Detox About to do a Kratom Detox

[Jabberwocky]

That you're with your folks and have your support team checking in on you regularly is good enough AFAIC. It is really rather funny actually, you and I simply far to alike for words - I mean with the way you have described yourself and how you've been preparing for this. I felt exactly the same way, that I must be somewhere on the autism spectrum, when I was organizing my taper and detox off methadone (a very rigorous process that took about a year and a half - though it was next to painless).

I don't think you'll run into any problems that you won't be able to overcome. Not just with the stuff you have at your disposal, but with the knowledge you have on the issues that are involved and may come up during your detox. You've clearly done your homework! Knowledge is probably the single most important weapon when it comes to kicking. It's uncertainty about what is going on that really triggers the fear, stress and anxiety that makes the whole process so much harder.

Be careful with the phenibut, try not to over do it. Too much of that stuff will lead to a horrible, horrible, god awesome hangover. I have a feeling you'll really benefit from the ketamine once you're a few more days in and things get rough. IMO it should be the kind of thing you go to marked "in emergency" because it will take you straight out of the acute pain and discomfort of withdrawal, if only for a couple hours or so. More so than anything else you have though.

Sorry to hear about that nightmare. Stuff like that can be super jarring, and dreams tend to get a lot more vivid when we stop using and change our habits. But you can use the experience to your advantage by reflecting on how it is just a part of your process of integrating what you're doing changing your lifestyle so dramatically for the better by dealing with the kratom habit you've developed.

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

nice one man, thanks. I wonder how many times I'm going to thank you by the time this diary is finished hehe

just a quick reply to say - I kind of really dislike the phenibut anyways. Not sure why people rate it, it just makes me feel like I'm on a weird toxic ecstasy pill or an SSRI or something equally non recreational or non comforting. Can be an option nonetheless.

yeah the K is very useful for perspective. My theory (probably from somewhere else) is that we are stuck in channels of thinking, reinforced through repetition, worry, habits, whatever, and those end up as very strong neuronal connections. It can be really hard to break those, especially when they are very chronic and negative and reinforced through worry and rumination or drug related habits. Kind of like a river channel running very deep and strong over time. But there are other ways to see things, those possibilities are so close you can almost touch them, but the river keeps flowing same as always. But you can make new channels for the river, maybe dig them over time through hard work, or overflow and flood and through the tributaries the river takes a new path. When you take ketamine or psychedelics, I read one Dr who believes they make the mind more supple and plastic. So those channels suddenly become less ingrained and you can see the light, or the path through the trees just over there, next to the main river that is so close all that time. You get a new perspective and make new connections. Even if it's just for a moment, you can see it's possible. That is what I think is so reassuring or helpful therapeutically, especially for chronic depressives etc who rarely ever get a new angle day to day. So yeah, every now and then I might use it just to remember the possibilities.

 

[Jabberwocky]

No worries, you are very welcome. This is why we're hear after all

This is an awesome thread related to ketamine/NMDAr antagonists I discovered when I first encountered how beneficial they were to treat opioid withdrawal/dependence: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...lection-of-the-evidence-and-anecdotal-reports

This is the thread I created where I was originally turned onto the above: https://bluelight.org/vb/threads/60...diction-!?highlight=dxm+nmda+piracetam+heroin

NMDA receptor antagonists in particular are very fascinating substances from the point of view of recovery, dependency, tolerance and mental health.

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

awesome, any links or any of the above any relation to ibogaine? I'm googled out for now...

 

[Jabberwocky]

Not sure off the top of my head. Ibogaine/iboga does act as a NMDAr antagonist IIRC, but this stuff mostly covers the more commonly available stuff like ketamine and DXM (and to a degree MXE).

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

...when I was organizing my taper and detox off methadone (a very rigorous process that took about a year and a half - though it was next to painless).

I don't think you'll run into any problems that you won't be able to overcome. Not just with the stuff you have at your disposal, but with the knowledge you have on the issues that are involved and may come up during your detox. You've clearly done your homework! Knowledge is probably the single most important weapon when it comes to kicking. It's uncertainty about what is going on that really triggers the fear, stress and anxiety that makes the whole process so much harder. ...

PS - this was important and reassuring to read and interesting RE autism Have been preparing on and off for about 9 months and so so keen to keep it smooth from here on for so many reasons, despite the binge beginning contradiction.

