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The Resurrection of Jesus

N9ne

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 5, 2017
Messages
27
Their are 6 facts about Jesus' resurrection story that even skeptics approve of. These have to include only the historical data that are strongly evidenced by multiple independent lines of argumentation, and only the data which are accepted as historical by virtually all historical scholars.

The facts that almost all of biblical scholars, secular skeptics included, say are historical facts are that Jesus died by crucifixion; Jesus' disciples had real experiences that they thought were appearances of Jesus after his death; the disciples were transformed even to the point of being willing to die for their message; Paul also had a similar appearance of Jesus and converted; while he was hunting down and killing Christians at that time; and the message was proclaimed within one or two years from the crucifixion.

Skeptic scholar James Crossley says "the resurrection appearances are some of the hardest, best evidence we have” because it’s early in the 1 Cor 15:3-8 creed, people were convinced that they had seen the risen Christ."

These are just minimal facts that attest to Jesus' resurrection. The disciples scattered and hide after Jesus was killed. They thought their leader was dead and gone and they didn't wanna have the same fate. But they never fully understood all the times he told them what was gonna happen to him.

The disciples suddenly came to believe so strongly that God had raised Jesus from the dead that they were then willing to die for the truth of that belief and some did. But then the obvious question arises: What in the world caused them to believe such an un-Jewish and outlandish thing? Luke Johnson, a New Testament says....., “Some sort of powerful, transformative experience is required to generate the sort of movement earliest Christianity was.” And N. T. Wright says,...“That is why, as an historian, I cannot explain the rise of early Christianity unless Jesus rose again, leaving an empty tomb behind him.”
 
The disciples suddenly came to believe so strongly that God had raised Jesus from the dead that they were then willing to die for the truth of that belief and some did. But then the obvious question arises: What in the world caused them to believe such an un-Jewish and outlandish thing?

Resurrection of the dead isn't at all an outlandish concept in Judaism, especially around the time of Jesus' life. In fact it was a pretty central belief to most Jews of the time.
 
I always used to be firmly in the "Jesus must have at least been based on a real man" camp but listening to Jesus mythicists like Robert M Price led me to believe the history is incredibly shaky. All we have as "proof" is copies of copies of copies and one or two real life mentions at least a hundred years out of the fact. The way mainstream history is set up they say there is enough proof, but there are serious doubts when you lay out all the information. Far more likely that Jesus was based on old myths, stories, several different gurus and prophets.
 
There is no hard evidence here, you also make an argument from authority by citing that biblical scholar as evidence. We aren't even sure Jesus existed and if he did, which I'll concede is a very real possibility, I haven't seen any evidence to prove he is the son of a god.

I would like some definitive evidence if you have it.
 
Let's not take it to a debate over the existence of Jesus, we've all been down that road in a hundred different ways. I'm curious as to what the man's point is.
 
Let's not take it to a debate over the existence of Jesus, we've all been down that road in a hundred different ways. I'm curious as to what the man's point is.

His point is about the same, goes to the same sources. It's the typical Christian arguments "why would people die for something if it wasn't true?"

Yawn. No proof that Christians killed themselves for their religion. Evidence points to the fact that they would have been killed anyways even if they repented. Also not real proof of anything, especially if you're part of a cult.
 
He's talking "facts" about the resurrection of Jesus so it seems to me he is openly encouraging a debate and if not then the only point of this thread is to preach about Jesus. That's the only real point in claiming these are facts which they certainly aren't.

So again I'd like some actual evidence to support that Jesus even existed let alone got resurrected and was the son of a god.
 
Yes but the topic is the resurrection of jesus, thus operating on an axiom of his existence. To come in and begin a debate about his existence is to derail the thread. I'm not saying it's not an important conversation to have, simply that this is not the place. That being said, none of that matters if OP never shows up again.
 
If you have faith, then the absence of his body, the alleged visitation of the angels, and the subsequent visions of Jesus himself are all signs he ascended to immortality status.

But I don't buy it.

He was a famous guy and the only thing securing his tomb was a boulder. Anyone could've moved it and taken him out. Okay so the women who visited the tomb saw angels who chastised them for "looking for the dead among the living". Are we supposed to trust the word of two pious women who clearly worshiped the ground Jesus walked on and the tomb his body rested in?

