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Miscellaneous MEAI aka 'Chaperon'

perpetualdawn

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MEAI aka 'Chaperon' aka 5-Methoxy-2-indanamine
NSFW:
640px-5-Methoxy-2-indanamine.svg.png

Information is scarce on this drug, with only a few trip reports scattered about the web. The New Scientist ran an article about it, but I haven't been able to find much else. It sounds like it's on the placebo-to-mild end of the spectrum, but it could be a triple releaser since it is structurally similar to drugs like MDAI, MDA, 3-MA.

It seems to be available again, does anyone has experience with it, or any additional information/speculation?

Maybe this thread is more appropriate in the Empathogens or ADD forum?
 
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Yes, if decidedly not a psychedelic (described as a euphoriant I'd say, apart from the effects on alcohol craving) then it belongs in empathogens / ED or if unsure OD, but if it hasn't really been tried yet then I tend to place it in ADD / NSP where these kinds of threads perhaps fare well talking about the theory, compared to OD where it gets different attention.
I think I have seen Roi typically posting a lot of novel RC threads in OD though.
Don't know if this one is really something to make a fuss about. I think it was 3-methoxy-4-methylamphetamine that seemed rather promising to me as an SSRA and 5-HT2A agonist. Maybe they ought to aminoindanify that one.
 
Been testing it. It doesn't limit alcohol intake as effectively as CBD or cannabis in general, but does do something, yes.

Though it seems to have a renal load. So you'd probably need to up fluid intake. But the whole point is drinking less, so bit of a flawed setup.
 
Been testing it. It doesn't limit alcohol intake as effectively as CBD or cannabis in general, but does do something, yes.

Though it seems to have a renal load. So you'd probably need to up fluid intake. But the whole point is drinking less, so bit of a flawed setup.

I'm pretty sure "alcohol intake reducer" is just Nutt's marketing angle - since it is unlikely to be anything but a mild and fairly selective serotonin releasing agent, a more fitting description would be "diet ecstasy" - the release of serotonin causes increased feelings of sociability/empathy and well-being/contentness that would otherwise be attained by getting mildly drunk, and it will synergize with a modest amount of alcohol so that you'd have the sociability but not the potential for disinhibited aggression that comes with being moderately drunk.
 
Been testing it. It doesn't limit alcohol intake as effectively as CBD or cannabis in general, but does do something, yes.

Though it seems to have a renal load. So you'd probably need to up fluid intake. But the whole point is drinking less, so bit of a flawed setup.

Can you talk more about it's effects? Is it actually psychoactive at all, can you notice any roll (MDMA-like) quality to it?
 
Can you talk more about it's effects? Is it actually psychoactive at all, can you notice any roll (MDMA-like) quality to it?

I too would be interested to hear anything about it. It's such a rare substance that any information you could provide would be helpful. Even if it's boring you should consider writing a trip report.
 
Yes, please do write a TR if possible, I've never even heard of this until now.
 
The difference between 30mg on its own versus 30mg with a couple of beers is so large that exploring it on its own feels like a waste. So I've always mixed with alcohol (or at least with another substance), trying doses up to 50mg. I must disagree with Hodor: using it like this feels very close to directly upping the "drunk" variable of the alcohol experience, giving that confusion you feel when you really start getting off your tits. No urge to redose there, doesn't feel anything like "diet xtc". Wouldn't like to socialize on a dose higher than 30mg.

Plugging is stronger and hits faster, but is less like being drunk. Vaguely reminiscent of that feeling MDAI has but MDMA hasn't. Went well with otherwise shitty tryptamines.

I went to 75mg yesterday, with booze as usual. Finally there's a clear serotonergic glow, some sign it's related to the empathogens.
At this dose it very much is like diet xtc: a brief flash of some stoney rolling feel.

I suppose I can do a classical trip report next, with timeline and stuff. 100mg or something?
 
Interesting CT ^ thanks for your info.
Ironic that what Nutt was billing as a drug to replace booze turns out to work really well when combined with booze.

Any information you have to describe it is super helpful to the world, since not many people have written on the web about their experiments with it at all.

Did you ever try combining it with any of the 2C-X? I'm very curious if it would work well with 2C-D, my gut feeling is yes.
Have you ever tried it at higher doses (like 75mg) without booze?
How much booze do you usually combine it with?
Can you describe what "MDAI has but MDMA hasn't" for those of us who've never tried MDAI (one of those ones I've wanted to try forever, but never got the chance).

Thanks again for your info, it's invaluable!
 
