ..I have been on it for about 6 years after not doing very well taking loratabs for a couple years.... I was taking to many and ran out too soon, so was switched to fentanyl ... Today is my 4 day of dropping my dose of 50 MCG patch every 72 hours.... I am now at 25 mcg every48 hours and I am not sure what will be next drop but I am trying to get level at this dosage, and be able to stay at the 25s for the 72 hrs mark, then stay for about a week or 2 ..I also take clonapins and also plaqunel for my lupus , ambien ...I bought immonduim and also vit c and have kratom on its way I have never taken kratom and I am not sure I will actually use it but just in case I thought maybe it would be good to have just in case ...

Welcome to BL Nomasfent!

 

[Nomasfent]

Wow that seems like a lot I think if you have a good relationship with your doc you may want to let them know and have them help you safely, hopefully someone with more knowledge than me can give you some better advice... When is your plan to stop and are you going to try and tayper at all ? do you have enough to even try to drop the dose a lil bit at a time ? how long have you been using that much for ? that will probably be a part of how bad and how long the w/d last at least I think it will from what I have been reading on these boards ... I have not ried any of the things you have listed as helpers and I am thinking I may ask my doc for some of that stuff too if it gets to be too much for on my own ... I wish you good luck please keep me posted on how it going their does not seem to be too many people I have seen on the forum w/d from feyntanl

My lil 50mcg patch seems hard enough on me and I am tapering, so its not hardcore withdrawals yet anyways ....

I have experienced withdrawals back before I started my fent because of loratabs. I took to many and my doc said no more of that, and then I was put on the patch ...and those 3 days were my first experience with withdrawals,and I had no clue what it was like and it was awful and only 3 days because I was able to get on the fentanyl... it was bad enough that it really has never left my thoughts because I knew eventually I would be getting off of the fent

Getting off of it is my own choice..I worry that the FDA is going to put their foot down of pain management or I don't know, I just feel like its time to give it up ...when I started my pain managment I was having health issues taking like 8 ibrprofins a day they damaged my esopagus long story but I managed as long as I could with over the counter stuff and I think, I hope, I have overcome the ones that caused me the most pain..Have had a few surgeries and I am hopeful to manage my pain with over the counter stuff but not 8 ibruprofins a day .....I am just tired of fenyt ruling my life from planing my days to only do things on my feel good days, even to when I poop, because the stuff gets me so blocked up I have to take milk of magnesia every 3 days and I don't even want to leave the house on those days, its really the only thing that works fro me, but can't trust a fart on it and one of my surgery's has left me unable to burp or vomit.... so one of my major fears is getting nausea, then the dry heaves and if they don't stop, I end up in the hospital, last time was 3 days after lil 12 hours of dry heaving, my husband had to call a ambulance after I was doing it for 3 hours at home, because nothing was making it stop and I thought I was going to have a heart attack it was so painful...

 

[Nomasfent]

Thanks for the welcome toothpastedog .. I have been lurking on these boards off and on for about 8 years now and that was my very first post ..I think I am really serious about quitting this time for real ...

 

[Nomasfent]

sorry pureblend I see you have your info posted and have been tapering... Please forgive my brain its a bit mushy 5 days into my own taper ...

So now I have a question for you how many days between tapers did you notice it seem to mellow out ? I feel like it might be mellowing to this new dose today a but but this was my put my 25mcg patch on day and I woke at 2 am with the buzzy head and had to...... I was really trying to wait till like 7 am but I just couldn't I also took a shower and I never get up at 2 am and randomly take a hot shower ..I have been awake since then and I hope I sleep some tonight last night was about 4 hours so that honestly I think was pretty good I take ambien and melitonin to help me sleep

 

[MrRoot]

Pureblend, have you thought about the reasons you become addicted into opiates?

Getting through the acute physiological phase is actually quite easy in my opinion but it can become quite nasty after the psychological part of the withdrawals ranks up the pace.

As soon as you feel able to from the physiological withdrawal symptoms I would advise you to start doing some physical exercise in whatever form suits you to get your endorphines up and running.

Then you might feel like having to fill up all that spare time you got which was occupied by being high. You could start looking into things which made you feeling happy before and you can always try something new too if you don't like the things you've done in the past anymore.

Then it might be a time to start identifying and dealing with the problems that lead into drug abuse and if you feel like you can't deal on your own then seek guidance, support groups, therapy and whatever form of help you might need.

Sober Living as a subforum is a good source of knowledge and support and I even believe that for some it might itself be a tool good enough to get better as in a form of staying clean or keeping the use in within the set limits (although I do believe that most of the people who have truly abused opioids of their choice cannot ever go back into using moderately).

