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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Suboxone strengths exposed

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321bupe321

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Oct 10, 2016
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Well I just came across something extremely interesting, you'll think so too if on suboxone. Ive been on it in the past, the old stop sign 8/2's. I just got back on the strips a month ago and have been going insane as they have barely been having any effect whatsoever. I've been swearing up and down something was wrong with these strips as I pay big bucks for the visits and scripts. Even filed a cimplaint with the FDA. Well today an NDC code search gave a hell of a revelation.
Suboxone strips, despite what theyre labeled actually come as follows (and Dr.s & pharmacists probably won't like this but who are they to lie to patients in my book).
If the 4 different labeled strength, each actually comes as 2 strengths. Oh and the naloxone, only comes as 1mg in EVERY STRIP weather it matters or not. Each of the 4 *labeled strengths with their 2 different potential dosages have the same exact labeling and packaging including NDC code.
The 2/0.5 actually come as either 2/1 or 0.5/1. The 4/1 actually come as 4/1 or1/1. The 8/2 actually come as 8/1 or 2/1. The 12/3 that i was just raised to because the 2/1's i was getting and being told were 8/2 werent doing anything and still in withdrawal,actually come as 12/1 or 3/1. The latter of which I'm getting now being told its 12/3 as my asshole Dr fetd irritated when I tell him its nit working. Here's the source:

12496-1202-3 | Suboxone | buprenorphine hydrochloride, naloxone hydrochloride | FILM, SOLUBLE | 2 mg/1, .5 mg/1
NDC Package Code: 12496-1202-3
Product NDC: 12496-1202
Labeler Name: Indivior Inc.
Proprietary Name: Suboxone
Nonproprietary Name: buprenorphine hydrochloride, naloxone hydrochloride
Substance Name: BUPRENORPHINE HYDROCHLORIDE; NALOXONE HYDROCHLORIDE
Product Type Name: HUMAN PRESCRIPTION DRUG
Start Marketing Date: 09-13-2010
End Marketing Date: N/A
Market Category: NDA
Application Number: NDA022410
Package Description: 30 POUCH in 1 CARTON (12496-1202-3) > 1 FILM, SOLUBLE in 1 POUCH (12496-1202-1)
Pharm Class: Partial Opioid Agonist [EPC],Partial Opioid Agonists [MoA],Opioid Antagonist [EPC],Opioid Antagonists [MoA]
DEA: CIII

12496-1204-3 | Suboxone | buprenorphine hydrochloride, naloxone hydrochloride | FILM, SOLUBLE | 4 mg/1, 1 mg/1
NDC Package Code: 12496-1204-3
Product NDC: 12496-1204
Labeler Name: Indivior Inc.
Proprietary Name: Suboxone
Nonproprietary Name: buprenorphine hydrochloride, naloxone hydrochloride
Substance Name: BUPRENORPHINE HYDROCHLORIDE; NALOXONE HYDROCHLORIDE
Product Type Name: HUMAN PRESCRIPTION DRUG
Start Marketing Date: 08-24-2012
End Marketing Date: N/A
Market Category: NDA
Application Number: NDA022410
Package Description: 30 POUCH in 1 CARTON (12496-1204-3) > 1 FILM, SOLUBLE in 1 POUCH (12496-1204-1)
Pharm Class: Partial Opioid Agonist [EPC],Partial Opioid Agonists [MoA],Opioid Antagonist [EPC],Opioid Antagonists [MoA]

12496-1208-3 | Suboxone | buprenorphine hydrochloride, naloxone hydrochloride | FILM, SOLUBLE | 8 mg/1, 2 mg/1
NDC Package Code: 12496-1208-3
Product NDC: 12496-1208
Labeler Name: Indivior Inc.
Proprietary Name: Suboxone
Nonproprietary Name: buprenorphine hydrochloride, naloxone hydrochloride
Substance Name: BUPRENORPHINE HYDROCHLORIDE; NALOXONE HYDROCHLORIDE
Product Type Name: HUMAN PRESCRIPTION DRUG
Start Marketing Date: 09-13-2010
End Marketing Date: N/A
Market Category: NDA
Application Number: NDA022410
Package Description: 30 POUCH in 1 CARTON (12496-1208-3) > 1 FILM, SOLUBLE in 1 POUCH (12496-1208-1)
Pharm Class: Partial Opioid Agonist [EPC],Partial Opioid Agonists [MoA],Opioid Antagonist [EPC],Opioid Antagonists [MoA]
DEA: CIII