Alright then, 100mg on its own it is!


T+00:00 Plugged 100mg. No alcohol consumed, had a puff or three of hash earlier today. Note that even though I didn't notice tolerance while fiddling with low doses, the fact I've taken 75mg yesterday must be taken into account.

T+00:05 Clear signs of onset, squeasiness in the stomach. Did not experience this on low doses, even when plugged.

T+00:10 Mild mental effects, nothing pronounced. Probably it's just bringing out lingering hash aftereffects.

T+00:15 Squeasiness gone, no change in mental effects. Starting to regret not having had a beer with it... well to be fair I am starting to feel somewhat floaty.. heartbeat is noticably present and steady.

T+00:20 Mild though pleasant tingling sensation in the head. Warm belly glow. Increased blood flow in limbs, or increased awareness of it. Ever so light kidney pangs.

T+00:25 First shivers. Clear empathogenic effects. Looking at a sandwich and feeling put off.

T+00:30 Still not yesterday's warm spine surge of 75mg orally on top of alcohol. Starting to regret lack of alcohol again.

T+00:35 Mental fuzziness is increasing, would hate to do calculations like this. Stomach feels how it typically feels on serotonergics, you know, when breathing tickles. Slight headache noted. Which is interesting, I've had it before in combo, but blamed alcohol.

T+00:45 Mental fuzziness has reached plateau I bet. Sometimes I feel as if I'm getting sharper, but then it goes back to the same kind of fuzzy again. Mild gut butterfly.

T+00:50 Laying down in bed as I got cold. Revisiting some painful memories. I don't feel like screaming like usual. Then again, memory's kinda fuzzy as well. Focussing on one topic is hard.

T+01:00 Slipped into meditative state, surely plateau is reached. The thirst for alcohol is gone as well, even though I haven't felt "drunk".

T+01:10 Laying down started giving a heart load. Back to sitting again. Considering drinking a beer to relax muscles, even though I'm not thirsty. Starting to get bored with the plateau as well.

T+01:15 Yeah gonna grab that beer, am able to even play chess again. Mental fuzziness is still there, but since nothing's changing it's functional enough to calculate with.

T+01:30 Beer engaged, and I figured I could as well check whether a redose on booze gets me yesterday's effects on 75mg oral with booze. Plugged another 50mg.

T+01:35 I can wash onset squeasiness away now! Already feel fairly intoxicated after a few sips of beer. Can't be bothered to test, but losing ability for chess again I'm sure.

T+01:40 Finished first beer. Pouring in the second one. Last one in the case.

T+01:45 Turns out I can play chess. But feeling rather impatient calculating. Not that I feel I'd rather hug my opponent, but you know, some displacement noted on that spectrum. Slight headache returns.

T+01:50 Warm body sensations. Good moment to drink the second beer ad fundum I reckon.

T+01:55 Myeah, if the spine tingling had been on the menu, I would be feeling it already. Preparing the hash pipe.

T+02:00 Hit of hash taken.

T+02:05 Reaction time is gone. As it should on a 3-way combo. Though it's that serotonergic push that makes it so dangerous. I'm remembering the first time I encountered a busy road on an empathogen. I really felt like just crossing it and trusting the cars would stop for me. A friend pulled me back onto the sidewalk. What a scary learning experience that was! But yeah, reaction time down the drain.

T+02:10 Another hit of hash taken.

T+02:30 Pleasantly messed up.

T+03:00 Been going strong and steady, only just now I've started to feel tired.

T+03:05 Maybe a puff will pick me up?

T+03:30 Appetite has returned. Definitely coming down. Having another puff or two.

T+04:00 Still high, but tired. Good state for watching crap on youtube.

T+07:00 ok just tired now

T+14:00 Woke up feeling slightly tired, mostly refreshed. Would not have felt this sharp after equal dose of MDMA.



To answer your questions:
Did you ever try combining it with any of the 2C-X? I'm very curious if it would work well with 2C-D, my gut feeling is yes.

Most phenethylamines have been outlawed where I live, so I'm not bothering with them anymore. That said, phen tofu should go well with empathogen tofu. :) Maybe throw 5-MeO-DALT in there as well for good measure.

How much booze do you usually combine it with?
Say 2 to 12 bottles of lager. I do have high tolerance, been drinking liberally for a couple of years now.

