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Tapering Benzo withdrawal: Losing my mind

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10YearsGone said:
Indeed. Im now a seizure risk due to having seizures during the 2 heroin/morphine detoxes. Why I had them is a mystery. Don't drink and rarely take benzos- though I took 20mg of Valium today. Im on day 7 of not using dope.

I don't even feel the valium. And cj--subs didn't bring me much relief and gave me splitting headaches. Im headache prone though. Ive had chronic cluster headaches for years.

Thankyou so much for your help w answering my questions w the subs. Hope you're well. <3
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Its probably the naloxone causing the headaches. If you can get your doctor to write subutex you might get relief. But if sub isn't holding you then its time for methadone. Cause I promise it will hold you. I played sub game for 5 years and never got any better 2 years on methadone and my lifes improved drastically. I never crave opiates. You could do a shot of heroin in front of me and I wouldn't feel any craving. Its like magic. Now the needle fixation is a whole other story.

Just my experience.

Oh yeah one trick you could try with the sub is to hold it in your mouth 1o min without swallowing it then spit it out. Naloxone is absorbed in the stomach not under the tongue like bupe.
 
Yes, the naloxone in Suboxone is well known for creating headaches in some individuals. Subutex, or anything with just buprenorphine, can eliminate this issue. A small percentage of the populate seem to get headaches from the buprenorphine alone, in which case something like kratom or methadone would be the better option. Try a buprenorphine only formulate first to find out though.
 
cj said:
Its probably the naloxone causing the headaches. If you can get your doctor to write subutex you might get relief. But if sub isn't holding you then its time for methadone. Cause I promise it will hold you. I played sub game for 5 years and never got any better 2 years on methadone and my lifes improved drastically. I never crave opiates. You could do a shot of heroin in front of me and I wouldn't feel any craving. Its like magic. Now the needle fixation is a whole other story.

Just my experience.

Oh yeah one trick you could try with the sub is to hold it in your mouth 1o min without swallowing it then spit it out. Naloxone is absorbed in the stomach not under the tongue like bupe.
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I remember being offered (free) heroin once upon a time, while I was on suboxone, and I turned it down, zero interest. :) It's a good feeling being able to say no to it.
 
F'Loki said:
If people feel bad because you feel like you've made no progress with the benzo taper....Don't. I am at 10 months and relapsed right back to square 1.

March last year was on 30mg diazepam
Got down to 5mg by May.
Then life stuff happened (armed robbery whilst overseas working - AK-47s in the face not so fun for WDs!) and I just hovered around 5-10mg until October, where I got down to 2mg for a week. Sooooooooo close. Yet so so far.
By January 2nd this year me and my wife come back home on what was supposed to be a temporary holiday ..... Unlucky me, I end up getting kidney stones - I get hooked on my opiate pain meds, and go nuts with illicit diazepam and some xanax and k-pins thrown in for good measure...Then start buying some Heroin and Oxy on top of the dihydrocodeine prescribed meds. Now I have a dual addiction and outpatient rehab.

On the bright side I did not find the taper very painful at all, perhaps because I was travelling and working overseas it occupied me enough? Or it might've been because I was taking it slowly and had a GP with the Ashton Taper Schedule and who understood the need to take it slowly.

It's incredibly frustrating being stuck back at square one, but relapses happen. Learn from it, try not to dwell too much (though I need to take my advice more than most on this matter lol). I don't think looking through message boards online and reading about how benzos can permanently damage your brain and cause dementia etc is at all helpful, it'll just feed that WD anxiety and make you paranoid to the point many symptoms become psychosomatic.....Sure, they do cause damage, but so do A LOT of other substances. Even alcohol is toxic. And I am a firm believer your brain and body can regenerate: It's remarkable the kind of abuse our bodies and minds can actually take, and how they can regenerate. Meditation (no, you dont need to be a hippie or a religious person to practice meditation and reap the rewards), getting exercise (even if it's just walking or gardening) and a good diet will go a very long way to reversing a lot of the damage, I believe.

The real challenge is not relapsing and dealing with cravings - but remembering these cravings are temporary and if you just let them pass and find things you enjoy doing instead they seem to pass much quicker....But of course, I need to take my own advice here. lol
None of us are perfect.
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I really really need to take this advice to heart and the mind
 
cj said:
.not really. I have a feeling this one is going to end in tears but its so damn fun right now. I mean I don't know eventually I will have to stop its just a question of what circumstances it happens in.
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I highly recommend some sort of plan to detox or taper!! You cannot mess with benzos on and off once you are addicted or you will end up in a world of hurt as you have had a taste..I ran out last year and just tried to wing it nd damn that was a huge mistake..tapering isn't going to work for you so you better stock up on detox meds..as you know, you cannot stick to daily benzo regimen without disastrous consequences( or can you?) so you really have one viable option..cold turkey or quick taper using high gabapentin..
 
I'm not sure you understand very much about cj's situation. Right now he isn't working on tapering actively because he is focused on stabilizing at a relatively controlled dose and working on empowering himself in other areas of his life. Whether he decides to taper again in the future is entirely up to him of course.