12496-1212-3 | Suboxone | buprenorphine hydrochloride, naloxone hydrochloride | FILM, SOLUBLE | 12 mg/1, 3 mg/1
NDC Package Code: 12496-1212-3
Product NDC: 12496-1212
Labeler Name: Indivior Inc.
Proprietary Name: Suboxone
Nonproprietary Name: buprenorphine hydrochloride, naloxone hydrochloride
Substance Name: BUPRENORPHINE HYDROCHLORIDE; NALOXONE HYDROCHLORIDE
Product Type Name: HUMAN PRESCRIPTION DRUG
Start Marketing Date: 08-24-2012
End Marketing Date: N/A
Market Category: NDA
Application Number: NDA022410
Package Description: 30 POUCH in 1 CARTON (12496-1212-3) > 1 FILM, SOLUBLE in 1 POUCH (12496-1212-1)
Pharm Class: Partial Opioid Agonist [EPC],Partial Opioid Agonists [MoA],Opioid Antagonist [EPC],Opioid Antagonists [MoA]
DEA: CIII

12496-1212-3 | Suboxone | buprenorphine hydrochloride, naloxone hydrochloride | FILM, SOLUBLE | 12 mg/1, 3 mg/1
NDC Package Code: 12496-1212-3
Product NDC: 12496-1212
Labeler Name: Indivior Inc.
Proprietary Name: Suboxone
Nonproprietary Name: buprenorphine hydrochloride, naloxone hydrochloride
Substance Name: BUPRENORPHINE HYDROCHLORIDE; NALOXONE HYDROCHLORIDE
Product Type Name: HUMAN PRESCRIPTION DRUG
Start Marketing Date: 08-24-2012
End Marketing Date: N/A
Market Category: NDA
Application Number: NDA022410
Package Description: 30 POUCH in 1 CARTON (12496-1212-3) > 1 FILM, SOLUBLE in 1 POUCH (12496-1212-1)
Pharm Class: Partial Opioid Agonist [EPC],Partial Opioid Agonists [MoA],Opioid Antagonist [EPC],Opioid Antagonists [MoA]
DEA: CIII.

http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cder/ndc/dsp_searchresult.cfm
 
This carries some fairly serious implications and raises some important questions when it comes to big money pharmaceutical companies not to mention ethics. I know this is a harm reduction website as the moderators can find the appropriate spot for this. You just have to think for a minute to realize why this is wring and unethical. I'll leave petty false advertisement as one. Informed consent doctrine anyone?
I know suboxine has helped countless ppl and had me in the past but this time has only drained families wallets while leaving my problem unresolved and perpetuated daily. I feel a little more distrustful now as well to put it lightly. I won't even go into the methadone clinics liquid supposed 10mgs/ ml pink methadone.
 
Idk... that site may say that.. but I'm pretty sure, brand name suboxone strips are going to have the correct mg of each buprenorphine and naloxone.. now I wont lie, I hate the strips, and don't much care for suboxone period(the only decent ones, very similar to subutex, are the white tabs with the half moon on them) which is one reason I why I got on subutex.. and I know the subutex I take, is on point.. no issues with it whatsoever, and when I had the strips, right when they came out on the market, I immediately told my sub doc I hated them, and was switched back to the tabs, before they discontinued the old N8 tabs.. and made all suboxone tabs, generic.. all I know is I am glad I have subutex.. and the FDA, I doubt would actually let something that drastic slide, they have been known with generics, to allow 2mg more or 2mg less, to slide in certain drugs, like oxycodone for one.. so I have read... not sure if its actually true.. but I wouldn't be so paranoid.. and if you hate the strips, like myself, ask to switch to tabs, or subutex... they work better IME no matter what ROA you use, I IV my 'tex, for the %100 BA and my addiction to the needle... don't recommend it though, its made me much more addicted to bupe than I used to be.
 
