• H&R Moderators: VerbalTruist | cdin | Lil'LinaptkSix

Detox Quitting H CT

It can't be that fucked up, because I switched for the same exact reason. I remember the day I stuck my arm and thinking "this is a huge mistake." It certainly was. In a way, I'm lucky that things got so bad so quickly, because I'm hoping my brain will heal faster than if I had been using for 2+ years. I also know that eventually, I was going to OD. I'm not sure how much more the body can handle at 2 gs per day.
 
Sim, don't worry at all, I didn't take any negative connotations from your replies and advice. I've read through tons of your prior posts and I hope you are doing as well as possible now. It sounds like we all need each other in times like these.

SK, thanks for checking in, are you feeling better today. I'm 7 days clean as of tomorrow, I could kick myself though because if I hadn't had that quick lapse, I'd be close to 3 weeks. Onward and upward though, no dwelling on the mistake.

I made myself go for a 3 mile walk/jog today, got some juices flowing and it's AMAZING to be able to able to breathe freely. That was probably the worst physical effects of the opiates, my lungs were full of fluid and green shit. The first week I was coughing it all up every single day. It's much better now. I joined a gym today as well. One of the best things I've read on BL is to wait out cravings, even if it's just 15 minutes. THEY WILL AND DO PASS. Looking to get to a meeting soon. I have a good friend that is also trying to get off the junk but seems to be struggling more than I am unfortunately. He's quit for over a year before, but is back to square one now. Today will be two days clean for him. I'm not really sure what to do in this situation. I want to do it together because I know it will help him (and hopefully both of us). However, if he keeps cracking then I might have to cut ties from him for a while. What do y'all think?

It's funny how about 3mi feels just about right to me when it comes to trail running/jogging/hiking myself :)

In terms of yourself, you are doing great. You're in early recovery, so for now just focus on taking care of yourself and your body-mind's needs (getting enough sleep, healthy diet, aerobic exercise, etc). For myself, and most people I know, the trick seems to lay more in the struggle to establish health habits during those "fresh" first 90 days than it does in terms of struggling with cravings. It's great your going to meetings, having a support group IRL is an essential piece of the puzzle.

You can't be there for your friend if you aren't able to take care of yourself. That is the simple (if hard) reality. Making you and your recovery, whatever it means, the priority should be the focus IMO. First you need to demonstrate to yourself you can take care of your own self before moving on to being. It's a lot harder to take care of one's own needs when one is taking care of someone else's need instead. You get the idea.

It's great to have friend in recovery, especially early in the game - especially GOOD friends. But when they were people we have used with or whatever in the past, or if they have their own issues they are struggling with in terms of addiction and/or mental health, these individuals need their own support. Generally speaking the advice given is that as you are early in your own recovery OP, you aren't really healthy enough to be able to effectively care for both yourself and another person at this time. In your case, who knows, it always depends.

You've clearly a really good head on your shoulders. I enjoyed reading that wall of text up there. I'd suggest providing support for your friend by setting a good example in order for you to keep your options open and work on your own self for the foreseeable future.

What are your thoughts about moving forward with your formal recovery and the situation with your job? Formal treatment now may in fact be your best bet given your present (if you want to collect unemployment/disability, etc, that is), but it is of course up to you (although it is a shame you've rules out the more effective treatments for folks like us already).
 
TPD,

Thank you for the words of support, they mean a lot to me and it's a nice little push to just keep on keepin on. Speaking of which, today is day 8 and I'm still going strong. Unfortunately, I can't say the same about my friend. He broke after 4 days, today actually. He's blaming it on the fact that he's getting kicked out of his girlfriend's house because the landlord found out he was living there. I'm thinking he's going to ask me to help but I can't have him here, especially if he's not clean. It sucks to turn a friend away but you're 100% right, I have to take care of myself right now. That's my number one priority.

I fall into your same group when it comes to early recovery. I'm having a tough time getting energized at all. There are good days and bad days, today was kind of a bad one where I just sat and watched Netflix all day. That certainly doesn't get one feeling good about themselves. Tomorrow will be a better day. I don't have a huge support network yet, other than all of you kind folks. My 5-year girlfriend is aware of opiates but I couldn't get specific with her. She's been amazing. For one, she's staying with me, and has been very supportive. But it took her a few weeks to be ok talking about it and I know she's still not comfortable. Having never been an addict to anything, shes having a tough time understanding. My folks don't know either, as they would show up at my doorstep tomorrow if they did.

