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January 2017 Getting/Staying Clean/Sober Thread v. Goodbye Holidaze, Hello 2017!

subotai said:
At this point, I don't know if I'm staying clean because if I really want to be clean or if I just don't want to go back to the jail/rehab cycle.

I don't even know if I'm really trying to go to college. I guess that's considered Plan "A" right now. But Plan B is real close, and all it really entails is me saving up a comfortable amount of money (maybe like 10k) and just moving out to Colorado with no real plan except to get a job doing w/e
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I identified quite a bit with your post, especially that bit.

I'm also quite attached to my career. It's one of my very few other interests other than drugs, actually, and is invaluable to me really...it gives my life "meaningful purpose", I guess is the best way to put it, and I think that's something many people strive for (and some never attain), so I feel lucky in that regard.

Anyway, if working outdoors in the fresh air sounds appealing to you, perhaps you should try commercial fishing. :) PM me if you want additional details. When I work I do right by myself (I stop doing drugs and I eat a clean diet/get lots of exercise) and I do right by the world because I "give back" as an agricultural worker...if I didn't have that in my life I don't know what I'd do, honestly.
 
Damn, Burnt, I wish I could say such positive things about my job! That's awesome that you have something so compelling and positive in your life. Shit, maybe I'll hang up my computer and get a job outdoors (not really; I think that ship has sailed, so to speak ;)).

Peace.
 
simco said:
Damn, Burnt, I wish I could say such positive things about my job! That's awesome that you have something so compelling and positive in your life. Shit, maybe I'll hang up my computer and get a job outdoors (not really; I think that ship has sailed, so to speak ;)).

Peace.
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I'd have to take anti-nausea meds to constantly be on a small boat.

I love getting outdoors though. I go camping whenever I can. Lots of beautiful nature down here in southern California.
 
Captain.Heroin said:
congrats! that's 9 days longer than I have. :)

I'm always amazed when people quit weed because I feel completely unable to.
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Thanks Cap. It's out of necessity, I wish I could smoke up like I used to but it just leads me back to dope. Guess my brain just got wired that way in the end. 21 years was a good run.
 
kickitnow said:
Thanks Cap. It's out of necessity, I wish I could smoke up like I used to but it just leads me back to dope. Guess my brain just got wired that way in the end. 21 years was a good run.
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like using pot will make you crave/seek out dope, meaning heroin? meth?

Never heard that before but I believe you, and I think that's awesome that you were able to quit.

I always feel so awful just coming off shatter (cannabis extract) alone. It's so insane to admit but it's true.
 
I don't think it is insane. Cannabis use, while I find it can be wonderfully therapeutic and has many healthy used and clinical applications (as do many other drugs, from cocaine to fentanyl to methamphetamine to MDMA to LSD), is hardly without its potential risks.

The brain is an amazing organ, how it will adapt to whatever we throw at it. Too bad our feelings are generally intensified during the transition from one state of being (such as constantly taking X substance to constant taking Y substance or no substance at all) and we become highly sensitized.

Such is life! Work with what we got I say. How long has it been since you got off the bupe CH? As you know I will forever remember you from my time on the stuff, when I first really started to notice you around BL/OD. Really identified with you my friend. Still do :)
 
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Captain.Heroin said:
like using pot will make you crave/seek out dope, meaning heroin? meth?

Never heard that before but I believe you, and I think that's awesome that you were able to quit.

I always feel so awful just coming off shatter (cannabis extract) alone. It's so insane to admit but it's true.
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It's more that when I'm high on weed, familiar thought patterns kick in and lead me back to heroin use. I actually hate heroin without weed. It makes me angsty. I've always used the two together.


I guess it's similar to how you might want to avoid hanging around the same places you scored dope in. Or doing the same activities. Like similar stimuli lead me to think of heroin. I went 18 days clean while overseas in november (off both weed and smack) and when I came back I was fine until I sparked up. I was scoring dope within hours.

Sorry you've struggled with quitting. I guess I was focusing on the heroin WDs more at them time - any ill effects of quitting weed were probably just lumped in with feeling shitty altogether.
 
kickitnow said:
It's more that when I'm high on weed, familiar thought patterns kick in and lead me back to heroin use. I actually hate heroin without weed. It makes me angsty. I've always used the two together.


I guess it's similar to how you might want to avoid hanging around the same places you scored dope in. Or doing the same activities. Like similar stimuli lead me to think of heroin. I went 18 days clean while overseas in november (off both weed and smack) and when I came back I was fine until I sparked up. I was scoring dope within hours.