Wow this is insightful and in my experience makes perfect sense, I never have had the tabs / pills but the 8/2 strips were garbage to me for all purposes. I absolutely hated them and they barely touched me. This seems like it might be true to me.
 
Threads like this pop up every once in a while. I'm not calling anyone stupid, but these are nothing more than conspiracy theories in almost every instance. The pharmaceutical industry is heavily regulated by the government. Testing, manufacturing, distribution, quality control etc. is all tightly controlled. When dealing with controlled substances, yet another facet of oversight comes into play in the form of the DEA. Any formulation of medication that contains a controlled substance is going to be further vetted by them to determine that the drug is indeed what it claims to be and in the proper amounts.

People often cry wolf regarding generic medications. I'm not saying it's impossible, but when people say that a company like Pfizer or Teva is pumping out inert pills for spans of several years, with no one noticing or doing anything about it, just makes no sense, yet these threads have popped up countless times on Bluelight and on other forums. Accidents do happen and mistakes can be made, but in the field of Pharma, mistakes are rare.

I think people just let their heads run riot and convince themselves that their pills are fake. Either they're in withdrawal and suffering, convinced that their Codeine is fake because they're still sick or have some vague emotional vendetta against the drug in question. Fake/bootleg/impure pharmaceuticals are a serious issue in other parts of the world, but not in the United States or the Western world in general.

The best policy is to assume that the pharmaceuticals that you receive are indeed what they're supposed to be. Again, anything can happen, but this isn't something worth worrying about at all.
 
Im pretty sure sublingual dosing has a 25-30% bioavailability... Maybe that's what they mean by soluble? How much gets absorbed on average? I am not absolutely positive as to what that second set of numbers is but I am sure it doesn't mean they are conspiring against bupe patients.

In Canada at least, generics and brand name drugs have to be 99.9% as potent as they claim to be, with the generics it is different in the states. They dont have the same regulations regarding generics but there is no reason why they would actually make them weaker.
 
Click on the link and type in any prescription drugs NDC. Its the FDA's national drug code registry. Its for identification of all prescription drugs. Note it says they do come as labeled except naloxone. Its makes perfect sence if you've tried the strips after being on the old stop sign shape pills. I think its simply a way for your doctor to mull addicts over on the 3,2,1,&.5 strengths. FDA NDC doesn't lie. Same website you use to post a complaint to the FDA.
 
Last edited:
Take a read here and all will become clear:

https://www.hipaaspace.com/Medical_Billing/Coding/National.Drug.Codes/12496-1204-3

Strength Number 4; 1 These are the strength values (to be used with units below) of each active ingredient, listed in the same order as the SubstanceName field above.
Strength Unit mg/1; mg/1 These are the units to be used with the strength values above, listed in the same order as the SubstanceName and SubstanceNumber.

What the 4 mg/1, 1 mg/1 actually means is 1 dosage unit of 4mg buprenorphine, 1 dosage unit of 1mg naloxone
12 mg/1, 3 mg/1 means is 1 dosage unit of 12mg buprenorphine, 1 dosage unit of 3mg naloxone

That website is just badly laid out, you are getting exactly the dosage on the packet. Conspiracies dreamt up because of faulty logic and twisted "evidence" is exactly why Trump has many supporters
 
Thanks for clarification. I hope that this is the end of this conspiracy for a few people. I used to peruse suboxone groups of facebook and this conspiracy would be thrown around a lot. Not only is it illegal but what would be the incentive? What could possibly be the motive? I can't think of any.
 
I never noticed any difference between the pills and strips personally.
 
