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Hi, I've resigned myself to an unlivable sober life

kuboaa

kuboaa

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Joined
Nov 9, 2016
Messages
8
For some reason or another, I've always had intense anhedonia. I guess it's more than that: I don't merely see life as suboptimal, I see it as an outright mistake. Don't get me wrong -- I'm aware of how many people enjoy meaningful lives and don't think they're deluded or lying, I believe them. I just think that it's a Really Bad Idea. To draw a parallel, in Christianity the one unforgivable sin is to deny the Holy Spirit -- in life, the one unforgivable "sin" (I don't use this meaningless word outside of meaningless religious contexts) is that:

a) We're born
b) We feel pain
d) We learn from our pain, and grow
e) We die

The growth we acquire from our pain, yes, can teach ourselves and others many valuable lessons (e.g. how to die at peace). But let's for a moment consider some universal context, which doesn't come easy -- if at all -- to human minds. We're a mote on a speck of dust in the middle of nowhere (everywhere), and that's just spatially. Hell, the universe may be infinite, and that's not discounting the many-worlds / multiverse hypotheses. Our lives are, however prolonged, infinitesimal considering the universal timescales involved. Forget millennia, eons, or even remotely conceivable time-spans. Let's get down to brass tacks: the age of Iron Stars, some 10^1500 years from now. Our, what, 80 years of existence is supposed to do what? We create our own meaning. Some of us lack the constitution to render meaning at all. All of those meanings will be forgotten 10^1500 years from now. We're winding down via entropy: inexorable, immutable, intransigent.

"Life", to me, is the state of chemistry in my brain. My experience of life occurs in my mind, and we're all victims of our own biochemistry. Neuroplasticity offers only a cart before the horse. Yes, I can change my mind -- but only within the constraints of the mind from which it can change. Victim mentality? Perhaps. Deterministic universe? You bet. Don't bring up Schrodinger. Let's pretend we're not subatomic particles. We live in a deterministic universe. Free will? No. Unfalsifiable? Sure, but only until our brain scans improve.

Long story short: I am sad, chemically dependent, non-functioning, and about to call it quits. I don't like fighting the fight, it perpetuates the very thing I'm seeking to ameliorate. Yet passivity isn't an option either: eat or be eaten.

I hate this world, and I love everything in it.
--
julian.
 
That's a mighty first post!

All i can really say to that is welcome - you have some interesting ideas there.
Very dualistic, and stark - but nevertheless fascinating.

Nice to have you aboard.
 
We have consciousness! Why? Well that's the mystery go have fun and see how far you can twist yours and maybe you might see a reason for this fluke of excistentse that we ended up here on earth. My belief if is it wasn't by accident that's for fucking sure.. look how old those stars are out there imagine the brains and body's that have evolved over that amount of time
 
I'm not into mysticism, citing the "glass pipe fallacy". Yes, we can cheat our way into believing that things are /just so/ for /benevolent/ reasons, but that's not the way biology works, it's not the way that we're naturally wired. My researches into ontology and epistemology lead me to the conclusion that we're at the mercy of higher forces, and they're not benevolent. We fight for life, fight just to find a reason to fight -- it's the inverse of Kantian struggles that lead us to what we are and inevitably become.

I cannot look at people. Either I look into their eyes, or not at all. I fear they know the depths of my despair, but fear most that my depths are also theirs, so every interpersonal interaction becomes a game: a desperate attempt at shrugging off the horrific state of affairs we, as sentient beings, have made it a job to ignore. I love people, even if they hurt me. I hate people, even if they're nice. There's simply no point of comparison between the justified and the theoretical when it comes to relationships -- one keeps an open mind, until said mind is aflame and writhing in the throes of its own undermining.

It comes down to trust. If one cannot trust oneself, there is no meaning to meeting another. The Great Deception: forever changing, forever wanting to drop anchor.
 
kuboaa would you explain what you mean further when you said "It comes down to trust. If one cannot trust oneself, there is no meaning to meeting another. The Great Deception: forever changing, forever wanting to drop anchor"

You seem like a person that I would like to get to know. Il PM you.
 
Hi kuboaa your posts are really interesting but what immediately caught my attention was "I am sad, chemically dependent". Are you talking about the current state of neurotransmitters in your brain, eg. serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine, or something you've taken to alleviate your problems?

We're all chemically dependent, if we accept that depression and mood are controlled by these and other neurotransmitters; at the moment though the jury seems to be out.

If you DO believe that it is mechanistic then surely it's a matter of rebalancing the neurotransmitters? If you don't, then you're not chemically dependent, and there must be another course of action open to you.

I apologise if I've misunderstood your posts.
 
sickstring said:
Hi kuboaa your posts are really interesting but what immediately caught my attention was "I am sad, chemically dependent". Are you talking about the current state of neurotransmitters in your brain, eg. serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine, or something you've taken to alleviate your problems?

We're all chemically dependent, if we accept that depression and mood are controlled by these and other neurotransmitters; at the moment though the jury seems to be out.