Sorry you've struggled with quitting. I guess I was focusing on the heroin WDs more at them time - any ill effects of quitting weed were probably just lumped in with feeling shitty altogether.
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I hope you recognize how insightful this is kickitnow:

This understanding will really empower you, how all things are connected (and how some are more than others) in how our world and our own decisions and behaviors have conditioned us. This understanding will most effectively enable you to work on really being strategic in identifying and focusing your energy on changing the more harmful of your thought patterns and behavioral tendencies. Bravo compañero! :)
 
toothpastedog said:
I don't think it is insane. Cannabis use, while I find it can be wonderfully therapeutic and has many healthy used and clinical applications (as do many other drugs, from cocaine to fentanyl to methamphetamine to MDMA to LSD), is hardly without its potential risks.

The brain is an amazing organ, how it will adapt to whatever we throw at it. Too bad our feelings are generally intensified during the transition from one state of being (such as constantly taking X substance to constant taking Y substance or no substance at all) and we become highly sensitized.

Such is life! Work with what we got I say. How long has it been since you got off the bupe CH? As you know I will forever remember you from my time on the stuff, when I first really started to notice you around BL/OD. Really identified with you my friend. Still do :)
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2 years, 2 months, and 2 weeks

it's crazy how the time flies by :)
 
Oh my fuck, why is it so hard to stay clean/sober? It seems I can only make it a couple fucking days and then boredom, cravings and all that shit set in and I gotta use something. This fucking love/hate relationship with chemicals sucks!! I love them and what they do and at the same time I hate them and what they do. Can't live with em, can't live without em. Can't deal with life with them, can't deal with life without them. It all seems so fucking hopeless sometimes. Anyway, I'm gonna try to start again tomorrow, with staying clean, that is. We'll see how long I last.
 
I never had much success getting clean or sober or staying abstinent from anything I tried to until I began to fill the void in my life with healthier stuff than the harmful patterns of substance use and behaviors I had come to depend on.

What do you love in life outside substance use? What makes you happy? I guarantee you can find something, even if you aren't currently engaged in it. Like what you enjoyed before getting into substance use perhaps? That kind of thing.
 
toothpastedog said:
I hope you recognize how insightful this is kickitnow:

This understanding will really empower you, how all things are connected (and how some are more than others) in how our world and our own decisions and behaviors have conditioned us. This understanding will most effectively enable you to work on really being strategic in identifying and focusing your energy on changing the more harmful of your thought patterns and behavioral tendencies. Bravo compañero! :)
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Thanks heaps Toothpaste,on this kick I've approached my life at every possible angle, it's not really enough to simply 'quit drugs'. I've got to become a better person in general. I gotta deal with stress in a reasonable way, rather than using something that takes the stress away then returns it with fully compounded interest. So yeah, a holistic approach.


I actually read through your brain and addiction post (as best as I could, I haven't got the best mind for science.). The stuff on the limbic brain and extinction of triggers has really helped when the cravings come. I really hate the idea of firing up those pathways in the brain.

Captain.Heroin said:
2 years, 2 months, and 2 weeks

it's crazy how the time flies by :)
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That's epic man. I'll trade you my 10 days off weed for your 2 years off opis if you like? wattayasay
 
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RDP89 said:
Oh my fuck, why is it so hard to stay clean/sober? It seems I can only make it a couple fucking days and then boredom, cravings and all that shit set in and I gotta use something. This fucking love/hate relationship with chemicals sucks!! I love them and what they do and at the same time I hate them and what they do. Can't live with em, can't live without em. Can't deal with life with them, can't deal with life without them. It all seems so fucking hopeless sometimes. Anyway, I'm gonna try to start again tomorrow, with staying clean, that is. We'll see how long I last.
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I'm guessing opiates?

I always felt extreme boredom, anhedonia, apathy, depression, etc. when coming off heroin without ORT. That's why I kept relapsing, and realizing the odds of me ever getting off heroin without ORT were slim to none, then I tried ORT.

Buprenorphine withdrawal was hellish, and all those things are there with it (depression, ahedonia, boredom, apathy, etc.) but it was to a degree I could "live with" for the long time it lasted.

I can really understand the desire to resume using when you're feeling all sorts of awful without drugs.

I wish you the best of luck tomorrow man, stay strong.

kickitnow said:
That's epic man. I'll trade you my 10 days off weed for your 2 years off opis if you like? wattayasay
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hahaha =D sounds like a deal.
 