 

[Stargazer]

I think the way you've researched and prepared is wise. And the patience to take it slow. I don't believe it's necessary to have to feel the hell of w/d and detoxing. I have. It did nothing but traumatize me. I still feel anxiety at the thought of 2 cold turkey detoxes in jail. It proves nothing. It's not like I won money for it or received a gold star.

I think you'rs doing great. Progress not perfection.

 

[the last dose]

I think the way you've researched and prepared is wise. And the patience to take it slow. I don't believe it's necessary to have to feel the hell of w/d and detoxing. I have. It did nothing but traumatize me. I still feel anxiety at the thought of 2 cold turkey detoxes in jail. It proves nothing. It's not like I won money for it or received a gold star.

I think you'rs doing great. Progress not perfection.



Im with ya 10yearsgone, I did a slow ween it was painful at times but i think as i was weening and emptying pain receptors i was also filling them naturally with exercise and lifting weights.
In the end wds were not bad for me with the right comfort meds ready, this is after being on high doses oxy daily for over 20 years. I would do that ween again maybe would have jumped two weeks sooner the last drop in dose was rough but doable!. I have two freinds that had to detox in jail years back NOT the way you wanna do it, you want to do it once and the right way as painless as possible life is tough enough!

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

I think the way you've researched and prepared is wise. And the patience to take it slow. I don't believe it's necessary to have to feel the hell of w/d and detoxing. I have. It did nothing but traumatize me. I still feel anxiety at the thought of 2 cold turkey detoxes in jail. It proves nothing. It's not like I won money for it or received a gold star.

I think you'rs doing great. Progress not perfection.

yeah I understand the value of the taper after an accidental cold turkey from backstreet benzos after a dodgy night out one weekend. I don't think I even knew benzos had WDs. Traumatic indeed. I had to do a pitch for a film class.... those panic attacks were something else!

thanks

 

[the last dose]

best of luck DTLC, sounds like you did your research! its all about how much research you put in and will power with weening sounds like you have both.
BTW i have used almost all the same vitamins and herbal supplements as you and some i still use, only one you might wanna add is DLPA

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

DAY TWO - Detox Diary 2

DAY TWO

2PM/early update - good warm night's sleep although not really enough hours, 2.5g after breakfast at around 9am. I like it on an a full stomach as it has a slow onset and duration. The whole morning was fairly warm, I think mostly due to the loperamide yesterday. Fell asleep for a bit, (I think mild stim withdrawals setting in, and I have a sore throat). All seems bearable, but I can't find the stability of mind to study yet, just reading around relevant topics to get some inspiration back in my life to do that and all the other shit I need to. Got some meditation in last night and glad for that, but focus was pretty sketchy.

At this point I'm getting quite anxious and desperate for a larger dose, I've just eaten so want to wait for a little bit then it will be 7.5g. If I wasn't pushing myself a bit I would have had it a couple hours ago I reckon.

Midnight Update - Successful day overall I reckon, managed to stick to 15g so 2.5 lower than planned. Took no stimulant drugs, and only 0.1g of skunk and a tiny bit of kava now before bed. Also taken 8mg loperamide as I do feel very not-high right now... don't want to wake in the night with restless legs as it's perhaps my least favourite WDS. Very tired and my synapses feel like they are burning and quite depressed. I think that's the mild stimulant/amphetamine withdrawals adding it's bit.

I managed to get a run in, didn't get much of a high from it but deep down it feels good. Overall did spend a reasonable part of the day productive and positive. 600mg of Sam-e seemed to work well and just general careful use of all my vitamins seemed to fight the worst of any stim WDS, it's only the last hour that's started to feel pretty shit. I did get pretty high actually off the 7.5g after lunch, the mood swings are kind of fascinating to watch :D ... when I used to use only 7.5g a day stable I was used to the hangover feeling each night and morning, so it's not too far away from that right now I guess. Going to try to meditate and go to sleep. Tmrw I booked a massage! it was a present voucher thing last Christmas. Unfortunately psych appt with my least favourite professional got rescheduled for tmrw too so one cancels the other.