If you DO believe that it is mechanistic then surely it's a matter of rebalancing the neurotransmitters? If you don't, then you're not chemically dependent, and there must be another course of action open to you.

I apologise if I've misunderstood your posts.
Click to expand...

Hi, thanks to everyone for responding to my various whingeings. It means a lot to me. :)

Let's first clear the air about the jury being out on the cause of depression. There's precisely one standard jury: that of repeatable, evidenced, peer-reviewed experiments. I'm unaware (of almost anything) and clueless regarding anything competing with the model of monoaminic acids and brain function / brain-states. If you can prove that we're not merely brain-states comprising trillions of atomic interactions every hour, please do so. If you have any peer-reviewed evidence of any other chemistry taking place (or anything at all taking place) in the brain, please let me know! I hate being ignorant, and I am.

Re: rebalancing the neurotransmitters, we're talking about doing so within the confines of two structures: the biochemical one, and the legal/monetary one. I'm unaware of another theory competing with the DSM-V hierarchical model with regards to the cause of depression; one which -- and it's the only standard candle we have access to -- by its own repeatable experiments prove its treatments are "borderline effective". I have found a cure for my own depression, comprising 30 mg morphine per day. This isn't something I can acquire any more. I was full-time employed, wholly independent, and conveniently pain-free throughout my addiction, but governmental policies have shifted and I'm not able to use my cure any more.

Tri- and tetracyclics (with the exception of the weird mirtazapine, to which I owe my will to sleep and eat) haven't helped at all, SN/SSRIs have been a cruel joke (waking blood pressure: 90 over 60! Jumping jellybeans!), and mood "stabilisers" have certainly lived up to their name. It would be excellent if the medicinal community came up with treatment-resistant-depression alternatives to ECT, TMS, lithium, etc. Like opiates...

There's no point to this post, sorry. I'm just disgruntled that my government has taken away my will to live, but that's all. I have nothing to complain about elsewise.
--
julian.
 
@ methyldreams: I cannot distill it any further than what I said, sorry. If one cannot trust oneself, one is unsure of what one is (and indeed what one is not). Without this knowledge, one of the requisites to a meaningful humanistic embrace (that two or more people all come together) is not met: one has nothing to come together /towards/. Without self-trust, one cannot open up, because what one shares cannot be verified to be true (even if it is). A lack of self-trust dissimilates one's own equational value, rendering the whole exercise futile. There's no "there" there. I don't know what I'm talking about.
 
kuboaa I agree that was a brilliant introduction for a first post
 
Truly - freaking nippy avatar though. Had to read the post with my hand over the left side of the laptop.

Yours is nice, very calming.
 
I wake up every morning at five. I sweat until it's seven, that's when the local shop opens. They sell Listerine -- it's 27% ethanol. I drink it and throw it up until I can't throw up any more. Soon it's going to be stronger: hand sanitiser at the local hospital. Depends on the brand, but 66% to 70%. I can't live like this any more. I have all the responsibility that there is. I sniff petrol, I sniff butane, I have enough brain cells to spare. But they're going to run out. It hurts, you know, drinking Listerine. It actually hurts, like vomiting-blood-hurts. So what.

Fuck me. I am finished, and I haven't even started.
 
Fuck bro, You must be in a dark place to be doing this to yourself. Do you have any family? any old mates who can come visit you? It makes me sad bro to know that there are people out there like yourself but I think your trying to get better otherwise you wouldnt have posted here on BL.
You would be a good companion to smoke a heap of ice with and talk about your theories against mine :)
 
?!?!?

Wow, what the hell. . . .

Sincere apologies everyone I've been stridently rude and argumentative to -- I don't remember writing any of these posts, was taken aback to regain consciousness and see a thread here on BL from me.

I've never sniffed petrol or butane, seriously no idea why I wrote that, everything else is true. I don't remember much from the last couple of weeks. I got out of hospital a couple of days ago (was found un-responsive/-conscious lying outside a doctor's office). I've managed to cut down today, mostly out of physical necessity: been throwing up most of what I've tried drinking. This morning was the worst, I had to go out and could barely walk without falling over (not from intoxication, but withdrawals); scared another seizure's on the way. So I haven't stopped altogether, which is fine, probably a physical recommendation. I /will/ remember this post, doubt my BAL is >0.150 or so.

Thanks for the offer of hanging out, methyldreams -- I'll skip the ice though, heh. In any case, my "theories" are just a combination of a ignorance (didn't finish year 10), intoxication, cynicism, and obnoxiousness. I don't have friends. My family are supportive but they're tired of trying, and I don't begrudge them that. Yes, I do want to get better but that involves not drinking what and how much I do. For that to happen, I need hope.