To answer your questions...specifically the first one, I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet. There are plenty of opportunities, but since I officially ended yesterday, I need to talk to the two folks that I made a ton of money for and see if they'll give me a reference. Also, I'm not ready to start working again. I did 5 years of 55-60 hours/week, and I need a break...so I'm trying to view this recovery as a blessing in multiple ways. I have a few months of mortgage saved up, so I have a bit of a cushion now that my money isn't going to dope. What more effective treatments are you referring to? Rehab costs money, and I'd lose my gf and probably give Mom a heart attack. She takes every mistake on herself, in a really shitty and hopeless kind of way. I can't stand to see her blaming herself for the mess I've created. Any thoughts are welcome. Thanks again for replying sir.
 
No problem, though it's always a little amusing being called sir (though I'll take the compliment thank you) :)

By other more effective treatments (when it comes to opioid use disorder) I wasn't thinking of rehab actually, I was thinking of some kind of six month extended detox (really it's just a short maintenance program that consists of stabilizing you on a dose of an ORT medication - buprenorphine or methadone in the US - and as soon as your stabilized beginning to taper you down off it, ending around the six month point of being on it. That in combination with therapy and/or a worthwhile, modern outpatient based abstinence oriented psychoeducational program gives any serious opioid user such as yourself the best chances of success in recovery (given the current situation with how substance use disorder is treated in this country at least).

Is something like this absolutely necessary? No, I don't think it is, though I do think it could really benefit you by helping you to ensure a full six months of time away from your opioid(s) of choice. As this is your first time really trying to quit (I think that is correct), buprenorphine would probably be advisable over methadone, and naltrexone extended release injections (Vivitrol) might even be worth a try. Basically what I am trying to say is that there is a lot of highly (and not so highly) effective pharmacotherapic support for recovering opioid addicts that are rarely taken advantage of because they are (mistakenly) seen as a "lessor, illegitimate" form of medicine by the more small minded, somewhat backwards recovery movement.

The rates of success between just going to rehab and 12 step meetings versus getting some form of abstinence based treatment, going to meetings and using MAT/ORT is really astounding (it's like 5% versus 50%).

I'm glad to hear you are able to see this as an opportunity, possibly even a career change. That kind of stress on the job literally will kill (as it nearly did yourself now I think about it).

And hell fuck yes tomorrow is a new day. That is the kind of perspective that can see you through the long haul with this! I personally couldn't agree more - it's I'd had a shit day and all I want to do is get fucked up, even if it's Friday night, I know I always have the option of just having a nice supper early, watching a movie or reading and going to bed super early at 8pm. It is hardly cool (I'm 29, not exactly normal behavior in the circles I've run in), but if I'm really doing that bad I need to take care of myself, fuck whatever anyone else things. And without fail, the next day is always easier to deal with than how I felt before falling asleep.

Keep up the good work!
 
Thanks TPD, I really appreciate your insight as always.

I do not want to give off the impression that I'm too good for MAT/ORT stuff. That's really not the case at all. However, for one, my insurance will lapse at the end of the month. Secondly, before my drug issues, I lived a very physical life in terms of hobbies. I was an adrenaline junky long before the dope, although I bet that's common among users. I've been through quite a few serious injuries from downhill longboarding and surfing and I plan to resume that lifestyle. That said, I don't want my medical profile getting flagged as an opioid abuser because if I get hurt again, I might need them for legitimate reasons. Maybe that's backward thinking and I should recognize it as such. I'm not really sure right now.

Your last point is spot on as well and I can certainly relate. Most of my buddies (clean ones) are still all about the bar scene and partying and there's nothing wrong with that. But I need to avoid that scene for now until I'm deeper into recovery. Sleeping has been tough but I do have a trazadone script. 4 of those bad boys and you're gonna get 8 hours whether you want to or not. But you're right, whenever I have a bad day, the next day is always a little better and a new opportunity to be active. Gonna go for another run with the pooch now. Talk to all of y'all soon.
 
Oh yeah, I call everyone sir or ma'am, it's something I've picked up since living down south. Don't worry, I wasn't implying that you're an old guy or anything like that, just a show of respect. I have tons of it for you and the others here in SL.
 
It's all good O2, I am the son of a guy who's biological family is mostly from the South (and Texas), and my adopted grandparents are from Louisiana... anyhoo I don't mind. I took it as a compliment indeed - it isn't often I, let alone anyone, is sir'd on BL ;)

No, you should absolutely avoid getting labeled an "addict" by the medical establishment if at all possible (really what I mean is the medical billing and insurance establishment...). TBH I do regret how I handled my "coming out" about my opioid use disorder in my attempt to get help, as I didn't go about it nearly as thoughtfully or maturely as you are now.

