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Opioids Kratom Megathread V.6

Hi Mycophile, my advice, based on personal experience is to use suboxone to wean off kratom. At least the DEA isn't gonna take that away. When I switched from methadone to suboxone it was clear that I could stop the kratom if I'd wanted to. Soon into the transition I was having to remind myself to take a dose every day. I chose to keep taking it, 1 tsp 4 times a day, with an occasional 2 or three tsp dose t really feel high, but the bupe really breaks the spell.

I don't need anything to wean off Kratom as I'm really not dependent and never have been.

All I need is 3 days, 4 MAX and I'm fine.

I just feel crappy for 3 days.

And honestly, I'm not buying that they are making it illegal yet.

I heard all they are really doing is messing with shipments and I've seen no proof they are closer to banning it than in the past.

I mean doesn't congress have to vote??

FUCK the FDA and DEA.

We get THOUSANDS of signatures everytime this happens.

I won't believe it till I really have some undeniable proof.

I think this is more scare tactics.
 
The FDA influences the DEA. The DEA makes drug law and they don't require the full support of Congress to put said laws into effect. Congress would have to put up quite the stink to overturn any final ruling of the DEA. They do in fact have to vote still. Everything I have read suggest it will take place within the first half of 2019 with the back end already secured. Meaning they already have the necessary votes in place to rule what way they want. At this point it's down to schedule 1 or 2. I have stocked up and have no plans to get rid of anything but I only use around 10g per day to help depression and back pain. A typical day being five 2g doses evenly spread throughout. Once scheduled it will be a crime to posses so that's up to the individual.

Looking at your use history you could be expecting something from kratom in which it simply cannot provide. Whether you seek more of an opiate aganist or just plain euphoria their are drugs better suited for such purposes. It may be possible to reset your expectations and simply enjoy it for what it is though. Just as nature intended.

I still don't believe it.

I've heard all that is really happening is they are messing with shipping.

We hear this time and again and I don't see how they can just do this without anyone having any say about it.

I mean it's fucking immoral as fuck.

I don't get how the DEA can just do this, and I won't believe it till I see it.

I already have some as well, not a lifetime supply by a long shot but enough for a while and I could get more but I'm not sure if I should but I guess I should.

What exactly do you mean that I am looking for something Kratom cannot provide??

It really does give me what I want it's just that it's too addictive and mostly really just too short acting.

What other drugs are better suited for that purpose??

IF you know of any then please let me know.

I enjoy it for what it is, I just keep letting my tolerance get too high, but if you know of something else that does what I'd want let me know.

I think this is all bullshit, but I might get more if necessary.
 
Multiple vendors are claiming they can't get shipments into the country today. My local shop claimed the FDA raided his suppliers warehouse for "in-proper labeling" early this week and seized $3,000,000 worth of Kratom. When I spoke to him today he said he's having a hard time sourcing another supplier and his current one has stopped taking phone calls. If you're dependant on kratom I suggest stocking up and starting a taper now or face cold turkey later. I think kratom is going to be scheduled before the end of the year.

Remember folks, anything that cuts into the profits of major pharmaceutical companies can't be allowed. Kratom was banned in its native land because it cut into profits from the opium trade. It'll be banned here because it cuts into the profits from the opioid trade. Can't have a plant around that cost almost nothing when a bunch of people stop showing up to pay $200-$400 a month for suboxone treatment.

I still don't understand how the DEA can just do this without congress voting.

My vendor says he CAN still send shipments but recommends stocking up.

I don't know if I believe this shit.

I mean does the DEA just have unlimited power??

We have gotten THOUSANDS of signatures.

How can they just ban it??

Not sure I believe it.
 
I don't know if I believe this shit.

I mean does the DEA just have unlimited power??

We have gotten THOUSANDS of signatures.

How can they just ban it??

Not sure I believe it.

First off, yes vendors will be taking advantage of this scare to raise prices but understand they're spooked themselves and probably looking to unload what they have on hand at maximum profit. The signatures mean nothing to the Government. If anything you're just showing them that Kratom has become widely known and it needs to be nipped in the bud so they can continue to make profits hand over fist on Suboxone, methadone, and traditional opioids. The DEA is allowed to schedule pretty much whatever they want and the FDA is allowed to conduct raids and charge people for not follow a strict set of rules. Anything of use will be classified and regulated in an attempt to profit from it. This is how the Government works. If they don't profit directly they profit on the other side (locking people up, kick backs from big pharma, kickbacks from tobacco/alcohol companies). Just look at the current attempt to ban flavored vape juice because it became so popular and has cut into the profits of the tobacco companies. Is it any wonder they'd do the same with Kratom?