High level beings visiting them and Jesus appearing to others are all within the realm of possibility, I think. Even resurrection itself perhaps is possible. But visions don't mean he remained incarnate. Dead people visit the living all the time, it's no big feat. If they die in a high level state, then they become a conscious sort of dead person that can continue their work, along with their talents and gifts.

Daoism talks about this in great detail when it gives suggestion of how to achieve Immortal status. There are even Daoists who believe Immortals walk the Earth right now. If the person practiced high level cultivation within their lifetime then upon death the body sublimates into a neither-alive-nor-dead state. Free from the cycle of death and rebirth (which means starting over), they can achieve enlightenment at their own pace.
 
Their are 6 facts about Jesus' resurrection story that even skeptics approve of. These have to include only the historical data that are strongly evidenced by multiple independent lines of argumentation, and only the data which are accepted as historical by virtually all historical scholars.

The facts that almost all of biblical scholars, secular skeptics included, say are historical facts are that Jesus died by crucifixion; Jesus' disciples had real experiences that they thought were appearances of Jesus after his death; the disciples were transformed even to the point of being willing to die for their message; Paul also had a similar appearance of Jesus and converted; while he was hunting down and killing Christians at that time; and the message was proclaimed within one or two years from the crucifixion.

Skeptic scholar James Crossley says "the resurrection appearances are some of the hardest, best evidence we have” because it’s early in the 1 Cor 15:3-8 creed, people were convinced that they had seen the risen Christ."

These are just minimal facts that attest to Jesus' resurrection. The disciples scattered and hide after Jesus was killed. They thought their leader was dead and gone and they didn't wanna have the same fate. But they never fully understood all the times he told them what was gonna happen to him.

The disciples suddenly came to believe so strongly that God had raised Jesus from the dead that they were then willing to die for the truth of that belief and some did. But then the obvious question arises: What in the world caused them to believe such an un-Jewish and outlandish thing? Luke Johnson, a New Testament says....., “Some sort of powerful, transformative experience is required to generate the sort of movement earliest Christianity was.” And N. T. Wright says,...“That is why, as an historian, I cannot explain the rise of early Christianity unless Jesus rose again, leaving an empty tomb behind him.”


They story of Jesus Christ is a religious plagiarism of a story 3500 years older with the great egyptian Horus.

Christianity is a global rip-off of a religion and isn't even creative enough to make stuff up, they compiled a few books that was later merged into the Bible based on facts and life events of a previous "messiah" and they actually got away with it. The average human intellect proves this.

Horus was birthed to a virgin.
He made a live bird from clay.
He lectured the priests at a young age.
He walked on water.
He healed the sick and raised people from death.
He had 12 disciples.
He was crucified and died at 33.
He rose from the grave 3 days after burial.
Hmmm...sounds familiar doesn't it?



Google it, look into it. I don't care if you believe me or not, I couldn't give a rat's ass frankly. I know what I know.



Believe what you want to and believe what you have been conditioned with since birth and don't question anything, just like they conditioned you to do throughout all your years up until now, be a good boy and just take in what they tell you to do and stay in your naive state, just the way they want you.
 
They story of Jesus Christ is a religious plagiarism of a story 3500 years older with the great egyptian Horus.

Christianity is a global rip-off of a religion and isn't even creative enough to make stuff up, they compiled a few books that was later merged into the Bible based on facts and life events of a previous "messiah" and they actually got away with it. The average human intellect proves this.

Horus was birthed to a virgin.
He made a live bird from clay.
He lectured the priests at a young age.
He walked on water.
He healed the sick and raised people from death.
He had 12 disciples.
He was crucified and died at 33.
He rose from the grave 3 days after burial.
Hmmm...sounds familiar doesn't it?



Google it, look into it. I don't care if you believe me or not, I couldn't give a rat's ass frankly. I know what I know.



Believe what you want to and believe what you have been conditioned with since birth and don't question anything, just like they conditioned you to do throughout all your years up until now, be a good boy and just take in what they tell you to do and stay in your naive state, just the way they want you.

The Jesus/Horus connection has been thouroughly refuted, and not just by Christians historians, but Bart Erhman, quite possibly the biggest critic of Christianity, and one of the worlds renowned historians wont even touch the Horus connection, its simply factually innacurate, and the claims don't hold weight.