I have mixed feelings about trazadone. Now that I'm long off opioids, I'd rather have insomnia than take it, but it was a god send for quite some time while transitioning.
 
Just curious, tpd...is there a pharmacological reason to avoid trazadone?
 
Well, like any other medication or substance, it isn't entirely benign. It's hard to describe, but I feel a bit more with it and alert when I'm not taking it every night.

There is certainly a well known hangover associated with trazadone (granted it is quite subtle for me, not at all like alcohol, MDMA or DXM). Another big issue is that it has a host of side effects (most notable IME dehydration) that I personally need to avoid for my health's sake (I did a number on my kidneys and liver - nothing I can't recover from with healthy habits, but definitely something I need to watch out and care for).

It was easier to deal with and put up with the side effects of trazadone when there was more of a need to take it regularly to manage the insomnia/anxiety attendant of my experience of PTSD, but now that the need has dissipated so too has my tolerance for putting up with the side effects.

All and all it's a pretty good medication for most people, avoiding the issues related to dependency that a lot of other sleep aids have and helping to treat depression/anxiety (actually it is a great PTSD med for a lot of people). But like all medication and substances there is a necessary cost-benefit analysis that should be done before committing to course of treatment with it.
 
Well..I fucked up. I don't know why I did it, while I was driving to cop I remember thinking, "what the fuck are you doing you've done so well so far." I was clean for 10 days, then broke for 4 days, and today is the first new day clean. I'm only about 16 hours in so far, so no nasty WDs yet. That's what I'm most anxious about right now. I was past the acute WDs initially, so now I'm just anxiously waiting for hour 24, 36, 48 and then 72 to get here. I deserve to go through it again...just trying to figure out how I'm going to handle it with my gf being around all weekend. Hopefully they won't be nearly as bad as the first time around.

I could kick myself for messing up. So much for two weeks in...day one started this morning. I'll be happy in 12-24 hours because at least then I'll know what I've gotten myself into physically.
 
Please try not to be so hard on yourself Iamoxygen! This isn't an easy thing you're undertaking. Frankly, I wouldn't even think of this as a false start or anything because it led you to the insight you had while you were driving to cop. All that happened was that, by the time you had the insight your body was already in using mode, and once I get in using mode it's pretty hard to stop me from getting high short of involving the police. Do what you can to try and take this experience for the blessing in disguise it may just end up becoming. In my mind that will mean you need to be extra kind and gentle with yourself right now.

Four days is just barely long enough to begin developing withdrawal syndrome again, so if you do end up with a little kick it won't be anything as bad as what you just detoxed from. Won't be fun, but it won't be nearly as uncomfortable.

Are you doing anything to help give yourself some stability as you reassess your situation with all this? Keep your head up Iamoxygen!
 
Thanks TPD, really thank you. Self medicating with booze right now, not always a great idea but it does pass the time. Serves me right if this puts me right back in the throws of WD. Thank you for the quick reponse. I'll continue to update...
 
Always. This is why we are here :)

p.s. I know you didn't mean it this way, but no one deserves to experience the throws of alcohol withdrawal. There are so many so readily available medications to manage the withdrawal, it makes my heart quiver whenever I hear from someone who isn't able to access the support they deserve. Used to make me angry, but thankfully these days I have learned to be a bit more skillful with my feelings.

p.p.s. Thinking of you and sending you some much needed <<{{{((((<3))))}}}>>!
 
Thank you so much my friend, I really mean that. I hear what you're saying about alcohol dependency, 100%. Health problems from alcoholism are what put me on opes in the first place, since I had to stop drinking for about six months. I was shocked that after a few years of consuming 6-8 beers/night, I didn't have any noticeable alcohol wd symptoms to note, nothing physical anyways.
I know it must be frustrating to deal with folks like myself, that won't take the steps to get on maintenance meds or things like that. My insurance lapses in about 7 days...but mainly I just don't want any doctors to label me or my medical record as an opiate addict. Bad excuse I know. Also, in a weird way, as much as wds suck, I kinda feel like I need the punishment to help remind me of what I've created. Kinda like the whole "you made your bed, now you have to sleep in it" saying.

I'm on hour 40 now and am back in wd, although it's definitely not as bad as coming off my original habit. No vomiting (yet) or RLS. Just chills, headache, diarrhea and the racing thoughts...heavy lethargy, no motivation to even get off the couch, stuff like that. I can handle this one compared to the first time going through it. Hopefully it will run its course a little faster this time around. I need to be more active tomorrow as I won't have the luxury of being alone. I have an addy script that I might take triple the dosage tomorrow to see if it really helps get through wds.
 