The Government allowed opioids to flood into this country in the name of profits. When people started dying because they allowed so many citizens to become addicts they promoted suboxone as a cure which generates massive profits for the same people that profited from Oxycontin and other opioids. Kratom cuts into those profits because it allows people to maintain or quit without giving money away to these people. If you follow the money this all becomes very clear. If the DEA/FDA/Government didn't have this massive power to ban things willy nilly you could be growing your own opium on your property without fear of arrest. It's all the same thing. Haven't you ever wondered why possession or certain plants is highly illegal?

I will follow your vendor's advice here: Stock up, taper, try to clean out now while you still can. You don't want to wake up in a few months to discover that the supply has totally dried up and you're forced to go cold turkey or submit to suboxone/regular drug testing. Kratom was the last freely available opioid-like product that worked. If you're a non-believer just look at what happened with MXE. It's still legal in a bunch of places, highly popular, safer than ketamine and yet you can't buy it anywhere. Why would people with the means not be producing it unless they were threatened?

Unfortunately, I'm convinced that this sad situation we find ourselves in won't be changing any time soon. Signatures do not work, voting does not work, the only solution is overthrowing the current Governments. Until such time we're stuck with a Government that will ban anything in the name of profit. They don't care about you and me they only care about the size of their wallets.
 
First off, yes vendors will be taking advantage of this scare to raise prices but understand they're spooked themselves and probably looking to unload what they have on hand at maximum profit. The signatures mean nothing to the Government. If anything you're just showing them that Kratom has become widely known and it needs to be nipped in the bud so they can continue to make profits hand over fist on Suboxone, methadone, and traditional opioids. The DEA is allowed to schedule pretty much whatever they want and the FDA is allowed to conduct raids and charge people for not follow a strict set of rules. Anything of use will be classified and regulated in an attempt to profit from it. This is how the Government works. If they don't profit directly they profit on the other side (locking people up, kick backs from big pharma, kickbacks from tobacco/alcohol companies). Just look at the current attempt to ban flavored vape juice because it became so popular and has cut into the profits of the tobacco companies. Is it any wonder they'd do the same with Kratom?

The Government allowed opioids to flood into this country in the name of profits. When people started dying because they allowed so many citizens to become addicts they promoted suboxone as a cure which generates massive profits for the same people that profited from Oxycontin and other opioids. Kratom cuts into those profits because it allows people to maintain or quit without giving money away to these people. If you follow the money this all becomes very clear. If the DEA/FDA/Government didn't have this massive power to ban things willy nilly you could be growing your own opium on your property without fear of arrest. It's all the same thing. Haven't you ever wondered why possession or certain plants is highly illegal?

I will follow your vendor's advice here: Stock up, taper, try to clean out now while you still can. You don't want to wake up in a few months to discover that the supply has totally dried up and you're forced to go cold turkey or submit to suboxone/regular drug testing. Kratom was the last freely available opioid-like product that worked. If you're a non-believer just look at what happened with MXE. It's still legal in a bunch of places, highly popular, safer than ketamine and yet you can't buy it anywhere. Why would people with the means not be producing it unless they were threatened?

Unfortunately, I'm convinced that this sad situation we find ourselves in won't be changing any time soon. Signatures do not work, voting does not work, the only solution is overthrowing the current Governments. Until such time we're stuck with a Government that will ban anything in the name of profit. They don't care about you and me they only care about the size of their wallets.

Everyone thinks because I am obsessed with Kratom and psychologically addicted that I use daily and I'm totally dependent, but I never use more than a few days a week and WD never lasts me more than 3-4 days cold turkey max.

The fact that I used 5 out of the past 6 days is REALLY bad for me...so I'll be in WD for 4 days probably without using at all cold turkey, not counting one dose Monday for work.

I would never get myself into a situation where I need a taper at all, let alone suboxone which I have never used.