As has been noted, you would have to draw your claims about Horus from the Egyptian book of the dead, however, the claims that supposedly link Horus to Jesus do not exist in the book of the dead, in fact, Zeitgeist, a popular YouTube video, lost all credit for the historical innaccuracies it contains in this regard.

Supposedly Horus was born on December 25, and there were 12 wise men, things the Bible never says.. Why draw parallels when those parallels don't exist for either Jesus or Horus?

Since you are making the claims 8 in total, can you please cite the passages in the egyptian book of the dead you believe tie Horus to Christ?

My guess is you cant, because renowned atheist historians have already debunked that claim, it was a fable that popped up, nothing more, it lacks any historical precedent and to suggest otherwise would be to compromise ones own career, its that false.
 
The Jesus/Horus connection has been thouroughly refuted, and not just by Christians historians, but Bart Erhman, quite possibly the biggest critic of Christianity, and one of the worlds renowned historians wont even touch the Horus connection, its simply factually innacurate, and the claims don't hold weight.

As has been noted, you would have to draw your claims about Horus from the Egyptian book of the dead, however, the claims that supposedly link Horus to Jesus do not exist in the book of the dead, in fact, Zeitgeist, a popular YouTube video, lost all credit for the historical innaccuracies it contains in this regard.

Supposedly Horus was born on December 25, and there were 12 wise men, things the Bible never says.. Why draw parallels when those parallels don't exist for either Jesus or Horus?

Since you are making the claims 8 in total, can you please cite the passages in the egyptian book of the dead you believe tie Horus to Christ?

My guess is you cant, because renowned atheist historians have already debunked that claim, it was a fable that popped up, nothing more, it lacks any historical precedent and to suggest otherwise would be to compromise ones own career, its that false.


Well not the Egyptian book of the dead, no it is not in there. Helena Blavatsky touches the subject in The Secret Doctrine in Journal 3 out of the 5. CRITIAS by Plato mentions it in a pseudo-mythological style when he compares Enki from Babylon and Horus. Also the Pyramid Texts (Egyptian obviously) cites the 8 facts I have mentioned. I also read the discreditation it received in the Zeitgheist Source Book. Also within these URL-linked deciphered Egyptian texts the 8 facts are mentioned:

Vol. I: The Book of the Am-Tuat

Vol II: The Book of Gates
Vol III: The Egyptian Heaven and Hell
 
Well not the Egyptian book of the dead, no it is not in there. Helena Blavatsky touches the subject in The Secret Doctrine in Journal 3 out of the 5. CRITIAS by Plato mentions it in a pseudo-mythological style when he compares Enki from Babylon and Horus. Also the Pyramid Texts (Egyptian obviously) cites the 8 facts I have mentioned. I also read the discreditation it received in the Zeitgheist Source Book. Also within these URL-linked deciphered Egyptian texts the 8 facts are mentioned:

Vol. I: The Book of the Am-Tuat

Vol II: The Book of Gates
Vol III: The Egyptian Heaven and Hell


Let me know it these links work and also it you would like the downloadable-URL sites for the others mentioned.
 
I appreciate the links, but assuming you have worked through these points yourself, can you cite specifically within your resources where the information exists you are claiming corroborates your claims? For example, if I was to make a claim about Jesus, I would give you book, chapter, verse, ect.. If I was citing Josephus for example, I would cite exactly what I was referencing in in the Jewish Antiquities, or if I was going to cite the Ante-Nicene fathers, I would cite the volume and more specifically where in that volume I was referencing.

As stated before, it was prominent atheist historians who distanced themselves from the Horus/Jesus connections. Christians naturally would reject those claims, but when prominent world level critics of Christiantiy who would love nothing more than to be able to paint Christ as a retelling of the Horus myth distance themselves from the horus/christ connection, the problem is much bigger. These are men who have devoted their entire lives to discrediting Christ, yet none of them find any validity in the Horus/Christ connection, in fact, they think its foolish.

Please help me to to understand what information you are citing specifically that makes you think you have more answers than someone like Bart Ehrman, perhaps one of the greatest historians alive, who also does not believe Christ has anything to do with Horus.

Thank you for your time, I know it is valuable to you.
 
