Benzos Need help with Etizolam habit, possible taper

[Anxiousanxious]

Hi, I've binged 100mg Etiz over 2-3 weeks with very little past benzo history. I have always drank heavily and I continue to drink between doses and use the Etiz for hangovers. But I'm dosing like 4mg+ daily and although not getting high I'm worried I'm gonna have some bad rebound effects that could be minimized with Diclazepam.

I refuse to go to a doctor for valium or anything, I truly believe my use isn't going to put me into risk for seizures or anything (unless you tell me otherwise), but I will order Diclaz and taper if you think I should. If you think my usage is peanuts and I'll just have a few days or a week of hell, and no risk of seizing, I could possibly ride it out, but I already have high blood pressure and extremely high anxiety problems associated with clinical depression. Which means I'll be in constant panic attack for a week and miss work.... Idk, I'm concerned and i'd appreciate some help.

if you think a diclazepam taper would help me, can you help me figure out how? I would think 1mg everyday and then drop to 0.5 a week later, 0.25, then off. and done forever. (Famous last words) but seriously fuck benzos


edit: I do have 4 x 100mg Gabapentin capsules. They're supposedly used as an anticonvulsant but idk if they do shit for anxiety. They're also known to raise blood pressure. but if i needa take one or two of those a day for the first few days I will. again, your advice will be taken with great appreciation

 

[Lobsterbutch]

It depends on you. Since you dont have a history its tough to say, since those first habits are usually the easiest to get through (but thats only in retrospect, I know very few people with only ONE habit). Since Gabaergics are more tricky than others, Anyone would advise a slow taper first. As slow as is comfortable. But honestly, the BEST is to see a doctor and get his/her input. you say you have severe depression and anxiety, I dont want to be rude, but If all of thats true, I can almost guarentee you're going to find yourself back in this spot again, especially if you botch your taper and end up going up in dosage. Its pretty easy to botch a taper, so many times have I gotten myself to the 30% mark and ended up going down too fast, going back to the old dose, then taking more to feel better, then spacing the doses out more........next thing you know you're fucked again. I only say this because with a doctors supervision it could be smoother and get you out of any jams you could get into health wise, like if you are super susceptible to seizures. And they could get you a diazepam taper, which would have you on a medically controlled dose (so you couldn't go up or down on your own) and diazepam has the longest half life of the classic benzos so it'll have the most comfortable taper (theoretically). No one here could call your habit "Peanuts" and say they're being responsible. Look up the Ashton Method......"Benzodiazepines, how they work and how to withdrawal", its free online. Figure out the diclazepam potency relative to etiz and taper according to the method Heather Ashton lays out. Best advice: go see a doctor.

 

[Anxiousanxious]

It depends on you. Since you dont have a history its tough to say, since those first habits are usually the easiest to get through (but thats only in retrospect, I know very few people with only ONE habit). Since Gabaergics are more tricky than others, Anyone would advise a slow taper first. As slow as is comfortable. But honestly, the BEST is to see a doctor and get his/her input. you say you have severe depression and anxiety, I dont want to be rude, but If all of thats true, I can almost guarentee you're going to find yourself back in this spot again, especially if you botch your taper and end up going up in dosage. Its pretty easy to botch a taper, so many times have I gotten myself to the 30% mark and ended up going down too fast, going back to the old dose, then taking more to feel better, then spacing the doses out more........next thing you know you're fucked again. I only say this because with a doctors supervision it could be smoother and get you out of any jams you could get into health wise, like if you are super susceptible to seizures. And they could get you a diazepam taper, which would have you on a medically controlled dose (so you couldn't go up or down on your own) and diazepam has the longest half life of the classic benzos so it'll have the most comfortable taper (theoretically). No one here could call your habit "Peanuts" and say they're being responsible. Look up the Ashton Method......"Benzodiazepines, how they work and how to withdrawal", its free online. Figure out the diclazepam potency relative to etiz and taper according to the method Heather Ashton lays out. Best advice: go see a doctor.

Thanks a lot. I've never had a seizure before. I'm not a maintenance drinker or a daily, but I drink very heavily most days of the week, so I know the withdrawal. It's scary. I've binged 1 week of daily xanax bars before and it was three days and 3 nights of no sleep, contrary to being so tired to even keep my eyes open. The rebound, I mean. Etiz is said to be more forgiving in short binges like this I've read.

The worst part about all of this, is that on Prozac, finally I found the SSRI that made life okay. I could be in social situations. Now that I've discovered etiz it's extremely difficult to even go for groceries or work without etiz, and prozac doesnt seem to be enough on its own. So what you said about tapering and relapse, yeah, its very possible.