Not everyone thinks this is such a dire situation as you do.

I still don't see how it is possible for the DEA to ban things without ANY say from congress.

Don't ALL laws have to pass through Congress??

We stopped them when they tried in 2016 and maybe we can stop them again.

I know many things have been made illegal but usually there was no one to fight for them and there was no opposition.

However, I am so obsessed with Kratom I would probably be better off quitting period and while I haven't decided yet if it will be permanent, I only have a little more right now so when I'm out of that I will stop for at least a few months, and if I decided I don't want to quit permanently lets just say I am not completely incapable of getting a limited supply...

But really, I'd be smarter to do a "you can't fire me cause I quit" move.

Kratom has taken up too much of my energy and I'm too obsessed with it, so all I know is very soon I will stop for AT LEAST a few months, with a possibility of stopping permanently, but i REALLY hope it doesn't become illegal, and while they are trying and the FDA is messing with imports, I don't know necessarily why this scare of scheduling is worse than the past ones which have all failed.

Here's a post from someone who used to work for the AKA from another forum in response to my thinking this is "the end of the line for Kratom". He does NOT agree:


"No, this is NOT the end of the line for kratom, unless we all were to give up and believe that it is. There are millions of us who owe our quality of life -- or even our life, itself -- to this plant, and most are planning to FIGHT, not give up, not even worry.

Our government has been badly mismanaged for many years and this is just one more example of one powerful industry using bureaucrats like Gottlieb to harass other newcomers that have a better product. That shouldn't be allowed to happen -- and we are the ones to put a stop to it.

The AKA has legitimate ongoing expenses and they have just increased, due to the FDA's intensified disinformation campaign to try to get states and even individual cities to ban kratom. They are trying to run our very effective AKA out of money -- even while they may be cutting our supply (which allows our vendors to donate, if they can still sell product).

To wait until "this is IT" -- some mythical ultimate battle for legality --to donate is missing the point. The need for funding to fight this important battle for our future is real.

I was a founding Board member of the AKA and still support their efforts as our best way to win our freedom to have and consume this plant. If finances are an obstacle, I'd suggest -- if you can't donate to the AKA, at least buy from Vendors who DO donate.

Don't even think in terms of losing. Get mad and determine to do all you can to KEEP what should rightfully be yours: Your freedom to decide what you consume to support your health & wellbeing."
 
Everyone thinks because I am obsessed with Kratom and psychologically addicted that I use daily and I'm totally dependent, but I never use more than a few days a week and WD never lasts me more than 3-4 days cold turkey max.

The fact that I used 5 out of the past 6 days is REALLY bad for me...so I'll be in WD for 4 days probably without using at all cold turkey, not counting one dose Monday for work.

I would never get myself into a situation where I need a taper at all, let alone suboxone which I have never used.


Not everyone thinks this is such a dire situation as you do.

I still don't see how it is possible for the DEA to ban things without ANY say from congress.

Don't ALL laws have to pass through Congress??

We stopped them when they tried in 2016 and maybe we can stop them again.

I know many things have been made illegal but usually there was no one to fight for them and there was no opposition.

However, I am so obsessed with Kratom I would probably be better off quitting period and while I haven't decided yet if it will be permanent, I only have a little more right now so when I'm out of that I will stop for at least a few months, and if I decided I don't want to quit permanently lets just say I am not completely incapable of getting a limited supply...

But really, I'd be smarter to do a "you can't fire me cause I quit" move.

Kratom has taken up too much of my energy and I'm too obsessed with it, so all I know is very soon I will stop for AT LEAST a few months, with a possibility of stopping permanently, but i REALLY hope it doesn't become illegal, and while they are trying and the FDA is messing with imports, I don't know necessarily why this scare of scheduling is worse than the past ones which have all failed.

Here's a post from someone who used to work for the AKA from another forum in response to my thinking this is "the end of the line for Kratom". He does NOT agree:


"No, this is NOT the end of the line for kratom, unless we all were to give up and believe that it is. There are millions of us who owe our quality of life -- or even our life, itself -- to this plant, and most are planning to FIGHT, not give up, not even worry.

Our government has been badly mismanaged for many years and this is just one more example of one powerful industry using bureaucrats like Gottlieb to harass other newcomers that have a better product. That shouldn't be allowed to happen -- and we are the ones to put a stop to it.

