5-HTP + L-Tryptophan et al: not having the desired effect

[Tallbuilding]

Hey guys,

So I looked up that 5-HTP + L-Tryptophan + Vitamin B Complex has amazing results for Anxiety/Depression/Low mood, so I decided to try it out. A few weeks in and i've noticed nothing, and if anything taking them makes me feel a bit zoned out and even more anxious (ironically). I definitely don't feel more energetic after taking l-tryptophan, and I feel very little, if any, mood benefit from taking 5-HTP. I also tried Rhodiola, but I felt no different after that either (despite being labelled as one of the more safe mood boosting supplements),

So I was wondering if it is more common than I think for people not to get the desired feeling after taking supplements such as these? I see all the reviews on combos like these and my hopes are raised, only for me to try them myself and to feel no different. Even OptiNeuro, for £40, and constant reviews of 5* on amazon had barely any effect on my cognitive and concentration abilities,

Thanks all!

 

[Volsam]

Try adding D,L-phenylalanine (around 500-600mg) + noopept (around 20-30mg) + agmatine (around 300-600mg) to your daily vitamins and omega oils. Also try adding Rhodiola again to that stack and see if it works now.

Took me a while before I have figured out what works for me and what brands you buy is important too.

 

[dicko89]

Agree with Volsam^^ i came off a heavy dose of bud daily morning until night by using 5-htp the solgar brand so fairly expensive and it did work for me but as you know its down to the Pearson and will power,im now on venlafaxine so cannot take due to serotine levels. Hope all is ok mate

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Try taking fish oil, eating right, getting enough sleep and not staying up too late or sleeping too much, exercise, and vitamin D.

 

[WSH]

Hey guys,

So I looked up that 5-HTP + L-Tryptophan + Vitamin B Complex has amazing results for Anxiety/Depression/Low mood

Which double blind studies from reputable universities published in reputable journals did you look up?

The general consensus is that serotonin precursors are not very effective in depression.

 

[serotonin2A]

Which double blind studies from reputable universities published in reputable journals did you look up?

The general consensus is that serotonin precursors are not very effective in depression.

This is a combination of placebo effect and confirmation bias (people who feel better post about their experiences, whereas those who are still depressed are less motivated to write about the failure). Individual patients may genuinely feel better, but there is no way for them to know if the medication is responsible -- about 30% of depressed patients reliably improve after placebo treatment, and taking a subjectively "active" drug is likely to enhance placebo response; that is why people run clinical trials, and the trials haven't yielded evidence that serotonin precursors are more effective antidepressants than placebo.

It isn't uncommon for 5-HTP to produce anxiety.

 

[d1nach]

Its extremely common i used these dietary supplements and commited suicide and had to learn to walk again i take lithium and effexor now and havent had any suicidal thoughts or actions in years.

Some people may experience benefit. However, if you have severe depression the evidence of ancedotal claims no matter how great isnt enough

 

[WSH]

^Okay...

I can say I've had significant mood lift from 5-HTP.

You can't subjectively determine the significance of the antidepressant effects of 5-htp.
That's what placebo-controlled double blind clinical trials are for.

 

[d1nach]

Ur in yhe neuroscience section your likely to get peoplr very passionate about a math and science approach. Some people do find it helps them have u heard of scholar.google basically its a great tool

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

Yep. Wasn't trying to imply such. It appears my understanding of clinical significance is lacking. Well, if anyone can please extrapolate with studies describing the efficiency 5-htp, I would be much obliged.

What seems to be agreed upon is that some people with particular genetics have depression that is sensitive to dietary tryptophan depletion - in this sense, tryptophan supplementation may help with depression if you are lacking in daily protein intake and have the relevant neurobiology.

I believe there is a study showing tryptophan can help increase sleep depth as well, but I can't recall if they were very well controlled studies (using placebos).

 

[F'Loki]

To be honest you are better off with St. John's Wort. There's actually much better evidence it works. In fact it is now a controlled substance in many EU countries because of this and reports of negative interactions with other anti-depressants and birth control.
It's worth a shot for low to moderate grade depression (and anxiety/insomnia), research has actually isolated some of the chemicals in it that are believed to be the active agents.