Screw the strips... for real! Even when i took them sublingually, as they are supposed to be taken, yet only have a 34% BA... I still preferred the tablets... I always truly felt like i wasn't placing the strips perfectly under my tongue each time i took them, probably due to my severe anxiety that wasn't being treated at the time these came out... but i was only on them, the first time they hit the market, for 1 month, then asked my doc to please switch me back to the tabs.. then i went back on the tabs, and noticed, again, they felt much better to me, and i always felt like i was able to place them perfectly under my tongue... then I started doing some research and found out that you could get a much better BA from other ROAs, other than sublingual. I tried sniffing, like 1mg, and i was very impressed, it felt so much different and i never went back to sublingual again... Plugging i will again say, was probably the best all around method IME to use suboxone/subutex/zubsolv etc. because it is very similar to the effects of IVing it.. I have never tried this with the strips, but i know for a fact all the different generic suboxone i tried this way worked wonderful.. by the time i switched to subutex, i had already been slamming my subs, so i only plugged subutex a few times, and the first time was absolutely incredible.. almost better than IV somehow! Felt as strong, or actually even stronger than doing oxycodone.. i actually got a rush the first time i plugged tex, and was nodding uncontrollably for about 15 mins.. it was very strong, that one time, then it wasn't AS strong, but still was the next best to IV... So I will stress this again, if sublingual doesn't work well enough for you with any type of buprenorphine, then try plugging it! don't just give up, and relapse, which is what kept happening to me, until i found a way to take subs and actually enjoy them! Keep experimenting with them and different ROAs, plugging being the safest, and also one of the strongest.. best ROA all around, IV is too risky, even though it is the strongest ROA.. never do it, plug it. sniff it, if you must.. only if sub'l doesn't work, i only am posting this, to tell people how beneficial subs can be to someone like me, with a ridiculously bad opiate addiction, and to not give up if taking the strips under your tongue isn't enough to take away your cravings to use full agonists, until i tried a different ROA I hated subs.. now I actually prefer them, over full agonists, not exactly for the feeling, but for the fact that they feel pretty great to me(not like shooting dope or anything!) and also keep me away from heroin, and other opioids, which can easily cause an OD, and subs rarely do.. plus they are cheaper(not the strips, with no insurance, fucking stupid expensive, go with generic tabs, better yet subutex generics, they are the cheapest w/o insurance), and you can legally obtain them so easily, for most sub clinics in the US anyways.. or where i live, just fail a UA for opiates or oxy, and your good to go! that simple..
 
Keif' Richards said:
Threads like this pop up every once in a while. I'm not calling anyone stupid, but these are nothing more than conspiracy theories in almost every instance. The pharmaceutical industry is heavily regulated by the government. Testing, manufacturing, distribution, quality control etc. is all tightly controlled. When dealing with controlled substances, yet another facet of oversight comes into play in the form of the DEA. Any formulation of medication that contains a controlled substance is going to be further vetted by them to determine that the drug is indeed what it claims to be and in the proper amounts.

People often cry wolf regarding generic medications. I'm not saying it's impossible, but when people say that a company like Pfizer or Teva is pumping out inert pills for spans of several years, with no one noticing or doing anything about it, just makes no sense, yet these threads have popped up countless times on Bluelight and on other forums. Accidents do happen and mistakes can be made, but in the field of Pharma, mistakes are rare.

I think people just let their heads run riot and convince themselves that their pills are fake. Either they're in withdrawal and suffering, convinced that their Codeine is fake because they're still sick or have some vague emotional vendetta against the drug in question. Fake/bootleg/impure pharmaceuticals are a serious issue in other parts of the world, but not in the United States or the Western world in general.

The best policy is to assume that the pharmaceuticals that you receive are indeed what they're supposed to be. Again, anything can happen, but this isn't something worth worrying about at all.
Click to expand...

This.

They have a 10% margin of error with the active ingredient, and they get tested often.
 
I don't see why the naloxone is important, personally dislike naloxone and have adverse effects thus refusing strips.

I don't blindly believe some shit copied and pasted online.

That being said the end consumer is always screwed over and so are the poor and afflicted as rather low on the totem pole.