The AKA has legitimate ongoing expenses and they have just increased, due to the FDA's intensified disinformation campaign to try to get states and even individual cities to ban kratom. They are trying to run our very effective AKA out of money -- even while they may be cutting our supply (which allows our vendors to donate, if they can still sell product).

To wait until "this is IT" -- some mythical ultimate battle for legality --to donate is missing the point. The need for funding to fight this important battle for our future is real.

I was a founding Board member of the AKA and still support their efforts as our best way to win our freedom to have and consume this plant. If finances are an obstacle, I'd suggest -- if you can't donate to the AKA, at least buy from Vendors who DO donate.

Don't even think in terms of losing. Get mad and determine to do all you can to KEEP what should rightfully be yours: Your freedom to decide what you consume to support your health & wellbeing."

You helped found the AKA?
I donate to them every month and the DPA. You have made an amazing organization and I thank you.
 
You helped found the AKA?
I donate to them every month and the DPA. You have made an amazing organization and I thank you.

No no I didn't help found the AKA hahaha.

It was this guy who I quoted from another forum.

I donate to change.org and have given them money to.

I'd thank them as well, but no, I'm not involved.
 
Not everyone thinks this is such a dire situation as you do.

I still don't see how it is possible for the DEA to ban things without ANY say from congress.

It's called an Emergency Schedule and the DEA does it all of the time without the approval of Congress. Typically, drugs are Emergency Scheduled and then you have to go through the typical way to get them rescheduled at a different category so they can be used in medical studies. Anyone that doesn't know how this works hasn't been paying attention to the various bans on RCs over the years.

EMERGENCY OR TEMPORARY SCHEDULING

In 1984, the FCSA was amended by the Comprehensive Crime Control Act of 1984. This act included a provision that allows the administrator of the DEA to place a substance, on a temporary basis, into Schedule I when necessary to avoid an imminent hazard to the public safety.

This emergency scheduling authority permits the scheduling of a substance that is not currently controlled, is being abused, and is a risk to the public health while the formal rulemaking procedures described in the FCSA are being conducted. This emergency scheduling applies only to substances with no accepted medical use. A temporary scheduling order may be issued for 1 year with a possible extension of up to 6 months if formal scheduling procedures have been initiated. The proposal and order are published in the Federal Register as are the proposals and orders for formal scheduling.

During this time period, the DEA is required, by law, to complete the traditional scheduling process in order to permanently keep the drug or substance in Schedule I of the FCSA. The traditional scheduling process involves the collection, by the DEA, of all information pertaining to the chemistry, pharmacology, toxicology, abuse, and trafficking of the drug or substance. This data will ultimately be used by the DEA and HHS to decide the permanent scheduling of the drug or substance.

Secondly, I can give you examples of several users of opioids that "weren't dependent" and "weren't using everyday" that ended up as daily users and/or suffered PAWS upon quitting. Just because you can suffer through 4 days of acute withdrawal before using again doesn't mean you haven't become addicted to this substance. Kratom acts just like other opioids in the body and brings some unique withdrawal effects itself. Stocking up and tapering to avoid the eventual withdrawal/PAWS is just good advice. When it's gone the issues that caused you to start taking it will continue to be there and you will seek out substances to relieve them. Kratom isn't some harmless plant like a lot of people on the internet would have you believe. Having taken various opioids and Kratom I know myself that they're comparable and both will cause withdrawal symptoms. This is why I think we're going to see an outright ban soon because it works so well. The FDA wouldn't be harassing vendors and raiding warehouses if they didn't plan on doing something about it soon.

Also your posts are hard to read. This isn't reddit you don't have to double space after every sentence.
 
Not sure how much was buccal roa discussed before, but i think its more effective. If i dont swallow my kratom right away and let it sit in my mouth with some water for like 15 minutes, it seems to work better. The effects still take like 40 minutes to kick in but seem to last longer and feel overall better. Also more appetite suppression. Can anyone relate? Just my 1 cent.