Skullcap has also been studied by Penn State and Maryland Medical University and is said to have evidence of anti-anxiety and depression properties.
Lemon Balm has also been shown to work on GABA-A in rats. So limited evidence for that too.

But as always with herbs there is always "more research needed" that never seems to get done. And people eternally argue it's because big pharma don't want drugs they can't patent and drugs that aren't addictive because they'd lose massive amounts of profits vs. herbs are complete hogwash.

Personally I have found a mix of St. John's Wort, Skullcap, Lemon Balm, Valerian Root and Chamomile is a good combination for insomnia, depression and anxiety, and they are working for well for benzo withdrawals and tapering. But lifestyle changes in synergy with these are also essential, don't expect a miracle "magic bullet" cure in a supplement or herb: There isn't one. The reality is we have to develop better habits if suffering from mental health problems, addiction etc. Good sleep hygiene, exercise, diet and mindfulness meditation (even 10 minutes a day) as well as 'play time' are all areas we have to put the effort in to address the issue.

F'loki

 

[Tallbuilding]

Thanks for your response. It's not so much that i'm extremely depressed (although a few years back this was the case, and I was on Citalopram for about 7 months), but it's that now I want something to help with my anxiety. Is there anything else that you could recommend? There are lots of supplements out there for treatment regarding this, but I just can't find something that is helping me. The side effects of these supplements, eg: anxiety, being 'zoned out', etc, seem to overpower any positive benefits (if any!)

 

[d1nach]

Imo any antianxiety effects from supplements are generally light and unlike say benzos only increase your ability to tolerate stress by general health promoting mechanism like antioxidents rather than strongly interacting with specific receptors able to drastically alter anxiety levels

 

[sekio]

I always maintain that anyone wanting to use 5-HTP or tryptophan, L-DOPA etc would be better off just eating more protein in their diet. Any of those purportedly monoamine-boosting supplements have only minor transient effects in double-blind studies on healthy individuals.

 

[d1nach]

I agree seiko sums it up accurately

 

[Tranced]

Thanks for your response. It's not so much that i'm extremely depressed (although a few years back this was the case, and I was on Citalopram for about 7 months), but it's that now I want something to help with my anxiety. Is there anything else that you could recommend? There are lots of supplements out there for treatment regarding this, but I just can't find something that is helping me. The side effects of these supplements, eg: anxiety, being 'zoned out', etc, seem to overpower any positive benefits (if any!)

They tend to be hit and miss for most people. I've been through a lot of different nootropics and the one that i found to have a resounding effect on my anxiety was aniracetam & CDP Choline.

I've also had good effect from Rhodiola, although I was taking quite high doses, i.e 1g+ and it was mainly a stimulating effect.

I'd imagine something like the following is the case:

I would think that there are many different forms of depression each resulting from its unique neurotransmitter dysfunction etc. And with 5-htp being selective in the regions of the CNS/PNS it effects, along with not all depression being caused by an insufficient production of serotonin, I would think if this combo isn't working perhaps consult a doctor about it, if the depression is affecting you so heavily you cannot bear to function.

 

[Tallbuilding]

Hmm, interesting: so not to be simplistic about this, but would a more regular intake of protein, maybe in the form of protein shakes, help?

 

[Tallbuilding]

As regards Rhodiola, how long did you take 1g+ daily for? I hear that it's good to take breaks to stop a tolerance appearing too soon. I was thinking of getting Eclectic Institute Rhodiola as I hear it's the best

 

[d1nach]

Have you tried fish oil and decaf green tea?

If you have a diet as garbage as mine (mostly garbage not like cake but like cereal burgers microwave food ect) the omega 3 fatty acids and polyphenols in the tea might give you some of not all the benefit of the nonvitamin and minerals in healthy food that may be linked to their effects on mood.

 

[sekio]

Tea is not a source of omega-3, there is effectively no fat in tea.