Keep on coming here and just ask about anything that comes into your mind and feel free to vent out or just to check in and telling how you have been progressing.

 

[Nomasfent]

In doing more reading around bl seems people do not think it's good to bring up with your doctor I honestly don't know ...i have a hard enough time talking to my doctor and he prescribes my meds ugh I want off this rollercoaster so badly myself ....How are you feeling today ?

 

[Jabberwocky]

Talking about what with your doctor? In specific I mean?

Generally speaking an open dialogue with your doctor is preferable to a relationship where you feel you have to hide thing from or manipulate them in order to meet your needs.

Perhaps we can help you find a way to work with your doctor to get your needs met Nomasfent?

 

[Nomasfent]

I don't manipulate or lie i am very honest with him....I just always worry that there will be some new rule about medications..

about a year ago the FDA decided women had to be cut back on Ambien no warning just that's how it is now so I guess my worry is more of a what rule are they going to change next kinda thing ..

i like my doctor very much he listens and has helped me over the past 8 years or so when I showed up very very sick and could not find any answers to why ... he found answers and has got me stable and I went from practically bedridden to be able to do more things ...i guess I just worded my post wrong ...

 

[Jabberwocky]

It's all good, lots of stuff gets lost in translation in the forums at times. I was just curious if you had heard of some new bill they were trying to pass or something in the US. Things are a little unpredictable right now in terms of what de facto and de jure gov't policy is gonna be related to medicine, drugs and substance use.

It is just so hard to taper using fentanyl. It is too short acting. Really the patient should be switched to at least something like morphine, if not methadone, if they have been prescribed fent long term of chronic pain.

 

[Nomasfent]

It's all good, lots of stuff gets lost in translation in the forums at times. I was just curious if you had heard of some new bill they were trying to pass or something in the US. Things are a little unpredictable right now in terms of what de facto and de jure gov't policy is gonna be related to medicine, drugs and substance use.

It is just so hard to taper using fentanyl. It is too short acting. Really the patient should be switched to at least something like morphine, if not methadone, if they have been prescribed fent long term of chronic pain.

I hope links are ok I just read this today so what seen the other day was correct its just suggestions right now but ughhh.... scary stuff for those who suffer in pain daily https://arstechnica.com/science/201...ids-1-in-5-become-long-term-users/?comments=1

 

[Jabberwocky]

I saw that myself yesterday. TBH it seems a bit alarmist, but I can't find anything wrong with the study, other than perhaps some of the language (but that is par for the course in terms of reporting and addiction). I wish they put more effort into researching stuff like NMDAr antagonists (e.g. ketamine) in the treatment of chronic pain (not to mention other conditions such as anxiety, depression, substance use disorder, etc). They hold so much promise as a class of drugs over opioids in the treatment of many chronic conditions.

 

[Nomasfent]

I wish they would put more effort into those things to so people like me don't have to sit and wonder what on earth is going to happen if indeed they do yank peoples medications from them ...I already had my ambien that was working ok yanked down in dose so I know they have the power to make these things happen... without even considering I did not have any issues taking the 10 mg tablet but since some other ladies did then we are all tossed in the same pot ....

 

[Jabberwocky]

I mean, doctors for the most part do the best they can. However, they have very little training in managing substance use disorder, and there is a lot more work that needs to be done in terms of just learning about the mechanisms at work with it on a biopsychosocial level.

Really the issue with misprescribind meds and treating a condition like chronic pain has more to do with the assumption that the condition could be treated merely with medication or some other relatively quick fix to begin with.

In my mind it comes down to what is the more sustainable, longer term solution with any chronic condition (the nature of the condition is "chronic" after all) than what is going to provide the quickest most dramatic relief (I am arguing for prioritizing quality over quantity - "good things take time" and all that jazz). And providing long term results is of utmost concern when addressing conditions significantly impacting one's quality of life, it is definitely more often the case than not).

 

[Nomasfent]

I have done them all physical therapy steroid shots in my back my shoulder was able to get surgery on that and that fix that up so that's good ......all over body pain from the fibromyalgia that's just a really weird thing to have one minute you're fine the next minute you feel like your turn to Stone and you can't move
.
I feel so bad that I even have to be on a board like this to figure things out because of Articles like that and what happened with the Ambien.....
but in my mind I feel no different than somebody that's taking heroin to control their pain maybe I see things wrong I know a lot of people do it to get high ....there's stories of other people doing H because they could not get their regular meds after they lost their insurance and so they end up on heroin for pain control and it seems like that just goes downhill and a big way quick .......just such a mess and I don't want to end up having to go to the streets and get on heroin ...