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

best of luck DTLC, sounds like you did your research! its all about how much research you put in and will power with weening sounds like you have both.
BTW i have used almost all the same vitamins and herbal supplements as you and still do, only one you might wanna add is DLPA

thanks man, time will tell

will check out DLPA. I'm thinking before the jump off week to stop all of them, maybe even 2 weeks - so during the final kratom week and during the comfort meds week. That way the jump off is fully supported. I try to keep in the know about health foods etc, the main ones I think really have value are fish oils, magnesium, and turmeric... and anything gut health related. EDIT: and superfood B-complex stuff, but you can get that from a good diet anyways.. All the other stuff it's hard to really know if it's working without controlling your environment etc I remember the first time I ate magnesium and that feeling of calm was great, was so deficient!

PS- to any readers. Probably will include this in the first post notes but I discovered the hard way that you need to keep your salts/electrolytes up when using kratom long term as it's a diuretic. I started to get very lethargic after about 9 months of using. Drinking coconut water with all that potassium was an instant fix pretty much.

 

[the last dose]

DTLC do you have gabapentin or pregabapentin also anything for bp as it may rise, like clonidine.

 

[Jabberwocky]

What do you do when you are starting to get anxious or depressed DTLC? Any thoughts about something you can do in those moments to help regulate your mood and distract yourself from getting caught up in thoughts about using? Like getting some exercise, meditating, yoga, etc? Something you enjoy doing that fills your mind up so your thoughts don't get hung up on kratom too much.

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

DTLC do you have gabapentin or pregabapentin also anything for bp as it may rise, like clonidine.

good point, no will look into it. I have a GP appt on 6th Feb so will ask them to check me out. Body does feel kind of fucked right now. I'm also looking at a menu of some meds at the moment trying to decide between a couple of options. I partly got triggered as one dealer owes me an 80mg oxycodone sample and there's some cheap morphine continus going (could probably only afford about 100mg so nothing too dramatic). Trying to decide if I can negotiate with myself a reward if I stick to certain goals or use those drugs to step down on the kratom more. Thinking the oxy could be a reward or even a tool to manage to step down like 50% in one go, and the MSC to go into the final week of comfort meds as it's slow release...

What do you do when you are starting to get anxious or depressed DTLC? Any thoughts about something you can do in those moments to help regulate your mood and distract yourself from getting caught up in thoughts about using? Like getting some exercise, meditating, yoga, etc? Something you enjoy doing that fills your mind up so your thoughts don't get hung up on kratom too much.

for sure, you should know me by now - I just need to write it all in the post space I reserved above That said, I was really shit at using my tools recently and doing a fair amount of staring into space/depressed.

going to try to come up with a specific more something for those moments RE thoughts about kratom. Something alternate to lock thoughts on to visually I guess. I've do have exercise, meditation, and even some yoga instruction to come later (I know a guy who owes me for some work I did, so I've bartered some lessons out of him). Quite a few bits to add to the holistic list when I re-edit this thread later on.

You have just reminded me though, I discovered that singing is fucking awesome. Not even singing, just opening your mouth and letting sound come out for a long time, can be a scream, can be like open mouthed humming or whatever. Also singing/shouting while driving is really awesome as you can't always do it in your average space. I heard a idea the other day about driving in a car being one of the last places of privacy left in the modern world (depending where you live I guess). Just letting any sound out, especially stupid funny shit seems to be very therapeutic and liberating while driving.

 

[the last dose]

I would stay away from oxy idea DTLC, morphine would be a better choice but trust me if you get lyrica along with some of your other comfort meds you should not need oxy or morphine. I would rather go with one 8mg strip of sub cut into 1 gram and .5 gram pieces and ween down for 4 or 5 days. I had my kratom ready and the subs all cut up and ready and i actually didnt need either probably cause of my long ass tough taper.

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

I would stay away from oxy idea DTLC, morphine would be a better choice but trust me if you get lyrica along with some of your other comfort meds you should not need oxy or morphine. I would rather go with one 8mg strip of sub cut into 1 gram and .5 gram pieces and ween down for 4 or 5 days. I had my kratom ready and the subs all cut up and ready and i actually didnt need either probably cause of my long ass tough taper.

yeah, I think I'm talking myself into "the long kiss goodbye" or "breakup sex"... you know it's kind of bad for you but you do it anyway and then you cry afterwards. But it's still definitely over. Also the "end on a high" idea...

edit: the reasoning being, I don't intend to do strong opiates for at least 6 months after this. It's something that I may yet have to learn whether I'm capable or not of truly regulating my drug use. I'm still a believer. The AA crew would call me "in denial". If I don't get a good behavioural plan in place though, yeah I'll be in trouble...