I knew a guy who swore he could get effects from opening a kratom capsule and use it kind of like dip. He would usually only use 1 or 2 capsules ( it takes me at least 10 orally to feel anything). I always thought it was some kind of placebo effect. Surely the BA isn't THAT much higher right?
The guy I knew also had an IV heroin habit at the time, so I know he had a least a little tolerance. I wouldn't feel a single capsule of plain leaf even if I was completely intolerant to opioids.
I always thought he was just faking it for some reason or other. How much do you use buccally?
 
It's called an Emergency Schedule and the DEA does it all of the time without the approval of Congress. Typically, drugs are Emergency Scheduled and then you have to go through the typical way to get them rescheduled at a different category so they can be used in medical studies. Anyone that doesn't know how this works hasn't been paying attention to the various bans on RCs over the years.



Secondly, I can give you examples of several users of opioids that "weren't dependent" and "weren't using everyday" that ended up as daily users and/or suffered PAWS upon quitting. Just because you can suffer through 4 days of acute withdrawal before using again doesn't mean you haven't become addicted to this substance. Kratom acts just like other opioids in the body and brings some unique withdrawal effects itself. Stocking up and tapering to avoid the eventual withdrawal/PAWS is just good advice. When it's gone the issues that caused you to start taking it will continue to be there and you will seek out substances to relieve them. Kratom isn't some harmless plant like a lot of people on the internet would have you believe. Having taken various opioids and Kratom I know myself that they're comparable and both will cause withdrawal symptoms. This is why I think we're going to see an outright ban soon because it works so well. The FDA wouldn't be harassing vendors and raiding warehouses if they didn't plan on doing something about it soon.

Also your posts are hard to read. This isn't reddit you don't have to double space after every sentence.


I have to disagree that there's any point in tapering when 4 days of cold turkey breaks the physical WD. I am ADDICTED mentally, but physically I don't know much about what continues to happen in the brain once acute WD is gone. Sure, there could be PAWS but I'd thought that was mostly mental? Even if it isn't, I don't see how anyone would suggest continuing to take Kratom beyond the point when physical dependence is gone if it is gone so quickly. That seems backwards. I'd think most would suggest if you can get over the physical WD that quickly then do it and then deal with PAWS by some other means which is what I'd do but I'm not sure how.

I certainly do not think Kratom is harmless by any means or I wouldn't be considering quitting right now. You are kind of freaking me out though making me think I can expect more will happen in the past than when I quit. I mean I stopped for 10 months in the past and eventually started again so I don't see how doing it again this time would be worse. And yeah, it worsens my depression, but I wouldn't know what else to do even if I tossed out all my Kratom and the WD was gone what other treatments would you suggest for any lingering PAWS? Cause I'm not going to cut down slowly when the WD can be over in 3 days. Seems backwards. I don't have much left so my plan is to run out and just straight up stop. I've done it before for over 10 months, and if I have lingering issues that are mostly psychological I don't know what else to do about it so I'm open to suggestions.

I mean in terms of seeking out other substances to relieve the issues, yes, that is something I'm likely to do cause I self medicate for anxiety and depression which is a bad idea. I already take Klonopin and Lexapro for help and they offer some. But don't you see it as backwards telling someone who has gone from higher doses than I currently take to stopping for over 10 months that if he wants to quit again (which I actually do...) that he should taper and prolong a physical dependence that is over in 4 days because AFTER that there could be PAWS? That makes no sense...

Wouldn't it be smarter that if i truly decide I want to quit, whether permanently or for a few months (and I DEFINITELY am going to stop for AT LEAST a few months) to just break the physical dependence in the 4 days or so it takes, stop completely, then deal with any other issues that arise later, rather than deciding to do some kind of slow taper?

I have ways of getting more if I want and problems continue beyond that point, but I would not plan on needing to resort to the possibility of needing future doses once a physical dependency is over.

I know this isn't Reddit but I make spaces because I find it hard to read block paragraphs. I'll do something in between and make just a few spaces. And yeah, I've heard of emergency scheduling, but I just don't see how they get away with it in a democracy without a vote. It's totally tyrannical.
 
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In the UK in 2016 they passed the psychoactive substances act which instantly outlawed ALL psychoactive substances bar the ones that were exempted (this was so they wouldn't arrise at the absurd position where tea, coffee, alcohol etc. would be caught up in thr act). Kratom was outlawed overnight along with all of the research chemicals. There was no public vote or anything, it just happened. The government's reasoning for this was that we had quite a bad problem with some of the RCs such as Spice and the other synthetic cannabinoids (which was true). All the RC vendots closed there doors overnight and the days if getting seriously heavy "research chemicals" via next day delivery courtesy of The Royal Mail ended. I dont know if the public will have more of a say in things in the US but over here there was no public support to keep things like kratom since most people had never even heard of it.
 