Can you describe what "MDAI has but MDMA hasn't" for those of us who've never tried MDAI (one of those ones I've wanted to try forever, but never got the chance).
Hard to describe. My MDAI adventure ended with laying puking in a shower. So wrapping more details around that chemical doesn't exactly fill my head with rosy poetry. But I'm talking about a cold, metally sort of feeling. Not unlike the feeling that goes with your typical 2C-X body load. It's not that strong in MDAI, but something about feeling it in an empathogen is very off-putting. Not that a combo wouldn't be a great as mentioned above, but it leaves something lacking in MDAI on its own.
 
Cool, thanks for sharing. :) Feel free to post it in Trip Reports too so it can be more easily found.

I wonder what it would be like at 100mg without a very recent tolerance?
 
Thanks hodor, that was interesting - and many thanks for the TR, Chris!

If anyone guineapigs themselves 'for science' please make sure there isn't any tolerance nor other drugs in your system or it will make it very hard to even rely on it as anecdotal evidence. Am not trying to sound ungrateful, it's just technically impossible to explain the effects qualitatively, quantitatively and reasonably otherwise.

I updated the molecular structure in the OP.

This still seems very out of place in PD especially since hodor points out that we should expect anything but 5-HT2A agonism with these... unfortunately I am afraid it will be more out of place or just plain lost in/on other BL fora but this is destined for OD since PD should be careful about being an orphanage like it already is a little bit ;)

Personally I would have zero expectancies of drugs like these being full-on empathogenic on their own at this point, it's clearly not what they are meant to be useful for imho... as 'primers' though they are interesting, and MDAI can also be interesting together with the right stimulants to try and piece your own roll together. Upside being that it can be less neurotoxic but we don't really have a good idea on how much strain is put on certain organs especially with combinations and the dosages generally not being *that* low.

The subject of priming seems really complex and vague, like it was when Shulgin talked about it. If elucidating what a drug does on its own is already difficult enough, try explaining how drugs can activate a hidden potential of other drugs!

I have not read the New Scientist article yet, is there a theory or any evidence in there?

I wonder whether it has anything to do with inhibiting alcohol dehydrogenase, or actual direct pharmacological interactions...
 
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I have not read the New Scientist article yet, is there a theory or any evidence in there?

Unfortunately no. It's the kind of article you might read in a non-science publication like the NYT or the Guardian etc.

Chris, your TR was entertaining, I enjoyed your invented word "squeasiness"
 
Oh you hardheads, always complaining the world isn't simple enough.. :p Good luck with luring in your pure data, Solipsis.

I was in London this year to catch Thomas Ray's talk at Breaking Convention. If you're interested in drugs activating hidden potentials of other drugs, do check him out.

Glad to be of service, perpetualdawn. I'll see how long I can keep my greedy paws off of it to shoo away tolerance, Xorkoth!
 
it still seems legal and i found some place to get it, but the descriptions here still elude me. so its like diet xtc, not sure what that means for one. second, what does it mean, it doesnt go well by itself? it does release serotonin, right? how can it not work by itself? why do you need alcohol for its use?? the whole point is, im trying to not drink at all, so this one is not suitable at all???
 
it still seems legal and i found some place to get it, but the descriptions here still elude me. so its like diet xtc, not sure what that means for one. second, what does it mean, it doesnt go well by itself? it does release serotonin, right? how can it not work by itself? why do you need alcohol for its use?? the whole point is, im trying to not drink at all, so this one is not suitable at all???

Selective serotonin releasing agents aren't all that euphoric. The "magic" of MDMA results from the drug being not just a potent serotonin releaser, but also releasing moderate amounts of dopamine and noradrenaline, as well being psychedelic to some extent. Without the dopamine and noradrenaline, you might actually find yourself couch-locked rather than full of energy.
The closely related Methylenedioxyaminoindane (MDAI) had its fans, but it only really seemed to shine when combined with other substances. People on Reddit eventually developed a recipe for how much MDAI, 2-Fluoro-Amphetamine and 4-HO-MET one had to combine to approximate an MDMA roll.

And seeing as how Para-Methoxy-Amphetamine (PMA) is less recreational than MDMA, it would make sense to assume that MeAI would also be inferior to MDAI, but that may just be conjecture.

Of course it all depends on what you're looking for - if you're not actually looking for a full-blown "roll" and just want a mild empathogenic buzz, then MeAI might be a decent choice.
 
Hmm, I wonder how this compares subjectively to something like 4C-D?
 
dont think so, on its own its rather weak and nothing specíal but in combination with other serotonergic amphetamines (4fma, 3mmc etc) it really shines. mdai was ok, best indane was 5I-AI.
 
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