I think what evidence you're looking for was that he was somehow undead or undying in a way. Would recommend a book on this subject but can't remember the name of it. Something about going into long extended details about the fact Jesus died and then was somehow very much changed from the experience... anywho
 
I appreciate the links, but assuming you have worked through these points yourself, can you cite specifically within your resources where the information exists you are claiming corroborates your claims? For example, if I was to make a claim about Jesus, I would give you book, chapter, verse, ect.. If I was citing Josephus for example, I would cite exactly what I was referencing in in the Jewish Antiquities, or if I was going to cite the Ante-Nicene fathers, I would cite the volume and more specifically where in that volume I was referencing.

As stated before, it was prominent atheist historians who distanced themselves from the Horus/Jesus connections. Christians naturally would reject those claims, but when prominent world level critics of Christiantiy who would love nothing more than to be able to paint Christ as a retelling of the Horus myth distance themselves from the horus/christ connection, the problem is much bigger. These are men who have devoted their entire lives to discrediting Christ, yet none of them find any validity in the Horus/Christ connection, in fact, they think its foolish.

Please help me to to understand what information you are citing specifically that makes you think you have more answers than someone like Bart Ehrman, perhaps one of the greatest historians alive, who also does not believe Christ has anything to do with Horus.

Thank you for your time, I know it is valuable to you.


Time is at the end all that I may give of myself to other's and regarding highly esoteric topics such as this one, discussing it is only a pleasure.
My fellow soul, kindly understand that I have read through at least upwards of a million pages plus some in my 29 years thus far. You name it, I've read it, not just quick perusal, no no no, I mean from first blank page to last blank page, glossaries indexes etc.

I tough myself how to read during bath time when I was 3 by my father reading a page and me repeating on so on, and from then on I have had an unquenchable thirst for all the knowledge that I can possibly absorb and sift through the bullshit add-ons and seek the most logical grain of factual truth.
Every encyclopedia, dictionary, my dad's varsity study books and each and every magazine and newspaper, even old hoarded shit, if it had 2-dimensions and words on it I read it.
Through my, thank the blessed great architect, God-given blessing of a photographic memory, most of what I read, even just once, I could remember and recite until 18, the year I REALLY started my current polu-drug abuse, after 18 up till now nothing "sticks" as it always used to, pity.

Now I've read ALL the versions of the Christian Bible ie; Vatican's 1432-ish version where they OFFICIALLY wrote into Papal law that a priest may make use of pre-primary school choir boys for personal relief of physical bodily tension that comes with sexual abstinence and no vajayjay for life, as the fuckers called it, Jesus spin turntables loose on 2 screws on that cross if he say what the Vatican has been uo to for 400+ years oh my soul Old-Ensligh, Guttenburg circa 1553 (?), N.K.J, New International etc etc, I have read it in the same way I've read all mainstream religions' guides, Torah, Koran, Kaballah (kindly disregard spelling/grammar faults, English is my 3rd language) I've read all types of all the books of whatever countries after-life opinios Tibethan-, Egyption, Babalonian-, Mastocech-, Aztec-, etc books of the dead.

After I've devoured all that our town's library has to offer, google and high speed internet everywhere was starting to become norm and readily available so then the bitches went loose into the cabbage patch and were never seen again. I tried to post a picture and/or url of the pictures location but being technologically inept I fucked up so after 4 times gave up. This picture is very important when I come to explain exactly what you are in need of understanding regarding the Christ figure, one name of him, that has been present and written about in evergy generation as the Metraya, or Post-Christ incarnation that will signal for the cycle to end and take all ready souls upwards into higher realms of consciousness and then in time, to merge again into and become part of the source energy that is and was and always will be what we perceive as God's creation.

Don't laugh but kindly may you follow this WeTransfer link and see this image infront of you before we contunue further, seeing it visually does make it easier to fathom and explain the impartance of the generational appearance of the Christ being on THIS planet.

[url]https://wetransfer.com/downloads/46dcd31aec18136ea2b4707b985ba4e320170720205123/da9564de764629e6ea9b65b9e42404d520170720205123/1e146a[/URL]

Let me know when you've been successful and have the image where we may then continue to converse about this topic.


Namaste fellow soul.
 
I think what evidence you're looking for was that he was somehow undead or undying in a way. Would recommend a book on this subject but can't remember the name of it. Something about going into long extended details about the fact Jesus died and then was somehow very much changed from the experience... anywho


Can you possibly recall the book? Part of the title of sentence to google?
 
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