In the UK in 2016 they passed the psychoactive substances act which instantly outlawed ALL psychoactive substances bar the ones that were exempted (this was so they wouldn't arrise at the absurd position where tea, coffee, alcohol etc. would be caught up in thr act). Kratom was outlawed overnight along with all of the research chemicals. There was no public vote or anything, it just happened. The government's reasoning for this was that we had quite a bad problem with some of the RCs such as Spice and the other synthetic cannabinoids (which was true). All the RC vendots closed there doors overnight and the days if getting seriously heavy "research chemicals" via next day delivery courtesy of The Royal Mail ended. I dont know if the public will have more of a say in things in the US but over here there was no public support to keep things like kratom since most people had never even heard of it.

Laws in the U.S. are quite different than the U.K. No offense man, but that is just really fucked up and I think the English approach to drugs make us look like SAINTS by comparison, which is hard to do since we suck lol.

But I know our 2 governments are not the same.

That doesn't necessarily mean they can't just ban it, and maybe they can. I don't know.
 
Laws in the U.S. are quite different than the U.K. No offense man, but that is just really fucked up and I think the English approach to drugs make us look like SAINTS by comparison, which is hard to do since we suck lol.

But I know our 2 governments are not the same.

That doesn't necessarily mean they can't just ban it, and maybe they can. I don't know.

The British government are not exactly well known for giving a fuck about the inhabitants of the country's rights about anything...

So no offence taken.... your actually spot on
 
I think that the kratom strain game is mostly marketing bullshit and placebo effect.

For me, all kratom is essentially the same effects wise and I'm speaking from several years worth of kratom purchases across many different vendors. The quality varies but that's about it.

I notice a bigger difference in effects from small doses (just stimulating) vs large doses (more opioid like) than I do from the same dose of different 'strains'.

Kratom is kratom is kratom. Furthermore I noticed something recently:

I purchased 4 different strains from the same vendor in 4 different orders spread across about 3 weeks time.

All 4 strains look, smell and taste exactly the same. They all provide exactly the same effects at the same doses. I am inclined to believe this vendor just buys one large bulk order of kratom then divides and packages it as different strains for sale. I wonder how prevelant this practice is... and not just at the vendor level but also further up, distribution and source levels.

I've noticed that different batches tend to look, smell, taste different. Usually there are differences in color, mill size, odor etc. but these 4 'strains' are identical in every way.

Food for thought I guess. Happy Thanksgiving to those who celebrate it.


ETA: It May be that I am just thick and don't notice the subtle differences in strains that other people are able to accurately differentiate. So I will concede that there may be true differences in effects of different types of kratom. But I'm convinced that far too much confusion and lies exist within the market to place much faith in a vendors claims of type/origin. I believe often times a large bulk supply of kratom get divided up into different 'strains' for resale.
 
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I think that the kratom strain game is mostly marketing bullshit and placebo effect.

For me, all kratom is essentially the same effects wise and I'm speaking from several years worth of kratom purchases across many different vendors. The quality varies but that's about it.

I notice a bigger difference in effects from small doses (just stimulating) vs large doses (more opioid like) than I do from the same dose of different 'strains'.

Kratom is kratom is kratom. Furthermore I noticed something recently:

I purchased 4 different strains from the same vendor in 4 different orders spread across about 3 weeks time.

All 4 strains look, smell and taste exactly the same. They all provide exactly the same effects at the same doses. I am inclined to believe this vendor just buys one large bulk order of kratom then divides and packages it as different strains for sale. I wonder how prevelant this practice is... and not just at the vendor level but also further up, distribution and source levels.

I've noticed that different batches tend to look, smell, taste different. Usually there are differences in color, mill size, odor etc. but these 4 'strains' are identical in every way.

Food for thought I guess. Happy Thanksgiving to those who celebrate it.