I'll hope for a few more educated responses from different people but based on yours I'm going to get 50mg Diclazepam PG and follow the Ashton. Take care!!


edit again: I purchased 120mg PG solution of Diclaz. Equipotency with etiz, apparently. But I think I will stick to my original plan or 1mg every day or 36 hours and jump 0.25 every 3rd dose, and just get it over with. I'll either then dump the solution when I feel comfortable or (famous last words again) keep it for panic attacks. I know I'm capable of not abusing the shit but using it for hangovers is what's fucked me. My answer is either slow down the drinking or cut the benzos and suffer the hellish hangovers I deserve. I don't think there's an inbetween

 

[Redkitty7]

Hey just wanted to say I had a month long run with miss etizolam...she made me do the dumbest shit! I should add I have used benzos for years... never everyday. I need them to work so after we ran out of it I just used xanax to ween down during the first week. Smoked weed and didn't drink much booze. I recovered fine but paid for the dumb shit I did during that month for well over a year. I could get it anytime but won't. She's too strong for me....

I suggest trying to taper down for a week and tough out the rest...try adding some vitamins and supplements and exercise daily. It's hard but it's what we must do to feel better.

 

[Anxiousanxious]

Thanks for the response Redkitty. I'm glad you got out of that and didn't end up too fucked. There's some serious horror stories out there lol. I realized today I am becoming physically addicted because I wake up after 4-6 hours sweaty and panicking until I take a dose. it seemed too soon for that to happen. I'm gonna taper with diclaz for a week or two and then ride it out.

<snip>

 

[kleinerkiffer]

Given your alcohol abuse and the high doses of etizolam you might be at risk of a seizure, but it's impossible to tell as everyone reacts different.
Imo you should taper, but a long taper will increase the chance that you'll get physical dependent on the benzos, if you're not already, so a quick taper over a week should be the your best bet.

 

[Anxiousanxious]

Given your alcohol abuse and the high doses of etizolam you might be at risk of a seizure, but it's impossible to tell as everyone reacts different.
Imo you should taper, but a long taper will increase the chance that you'll get physical dependent on the benzos, if you're not already, so a quick taper over a week should be the your best bet.

Thanks friend. Can you perhaps help with a tapper plan? I trust your judgment but I'll take it with a grain of salt as you wish man... I think I got 120mg diclaz to 30ml pg... its pretty heavy... i hope they include a 1ml oral syringe

 

[Redkitty7]

I'm surprised you already have a tolerance to it after such a short time. But we are all different when it comes to our bodies processing drugs...let us know how you're doing

 

[kleinerkiffer]

I'm not quite sure about the potency of diclazepam, but it seems like it's about 8-10 times as potent as diazepam, while etizolam is around 10 times as potent. But another source states 1mg etizolam = 0.5 mg diclazepam = 5 mg diazepam.
So 5mg etizolam would be around 2.5 - 5 mg diclazepam
I guess you have to try out yourself. Start with like 2.5 mg diclazepam or around 0.625ml of your 4mg/ml solution and if you don't feel any withdrawal symptoms reduce by like 0.5 mg a day, at 0.5 reduce to 0.25 and 0.125 and jump
Have you tried stopping for a day? Maybe you won't experience any withdrawal, so you could just stop and only take some diclazepam if you feel withdrawal symptoms, like increased anxiety, shakiness etc. and have someone around that knows about the benzos and withdrawal symptoms, like seizures etc and can give you some diclazepam/can drive you to a hospital, just to be safe

And don't forget, I'm not a doctor, I'm just another junkie so always take my advice with a grain of salt and imo it's always better to consult a real doctor

 

[Anxiousanxious]

I'm thinking of trying to make it today without taking any, but I'm having depersonalization right now and composing this message is tough. I had my last dose of 0.5mg about 10 hours ago and I'm in a horrible hangover of about 20 lagers. So it's really hard to judge if it's just the beer or the benzo but i'm definitely anxious as fuck and a bit shaky. I literally feel like I'm about to fall out of reality every other second its like my perception of being and my senses dull in and out. It really reminds me of a horrible horrible alcohol hangover after tons of liquor. I guess if things get too bad I'll take 0.25 etiz and some hydroxyzine. I set a rule today that if I absolutely CAN NOT make it on 0, i'll divide 0.5 into two doses and try the jump tomorrow, when I'm not hungover.

Starting to think I got ripped off for my Diclaz so i maybe have to cold turkey this one when I run out of last 7 mg etiz. If not and it shows up I'll try a rapid taper plan like you suggest.

 

[kleinerkiffer]

Sounds like you should take some etizolam

How're you doing now?

 

[Redkitty7]

Yes how are you feeling now??

 

[Anxiousanxious]

It's been about 29 hours since I've dosed any, my last dose was 0.5mg while I was drunk (stupid I know). I just woke up from a 10 hour sleep, on and off, which is good but as soon as I woke up I was hit with extreme rebound anxiety and shakiness, strong headache. I'm about to leave for work but I'm afraid to even drive because I feel that depersonalization thing so strongly. Going to take with me 1mg tablet and if I must sneak in the bathroom and break it into 0.25 I'll take that much.

I got confirmation of the diclaz arriving tomorrow. I don't wanna depend on it because who knows if I'm allergic or some other scenario. I think I'm gonna still try to cold turkey this because I feel like if I take any i'm going to undo what i've already accomplished.