I find is somewhat offense that you are telling him that tapering again at some point isn't going to work, although I understand you don't really understand his situation. Suggesting someone long dependent on significant doses of benzodiazepines "cold turkey" is probably some of the worst possible advice anyone could give. Such as is suggesting something like clonazepam be replaced by something like gabapentin.

With the understanding you only mean to be supportive, please don't take any of this post the wrong way. You just suggest some very, very unsound things that I cannot help but feel obliged to respond to. If you were talking about opioids what you're saying might hold some validity, but that isn't the case (and even then... hardly the best advice in this day and age).
 
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Tpd, your a real knowledgeable cat... Even more so, you're so incredible un fucking judgmental. Most of us respond to shit in a unintentional judgmental fashion and you always come along to say the right stuff. I respect that.

You da man! Just saying...
 
Compliments will get you everywhere my friend ;)

Iono, what can I say, I'm making efforts to position myself to work more in the mental health industry and harm reduction field IRL again. It's kind of a prerequisite.

The FUNNY thing however is how incredibly hard I can so easily still be on myself. But, it is just the like the rest of us. I need to remind myself of that sometimes - perhaps we all do occasionally ;)
 
I'm not quitting cold turkey that's for Dann sure. This has been my worst month far as running out early but I think I have a solid backup plan.
It
 
belfort said:
I highly recommend some sort of plan to detox or taper!! You cannot mess with benzos on and off once you are addicted or you will end up in a world of hurt as you have had a taste..I ran out last year and just tried to wing it nd damn that was a huge mistake..tapering isn't going to work for you so you better stock up on detox meds..as you know, you cannot stick to daily benzo regimen without disastrous consequences( or can you?) so you really have one viable option..cold turkey or quick taper using high gabapentin..
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Better to face the music now versus later, I can see that. Tapering always works or helps in the very least, but some people just can't do it on their own.

toothpastedog said:
I find is somewhat offense that you are telling him that tapering again at some point isn't going to work, although I understand you don't really understand his situation.
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I think he's just trying to share his experience in an understandable way. Tapering always works but isn't always possible as some individuals truly can't control their intake, and that is a valid point to bring up. I was almost unable/unwilling to taper much below a certain level with buprenorphine myself.

cj said:
I'm not quitting cold turkey that's for Dann sure. This has been my worst month far as running out early but I think I have a solid backup plan.
It
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I've known others who can't taper with benzos either, and would run through their entire month script in anywhere from one to three days. Please be careful not to allow your situation to gravitate toward that.
 
Nah I'm running through it bout a week early normally 10 days this month due being deathly I'll with flu and using them to feel better. But I do know what your saying. If I can't make it work next monthe reasonably well then I'm gonna start a slow taper.
 
cj said:
Nah I'm running through it bout a week early normally 10 days this month due being deathly I'll with flu and using them to feel better. But I do know what your saying. If I can't make it work next monthe reasonably well then I'm gonna start a slow taper.
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Glad to hear that man. :) Hope you feel better soon.
 
I managed to ONLY run out 5 days early. 5 days may as well be 5 months though. I got a doc appointment in 4 hours. I just took my last .25 of kpin to stop the shakes. I may have some whisky in an hour or two so I can drive without siezing. It's true what they say about seizures having number one makes you more prone to having number two.

I feel backed into a corner.
 
Alcohol can make you more likely to experience a seizure, and I'm sure you know driving under the influence of alcohol is a bad idea. Hope you can get to your appointment safely.
 
cj-

Just sending you a hug -cause I need one and you do too.

Im in a world of shit w/o getting into it- just believe me I am.

And seriously ~ One of my best friends totaled their car yesterday from "falling asleep" at the wheel. He's on methadone and klonopin. He's trying to get his meth dose right-it makes him really drowsy.

By grace of God-noone was hurt. Its really a miracle. Ive been warning him that it was a matter of time until this ~or worse ~was going to happen.

Please please be careful. There's no way someone can drive you to the appt? Good luck w the appt as well. Jesus. Be careful cj.
 
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I skipped the whisky. Made it to the appt fine. Here's hoping for a good result. I never know the right way to play these situations. I don't wanna be over the top and ring the drug seeker bell but I gotta get a dose change to not have a siezure. Dudes a quack I may go aggressive. I'd rather die on my feet then die on my knees


Sounds like your friend is new to methadone or Changi g doses. I've been on the clinic 24 months now and get zero sedation after dosing. Even doubling my dose doesn't produce a nod. Once your tolerant it takes care of itself.
 
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Yep-I know exactly what you mean about not knowing how to play it---I went through it thousands of times. And the relief upon walking out the door w Rxs. Like "Phew. Mission accomplished...until the next one. "

Yeah cj-my friend was clean for years-and shockingly started messing w pills and quickly went to shooting dope over a period of 10mos. Yeah- his reaction to methadone is strange to me as well. I myself was on methadone for about 5yrs and I never felt anything from it myself.

Im glad you're safe. Did it work out w the Dr ? Hope so. <3
 
It didn't go great but it all worked out in the end so I'm safe and medicated. Stressful as fuck though.
 
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