Nandrolone and recovery

[Genetic Freak]

I've heard over the years nandrolone metabolites can present in the body 6-12 months after cessation making user prone to failing drug tests..

The same has been stated with regards metabolites and recovery, ie: HPTA takes longer to recover from nandrolone..

I don't know where the hypothesis of nandrolones long lasting HPTA suppression originated, but I found this from Nandi back in 2004:

I've never believed that long lasting nandrolone metabolites had anything to do with slowed recovery. This is evident from comparing figures 1 and 3 in the often cited study by Minto et al

http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/full/281/1/93

After a single deca injection testosterone returns to normal as plasma nandrolone levels drop to zero over the course of a month. If there were long lasting nandrolone metabolites contributing to suppression, testosterone would still be suppressed after plasma nandrolone returned to zero, which is not the case.

Thoughts..

 

[CFC]

I vaguely remember that discussion from CEM at the time! I would suggest we're talking about a threshold level of metabolites though, which clearly a single injection wouldn't cause, hence a lack of notable suppression from a single injection. Nandi should have known that. Not that it means the metabolite argument is correct though. It could be deca's oestrogenic nature (or combination + metabolites) causing HPTA damage.

 

[Genetic Freak]

I vaguely remember that discussion from CEM at the time! I would suggest we're talking about a threshold level of metabolites though, which clearly a single injection wouldn't cause, hence a lack of notable suppression from a single injection. Nandi should have known that. Not that it means the metabolite argument is correct though. It could be deca's oestrogenic nature (or combination + metabolites) causing HPTA damage.

I've read this recently:

These metabolites can be thought of simply as the end waste product of parent molecule. So in essence they are NOT whole or metabolically active..

 

[CFC]

These metabolites can be thought of simply as the end waste product of parent molecule. So in essence they are NOT whole or metabolically active

Certainly we don't know convincingly whether 19-norandrosterone or 19-noreticholanolone impair recovery of the HPTA or not. However the most recent study comparing their levels to FSH/LH correlates to them being suppressive, as you can clearly see in the graphs >>here<<.

 

[Genetic Freak]

Certainly we don't know convincingly whether 19-norandrosterone or 19-noreticholanolone impair recovery of the HPTA or not. However the most recent study comparing their levels to FSH/LH correlates to them being suppressive, as you can clearly see in the graphs >>here<<.

Our results indicate that 19-NA, or another nandrolone metabolite, may exert a negative feed-back regulation on the hypothalamic–pituitary axis. The marked down-regulation at the start of the study was expected since this was in agreement with several other reports showing that AAS suppresses the LH and FSH secretion.

Several of the individuals had LH and FSH at or below the detection limit. These levels are in the range usually observed in pre-pubertal males and in the lower range for male adults. However, the long persistence of low levels of gonadotropins observed here has not previously been shown in a population study.

Two case-reports demonstrate prolonged hypogonadotropic hypogonadism following 2.5 and 4 years intake of supra-physiological doses of mixed AAS. However, in some individuals LH and FSH levels returned to normal 12 weeks following the cessation of testosterone enanthate abuse for 26 weeks..

http://sci-hub.bz/10.1016/j.jsbmb.2011.08.005

 

[CFC]

Yes, aside from those metabolites, there's not much else (that we know of) to account for deca's (and possibly other 19-nor's) harshness except it's oestrogenic nature. And I don't think that readily accounts for such potent hypogonadotrophic (secondary) hypogonadism.

To convincingly prove 19-NA and/or 19-NE suppress HPTA, we'd need a direct study though. Unfortunately I don't think we're likely to see one, as it's so peripheral (and probably unethical!)

 

[Intense]

We need more "unethical" studies..


I'll volunteer in the name of science

 

[CFC]

Seriously, lol.

That's the frustrating thing: many bodybuilders (and other illicit drug users) already voluntarily do - and will continue to - things that would never pass an ethics committee. All that potential research is going to waste on a principle. Research 'ethics' is thus ultimately perpetuating the very harms it seeks to avoid through the promotion of ignorance.

/Soapbox

 

[Intense]

Seriously, lol.

That's the frustrating thing: many bodybuilders (and other illicit drug users) already voluntarily do - and will continue to - things that would never pass an ethics committee. All that potential research is going to waste on a principle. Research 'ethics' is thus ultimately perpetuating the very harms it seeks to avoid through the promotion of ignorance.

/Soapbox

Preach