You are very welcome :)

Please be real careful with the amphetamines. Some people find it is helpful during the day, but I always hated the way stims made me feel when I was kicking - particularly amphetamine salts. Dose really conservatively and only take them early in the day, avoiding caffeine and really only if you absolutely have to take them to begin with.

Adderall and Dexedrine just seemed to make my opioid withdrawal worse when it was all I had in college and I had to force myself to get work done while in the throw of withdrawals or something. Full disclosure: I have used methamphetamine while kicking before and it has been helpful to get me through days two-three, and I have heard that small doses of methamp have helped others before. It's far, far, far from ideal, but it is what it is. Hopefully you can muster up some more useful comfort meds!

Keep you head up, it's only a few more days and you'll be over the hump! Any chance you could order some kratom or something? That would undoubtably be infinitely better for you than amphetamines.
 
Well...I'm back to square one as of today, and I totally deserve to be here. I went on a 7-day binge again, I don't know what the fuck leads me to that, but it happened so I can't deny it. I was hit with a very firm reminder as to why it's not doable for multiple reason though a main one sticks out. My lungs simply can't take it. And now that I don't have health insurance, I can't just go on steroid regiments like I used to do to balance out the using. I made the decision yesterday that I was done after my last use at 9pm. Today I can't even walk up the stairs of my house without being completely out of breath. This day couldn't end fast enough because I know that the breathing will get better every single day that I don't use. I'm just in a horrible place mentally today, well right now actually. Going to try to take the dog for a walk now, hopefully will make it without passing out.
 
There will always be ups and downs. I just read this entire thread and have noticed that although you do slip up from time to time, you're able to get good clean time in between. It's sort of like you're conditioning yourself for the final push. For the time that I finally quit, the thing that has kept me away from it is to remind myself how bad it is in reality. God forbid you pick some up and get pulled over, jail time and a destroyed career. Or if they cut it with chemicals, death. Things like that help reinforce in my head at least that using is an awful idea, plus the amount of money we've literally thrown away in the process. You can always message me and you'll get an answer as I check the site multiple times each day!
 
Thanks Mike, I really appreciate that and you're exactly right. In the periods of clean time, I did it mainly by reminding myself of the breathing issues, wds, and other awful problems that arise every time I use for a consistent period. I'm always able to make it through the acute wd phase, it's when I'm healthy and back to "normal" that I end up screwing up. It's like the longer I'm away from the stuff, the easier it is to forget how bad it is. I'm in the position now where you just want the next three days to fly by because you know you'll feel better at that time, but you don't want to wait it out. Unfortunately I know it's the only way.
 
Glad to see you back OP! Please try not to be too hard on yourself about this. It happens, what counts is that you're back in the game already and clearly trying hard not to get to wrapped up in feeling of shame or guilt or an imagined sense of failure.

I know you weren't interested in it before, but down the road if you continue to struggle, don't forget there are other options for you out there in terms of treatment than just trying to white knuckle it (as goes the saying).

From what you've shared, I am confident in your ability to turn this lapse into a learning experience, this challenge into an opportunity for continued development and personal growth. Keep your head up! As you know, you only really fail once you stop trying. And as you also know, it's certainly one of the most worthwhile struggle we will ever have to face in our lives.

There will always be ups and downs. I just read this entire thread and have noticed that although you do slip up from time to time, you're able to get good clean time in between. It's sort of like you're conditioning yourself for the final push. For the time that I finally quit, the thing that has kept me away from it is to remind myself how bad it is in reality. God forbid you pick some up and get pulled over, jail time and a destroyed career. Or if they cut it with chemicals, death. Things like that help reinforce in my head at least that using is an awful idea, plus the amount of money we've literally thrown away in the process. You can always message me and you'll get an answer as I check the site multiple times each day!

This is fantastic fucking advice!
 
Thanks TPD, the fact that you always respond is kind of a godsend really. I use this site for help when I screw up, but also when I think I might slip up soon. Someone always responds and that's just huge to me. This case is obviously the former. The day is almost over, which means I can get some sleep soon and at my lungs will feel better tomorrow. I tried going for a walk, only made it 100 yards before I had to stop and turn around. As I tried to get back to my house I had to sit on an electric box and almost passed out from lack of air. This alone is eniuh motivation to quit. Fuck this drug, the fact that I know it does this and still use it is insane. I'm done with it and need to maintain that state of mind.
 
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