Again, I'm sorry for any offence caused and for being an arsehole. Thanks for taking the time to engage with me, I cede your points. Take care, all.
 
kuboaa, Yeah id skip the ice to know as im having hopefully the final break from this substance, PM if your serios about hanging out though, Iv also no friends so don't be ashamed of that.
 
kuboaa said:
For some reason or another, I've always had intense anhedonia. I guess it's more than that: I don't merely see life as suboptimal, I see it as an outright mistake. Don't get me wrong -- I'm aware of how many people enjoy meaningful lives and don't think they're deluded or lying, I believe them. I just think that it's a Really Bad Idea. To draw a parallel, in Christianity the one unforgivable sin is to deny the Holy Spirit -- in life, the one unforgivable "sin" (I don't use this meaningless word outside of meaningless religious contexts) is that:

a) We're born
b) We feel pain
d) We learn from our pain, and grow
e) We die

The growth we acquire from our pain, yes, can teach ourselves and others many valuable lessons (e.g. how to die at peace). But let's for a moment consider some universal context, which doesn't come easy -- if at all -- to human minds. We're a mote on a speck of dust in the middle of nowhere (everywhere), and that's just spatially. Hell, the universe may be infinite, and that's not discounting the many-worlds / multiverse hypotheses. Our lives are, however prolonged, infinitesimal considering the universal timescales involved. Forget millennia, eons, or even remotely conceivable time-spans. Let's get down to brass tacks: the age of Iron Stars, some 10^1500 years from now. Our, what, 80 years of existence is supposed to do what? We create our own meaning. Some of us lack the constitution to render meaning at all. All of those meanings will be forgotten 10^1500 years from now. We're winding down via entropy: inexorable, immutable, intransigent.

"Life", to me, is the state of chemistry in my brain. My experience of life occurs in my mind, and we're all victims of our own biochemistry. Neuroplasticity offers only a cart before the horse. Yes, I can change my mind -- but only within the constraints of the mind from which it can change. Victim mentality? Perhaps. Deterministic universe? You bet. Don't bring up Schrodinger. Let's pretend we're not subatomic particles. We live in a deterministic universe. Free will? No. Unfalsifiable? Sure, but only until our brain scans improve.

Long story short: I am sad, chemically dependent, non-functioning, and about to call it quits. I don't like fighting the fight, it perpetuates the very thing I'm seeking to ameliorate. Yet passivity isn't an option either: eat or be eaten.

I hate this world, and I love everything in it.
--
julian.
Click to expand...
Damn...that's well put but very painful to read but I've lived it so I know it's true. I'm perfectly willing to check out myself for pretty much the same philosophy. And the idea used to make me sad but no longer does. I wonder if this is a function of experience, age, or awareness?
 
I live in WA state which is a test state for the new draconian thou shalt not take opiates for pain regime. There is a legal limit to how much you can receive unless you have a registered case of cancer. So most doctors here will no longer risk their licenses to ameliorate chronic pain. It has been quite the boon for the street-level dealers, I'm sure. I wish Western medicine would actually study pain and pain relief and it's affects on the quality of life. And I also have treatment-resistant severe depression. You never know when one is going to appear nor for how long. The severity will differ. I am speaking only for myself of course. I am perceived as a lazy druggie who should magically get off her ass and do whatever the current norm is. I can't do that. I may be okay for 6 months and then get slammed with a year of intractable demoralizing bewildering depression. If you don't have a mental illness, or whatever you choose to call it, you cannot understand how it pounds you into smaller and smaller particles until you no longer care to exist. And if something works, like morphine, it is sure to be denied you. It is almost inevitable. I have often thought that there should be different enclosures for different diagnoses or addictions and instead of marginalizing or imprisoning you, you had access to your drug of choice and a comfortable niche to do it in until you were done or dead. It would be much cheaper than the current justice system and perhaps a bit more pragmatic. Always the drive to prolong someone's life. Think of the economy! Just a small subversive thought.
 
Hi Kuboaa, I don't think you were being obnoxious. Sorry if I came across as being unsympathetic. I've known many people, myself included, and girlfriends and close friends over the years who for reasons they have never been able to understand have gravitated towards drugs and alcohol, not necessarily to get them high, but to allow them to feel 'normal' and to function. I think this is misunderstood by a lot of people. Sure various drugs are used for 'recreational' purposes but like I say it's not always the case. Are we self indulgent, should we be able to just 'pull ourselves together'? If only it were that simple. Most people don't want to feel shit. Is it biochemical? I don't know, but a lot of us are self medicating as it appears to be the best option open to us. I've tried the SSRI/NSRI etc. path and it doesn't offer an answer for me, so perhaps I've answered my own question, at least as far as far as the norepenephrine/ serotonin neurotransmitters are concerned. Perhaps it's all down to dopamine?
 
"I hate this world and Love everything in it." Hit home,

yet my love for this awesome system of chemicals, specks, dust, plants , animals and marvels of biochemicalengineering gave me a lot to do and utilize my ADHD superpowers. Yoga and meditation work at centering me to the present, rather than the wormhole of sadness and abstract delusional cosmic view my wee human mind can conjure.

We're born
we feel
we do
we feel
we learn
we hate
we forget
we love
we do
we enjoy
we hate
we learn
we die on a Tuesday

we are here now, might as well make the best of it.

All the best julian .
 
What a great thread and what an introduction.

Some of the things said will resonate with those that have felt 'lost' at some time or the other (depression, addiction etc). Great to have you on board kuboaa. I do hope that you stick around, chat to a few people and share more of your thoughts.
 
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