I have to tell you tho, This is probably my 3rd or 4th etiz/benzo binge in my life, but they were all back to back starting around October or earlier. So that might contribute to why this is so painful for me. One important factor I think is that I was a full month without any benzo/etiz before this current binge began. But who would have thought 3-4 weeks would be this bad on withdrawal. 15 minutes to write this post and now im gonna be late lol. thanks for asking about me, ill let you know abbout any significant changes good or bad and hopefully this can help someone in the same predicament as me. someday

 

[Speed King]

^^hey Anxiousanxious, why, or how did you manage to get so far over your head with the drugs? What goes up must come down, or opposite , in your case. Pay attention to your body, and withdrawal at a slower rate. The slower, the better. And yeah, a benzo user and drinker? Yeah, that seizure threshold has its work cut out for it. Take it slow and easy. Please use the search engine.

 

[kleinerkiffer]

With GABAergics and especially alcohol and benzos each withdrawal leads to more severe withdrawal symptoms than with the last withdrawal. It's called kindling effect.

 

[Anxiousanxious]

I did search many threads but I felt it was appropriate to make my own because of my specific questions. I'm a very long time reader here but I didn't mean to break any rules. So not a few minutes into work I had to take .25 and it did nothing. So I took another to 0.5 and it's managable now.

I couldn't do basic tasks and the drive here was scary. Talking to my boss was impossible. So yeah definitely withdrawal as I feel much better after dosing. Tomorrow my diclaz comes in and I'm going to research more and follow kleinerkliffers advice and rapidly get the hell off of this asap this week. Its my only forgiven week at work I came clean to my boss immediately.


edit: So I took that 0.5mg about 6 hours ago and still feel the same. I've noticed withdrawals peaked around >24 hours of stopping and the half life of Etiz is definitely longer than 3.5-6 hours due to some metabolite.... It's more like 12 hours I believe

 

[Lobsterbutch]

You're causing yourself a lot of extra pain. If you aren't physically dependent on the booze, I would minimize that asap, because its going to make the benzo w/d worse, the glutamate rebound will make it take longer for you to feel better and the gaba-ness of booze will make your gaba receptors take longer to up-regulate, meaning your taper will take longer and any w/d will be longer.

I think you should find out exactly what dose of eitzolam gets you comfortable, able to go to work and out of the house, and let you sleep reasonably well. You shouldn't get high, but not be miserable either, shoot for feeling normal. The Ashton method has a very slow taper plan but since your habit isnt years long you dont need that. But you shouldn't have to suffer.

Find that "normalizing" dose, pay attention to how that works through the day. Etizolam has a short half life, so your blood levels of it will peak and dip multiple times through the day, so interdose w/d is possible. Pay attention to haw long between doses you get sick and how long it takes to go from "uncomfortable" to "complete denationalization". Take only enough through the day to maintain "normal" and re-dose only when you feel you're about to depersonalize. Stay at that dose for a little while. try 3 days and then try to go down. Every time you drop, try to do 30%. so if you take 2mg/day, then drop ~half a mg and stay at the dose for 3 days. if after the 3 days you feel worse than you thought, stay at that dose until you start to feel better. dont go up!!! when you "normalize", then you can resume droping. the idea is consistent dose reduction, never go back up to old doses, it'll make things take much longer.

it'd be great if you could see a doctor for a diazepam taper. then you'd have way way fewer peaks and dips and you might not even get interdose w/d. plus benzo w/d sucks and having a doctor would really help a lot to keep you safe.

 

[Anxiousanxious]

Diclazepam is structurally similar to diazepam I believe and has a massive half life of like 100 hours. I've only 6mg etiz left so I'm gonna dump em as soon as the diclaz arrives.

I did stop drinking. Thanks for the information. I'm not dependent on booze in that I drink everyday but my hangovers are often plain withdrawal. If that makes sense...I guess it doesn't. But I never got the shakes and after a day or two the anxiety and stuff would subside. Once I found etizolam would remove hangovers completely is when it went downhill and basically was dual use the entire time.

Right now it's 12 hours since I took that 0.5mg. Before that I made it nearly 30 hours since 0.5mg last. Haven't had any booze since 48 or so hours. I'm actually feeling a tiny bit okay I took hydroxyzine and 750mg of gaba powder.

They say gaba doesn't cross the blood brain barrier but there are receptors in your organs- I guess in someway how immodium doesn't get you high but acts on opiate receptors. Probably some serious misinformation there but fuck if I know. It seems to be helping. I know It does literally nothing for benzo withdrawal but It does seem to work a bit on anxiety. It could also be that there's still some etiz metabolites keeping me functional.

 

[kleinerkiffer]

How're you doing today ?

 

[Anxiousanxious]

At approx 27-29 hours the withdrawal peaks. Hard. I had to take 0.25 this day to function. I'm finding it possible to maybe taper with just etizolam contrary to what makes sense. Diclaz arriving in the mail in a few hours I'll wait and see how I feel 25+ hours from now before dosing the smallest possible dose for comfort perhaps 0.5mg or less diclaz.

Thanks for the support I'll keep you informed of any eventful changes!


Ps...0.25 is really shaky but depersonalization is gone