ETA: It May be that I am just thick and don't notice the subtle differences in strains that other people are able to accurately differentiate. So I will concede that there may be true differences in effects of different types of kratom. But I'm convinced that far too much confusion and lies exist within the market to place much faith in a vendors claims of type/origin. I believe often times a large bulk supply of kratom get divided up into different 'strains' for resale.

I believe you are almost 100% right MDPV. My vendor offers multiple strains and the only thing I really notice is a difference in how fine the powdered leaf is hahaha.
BUT, I have gotten legitimate Maeng Da and Bali strains and have noticed subtle differences. The Bali and Malaysian strains seem to have higher potencies as opposed to Maeng Da, which is probably why the MD is promoted as stimulating: less active compounds per gram than high potency Bali and such.

But if you want a specific effect, either stimulating or sedating, then all you have to do is adjust your dose properly. There is no special ingredients that make one strain different from another, it's all about the active compound per gram ratios.
 
It makes sense to me that kratom grown in different regions should have different alkaloid profiles due to different genetics and environmental differences. I just personally can't tell any difference between strains but that might be just me, who knows.

But if you want a specific effect, either stimulating or sedating, then all you have to do is adjust your dose properly. There is no special ingredients that make one strain different from another, it's all about the active compound per gram ratios.

That's pretty much what I've found. All kratom feels the same it's just that quality varies. I just adjust the dose of a new batch until I get desired effects.

I guess my problem is with the market not with the supposed alkaloid profiles of different types of kratom. I suspect there is quite a bit dishonesty going on somewhere along the supply line between when it's picked off the tree and when you receive it at home.

I see some vendors claiming to have 30+ kinds of kratom (different vein colors, different origins, different drying techniques, etc) and I just really find it all hard to believe, especially in today's climate where it's getting increasingly hard to get the stuff shipped in from overseas.
 
Can someone please provide me a good strategy to withdraw? I am intending to taper but have no idea what a good time frame is or how gradually I should do this. Thanks!

-10 grams a day habit probably more or less depending on .
 
Looks like all known brick and mortar stores selling kratom in Ohio were raided/seized within the last week. The state is currently in a comment period and kratom is not illegal here yet. It was done on behalf of the FDA and the Ohio department of agriculture. They are being really strict on packaging and even though it all states NFHC that isn't enough. This could set a precedence for other states and may skirt the need to ban the plant on the state or federal level. As stated above it is still legal. If they can do it here in Ohio they can do it in any state based on the same exact grounds. I don't know of any online vendors in Ohio but it appears to be limited to store fronts with foot traffick only.
 
Looks like all known brick and mortar stores selling kratom in Ohio were raided/seized within the last week. The state is currently in a comment period and kratom is not illegal here yet. It was done on behalf of the FDA and the Ohio department of agriculture. They are being really strict on packaging and even though it all states NFHC that isn't enough. This could set a precedence for other states and may skirt the need to ban the plant on the state or federal level. As stated above it is still legal. If they can do it here in Ohio they can do it in any state based on the same exact grounds. I don't know of any online vendors in Ohio but it appears to be limited to store fronts with foot traffick only.

It's been illegal in other states for years as well and is still legal in most.

By the same logic, if they haven't yet pulled it off in the majority of states then they might not pull it off in the majority of states and banning it in one state means just that, banning it in ONE state only.

It works both ways.

That being said, while I hope it stays legal I think we may lose the fight eventually.

If so, I would quickly get over being forced to quit Kratom forever, but I'd be super pissed on a moral level and super pissed for those who need it for pain relief or other very serious disorders.

I bet it will stay legal in Canada though, and I'm not all that far really from Canada.

There's so many things about Canada that I think are superior to the U.S.

I could imagine living there some day though I will probably stay in the U.S. but you never know.

They are so much better than we are when it comes to drug laws.
 
So I have just ordered my LAST kilo of kratom. Prices are very high online due to FDA seizures and such, and I am afraid to say that by the end of 2019 I believe it will be scheduled. So I am doing a taper with my last kg. I currently take 1-2 tablespoons 3x a day (I max out at about 8 tablespoons a day, although this is rare).
Any good tapering suggestions? I am asking a question that I already know the answer to, but I guess i would like to hear how the experience tapering off of kratom was for the people that have done it.
I'm also benzo tolerant (3mg per day) and take ~45mg Adderall daily.
 
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