My advice to OP is tell your dr what you want or find a new one.

I thought about things and be like damn that don't seem right but why waste time trying to prove it and why let this crap affect me? Answer is simple.
 
^ The Naloxone is important as folklore as much as it's physical effects. People who use are fairly afraid of it and the manufacturers know this. People with experience know it's not that effective but those that don't are more likely to not shoot it out of fear of PWD. The Doctors and manufacturers are counting on this fear to keep the product from being abused but it only took a few curious IV'ers to call their bluff.
 
But you don't get withdrawals from taking opiates on top of strips if the bupe is in your system.

It is bupe that causes pwds. Naxalone sure will throw you in wd if you use it to overturn an od, well someone else administers it and the point is for whoever overdosed to not die. That being said I have shot up after being administered narcan with no pwds.

So yeah I never get why doctors would act like you can't take opiates on strips or you will get sick.

OK back to topic at hand. I don't like naxalone in bupe, it gives me an actual headache among other adverse affects so the less the better IMO.

It is the bupe that causes pwds when strips are taken too early into wd.

Does it just cover doctors assess or something with the whole lie that you can't shoot or use with strips cuz you can. I know you can shoot up on strips, shoot strips for that matter, and take opiates once the bupe is in you so you can't shoot up and then take a strip unless...
 
davestate said:
Take a read here and all will become clear:

https://www.hipaaspace.com/Medical_Billing/Coding/National.Drug.Codes/12496-1204-3

Strength Number 4; 1 These are the strength values (to be used with units below) of each active ingredient, listed in the same order as the SubstanceName field above.
Strength Unit mg/1; mg/1 These are the units to be used with the strength values above, listed in the same order as the SubstanceName and SubstanceNumber.

What the 4 mg/1, 1 mg/1 actually means is 1 dosage unit of 4mg buprenorphine, 1 dosage unit of 1mg naloxone
12 mg/1, 3 mg/1 means is 1 dosage unit of 12mg buprenorphine, 1 dosage unit of 3mg naloxone

That website is just badly laid out, you are getting exactly the dosage on the packet. Conspiracies dreamt up because of faulty logic and twisted "evidence" is exactly why Trump has many supporters
Click to expand...
This. Was pretty obvious they meant 4mg(bupe)/strip 1mg(nalaxone)/strip. And etc.
 
^
^
Addiction Doc's will use folklore, fear and superstition to try and prevent their patients from relapse or at least a better chance at getting sober by stating the Naloxone will prevent all attempts at abuse. Honestly you can't blame them as it's their job but users that are determined will get to the truth. SUbs are far from bulletproof. Even if it's the bupe that's more detering than the naloxone.
The reality that Subs can be just as addicting ,long term, is a fact that is sometimes conveniently left out of the discussion. I suppose that is because subs are viewed as a lesser evil, much like methadone decades ago. And as long as you are on them the Doc's get paid... Apologies if I'm just reiterating my last post.

^
Agreed, more of a misinterpretation than a conspiracy theory.
 
I am gonna add that subs are nasty to come off. It took me a month with the aid of Vicodin to kick off and it was rough.

Honestly it set me back but it does get you up on your feet for a bit and you seem sober but it's just a new less rewarding addiction and in my personal experience a shitty maintenance drug which is rx'd in way to high doses.

I have a huge habit at time and after 36 hours I can take 2 mgs and be fine, just takes a while to let it kick in.

If you are getting paranoid it's probably your meds or lack thereof. Getting clean is a rough awakening and all sorts of strange things run through your mind.
 
I've had both the tablets and the strips and haven't noticed much of a difference. I would prefer the tablets, but at the time the strips had just came out, and they had coupons for it. I was paying cash for everything, so it was the logical choice. Anyway if you want to increase your buccal bio-availability of your subs get some of those breath mint strips at the counter of the grocery stores and suck on one of those with it. How do you think the Zubsolv pills work. It's ethanol. It's like sucking on a Fentanyl patch. Your supposed to suck on it with alcohol, which does essentially the same thing.
 
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