RDP89 said:
Oh my fuck, why is it so hard to stay clean/sober? It seems I can only make it a couple fucking days and then boredom, cravings and all that shit set in and I gotta use something. This fucking love/hate relationship with chemicals sucks!! I love them and what they do and at the same time I hate them and what they do. Can't live with em, can't live without em. Can't deal with life with them, can't deal with life without them. It all seems so fucking hopeless sometimes. Anyway, I'm gonna try to start again tomorrow, with staying clean, that is. We'll see how long I last.
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So sorry to hear you're struggling. FWIW, I am totally there with you. Yeah, leaving a cherished drug is awful. And the relentless cycle of quitting, gritting our teeth, stumbling, then starting over... it's just so frustrating (I've been at this whole quitting business for about two years, without ever racking up much 'clean time').

But the more I work at this, one fact has become clearer to me... a CRUCIAL part of recovery is exactly the continued ability and willingness to stand up after a slip (or to re-focus after our thoughts run away with us), dust ourselves off, and keep trying. It totally sucks. But that's the work.

I am in no way an unalloyed fan of 12-step fellowships--highly skeptical, in fact. But I have been attending NA pretty often recently, and I've been observing something at the meetings that's relevant here. For some reason, this rarely comes up explicitly in NA literature or even in peoples' shares. But recently I've noticed a common theme in the shares of many old-timers... it took many of them a LONG FUCKING TIME to get their shit together. Unfortunately, in many peoples' reported autobiographies, it sounds like once they found "The Program," the skies parted and they were on their merry way. But as I listed more closely, it sounds more like a million failed attempts preceded most people's eventual long-term abstinence. Again, unfortunately, people often mask this fact under the not-very-compelling argument that you need to summon adequate humility before you have a hope of cleaning up...personally, that makes my eyes glaze over. But buried in there is the very-compelling-indeed reminder that long-term recovery typically rests on a lot of trial and error.

Not sure if that will be of any help to you. But for me, it does help to realize that all this hassle and exhaustion isn't wasted effort. The hassle and exhaustion are, alas, just signs that we're busting our asses to do well.

Sending you energy and good thoughts...
Sim
 
simco said:
So sorry to hear you're struggling. FWIW, I am totally there with you. Yeah, leaving a cherished drug is awful. And the relentless cycle of quitting, gritting our teeth, stumbling, then starting over... it's just so frustrating (I've been at this whole quitting business for about two years, without ever racking up much 'clean time').

But the more I work at this, one fact has become clearer to me... a CRUCIAL part of recovery is exactly the continued ability and willingness to stand up after a slip (or to re-focus after our thoughts run away with us), dust ourselves off, and keep trying. It totally sucks. But that's the work.

I am in no way an unalloyed fan of 12-step fellowships--highly skeptical, in fact. But I have been attending NA pretty often recently, and I've been observing something at the meetings that's relevant here. For some reason, this rarely comes up explicitly in NA literature or even in peoples' shares. But recently I've noticed a common theme in the shares of many old-timers... it took many of them a LONG FUCKING TIME to get their shit together. Unfortunately, in many peoples' reported autobiographies, it sounds like once they found "The Program," the skies parted and they were on their merry way. But as I listed more closely, it sounds more like a million failed attempts preceded most people's eventual long-term abstinence. Again, unfortunately, people often mask this fact under the not-very-compelling argument that you need to summon adequate humility before you have a hope of cleaning up...personally, that makes my eyes glaze over. But buried in there is the very-compelling-indeed reminder that long-term recovery typically rests on a lot of trial and error.

Not sure if that will be of any help to you. But for me, it does help to realize that all this hassle and exhaustion isn't wasted effort. The hassle and exhaustion are, alas, just signs that we're busting our asses to do well.

Sending you energy and good thoughts...
Sim
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Sim ya beautiful man. "It isn't how hard you can hit, but how hard you can GET hit and keep moving - that's how winning is done.". I gotta believe that if we reflect upon and learn something from each relapse, it definitely isn't a wasted effort. If everyone could quit on their first attempt none of us would be on here.
 
kickitnow said:
Sim ya beautiful man. "It isn't how hard you can hit, but how hard you can GET hit and keep moving - that's how winning is done.". I gotta believe that if we reflect upon and learn something from each relapse, it definitely isn't a wasted effort. If everyone could quit on their first attempt none of us would be on here.
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Amen.
 
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