in my original detox plan I wrote about 6 months ago I had it structured so that each week I would use some Dihydrocodeine for 2 days just to ease the step down more rapidly, like 50% taper drops for 3 weeks. That was before I got access to all the above and my tolerance increased a lot.

depending on the next few days I may use an extra substance of 2 to take more rapid steps down and speed up the taper. That's the only way I can justify it's OK to myself to be using this stuff. As smooth as possible without fucking up is the plan - maybe even enjoyable! :D

I also take some enjoyment from just owning drugs. Something about having them around but not using them is reassuring to me. It's going to be hard though when it is literally time to not use anything for at least 5 days a week. That's the true test


edit: and yeah, unfortunately my subs are tablets so gonna have to crush them to powder and weigh them on shitty scales

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

DAY THREE - Detox Diary Day 3

DAY 3

6PM - Right now I'm at 7.5g for the whole day, had a massage and a psych appt earlier. Massage = fucking great I can't begin to explain, my neck and shoulders are so fucked from hunching on stims and from anxiety. The psych appt was actually OK. I ran this plan by him and he didn't disagree in principle, though he doesn't quite know the scope of how many substances I have. He forced me to commit to a date of sobriety (Kratom free) - 13th March, and is helping me with some other practical shit.

RE WDS and state of mind, I think I can probably just have a joint and total 12.5g and I'll be good for the day. I'm considering really going for it and sticking to 12.5g for rest of the week and an aggressive step down the taper on Monday with some opiate support. Stim WDS are minor now as I tapered so slowly last week. Saving the primary vitamins, Sam-e and loperamide for now, they will be better served when I feel like I actually need them. Probably the exercise, daylight and new routine are helping in general here.

edit: So I ended up on only 10g for the whole day which was quite an acheivement, but I smoked some of the skunk and it blew my mind compared to normally when I've been eating it this week. I normally don't like smoking it these days, but just for a change. Fell asleep pretty much instantly after the joint, then woke up later, ate pizza, and back to sleep again haha....

so - cannabis is quite helpful for easy a kratom detox I'd say. It's been 3 days in a row of cannabis so that's my rule of thumb to switch or stop normally.

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

by the way now I'm at home alone for a week. It's the true "addict" test. I'm having lots of different fantasies, but most of the hardcore one's just seem distasteful and less enjoyable than simply sticking to moving forward on this.

 

[the last dose]

DTLC keep yourself busy do you have bluetooth headphones i bought them a week before wds i read good shit about they stimulate the release of dopamine in your brain. I wore them all the time during wds and still do now when i lift weights and exercise or go for walks. I did my taper slowly after 20 years on oxy daily i was gonna do this once and right, still i was scared shit when i jumped i didnt know what was coming my way. After weening and having lots of comfort meds ready 150mgs Lyrica, clonidine, weed brownies, loperamide, xanax, Methocarbamol (muscle relaxer), 8mgs subs, lots of kratom. I was substituting kratom for some of my 15mgs roxy doses near the end of my taper. 6 grams bali was equal to about 15 mgs roxy. I did 6 grams three times day for a couple days it worked great. I hated the taste tried every method i hated the toss and wash so i bought some 00 capsules and filled a shitload incase needed them during wds. All them years and worrying about wds i couldnt believe how easy i got off the first day i took 300mgs lyrica 3 times ate weed brownies and did clonidine and dramamine and for the most part i was just stoned out of my mind. I ate weed brownies for three days no other food i was washing them down with gaterade. By the end of the first day i was starting to think i fucking got this but after 20 years i wasnt gonna celebrate for atleast 48 hours!. After 3 days i knew it didnt have much left for me i was so fucking happy!! like being reborn! crazy emotions all good stuff i got the monkey off my back. The combo of high dosing lyrica and weeds brownies were the staple! funny thing i was getting so stoned i backed off the brownies only doing lyrica and realized most of the stoning was from the lyrica. I was getting so much weird ass energy from lyrica the first couple days of wds. your quote- (As smooth as possible without fucking up is the plan - maybe even enjoyable! :D) -well even though i didnt eat shit for 3 days and had crazy knockout sleep for an hour here and there it was enjoyable at times i was bumping into shit alot balance was definitely off!. I had worse days in my ween and even some worse days during paws. Tapering right then having the right comfort meds ready you can make it much easier and yeah enjoyable at times, so dam worth the pain during the taper to land smoothly at the end.