Recovery 16 years oxy user working up plan to get off for good please help have questions

[VastEmpty]

^ holy crap I think a couple subs would be heads and tails above Kratom. Although, Kratom is a life saver. I would still rather go with the subs. Mostly because of their long half life. I would be curious to see what others think though, as I have no direct experience with subs or any maintenance drug. My problem was always that I had no access to subs, but in terms of a quick taper - they seem to be the gold standard.

- VE

 

[the last dose]

^ holy crap I think a couple subs would be heads and tails above Kratom. Although, Kratom is a life saver. I would still rather go with the subs. Mostly because of their long half life. I would be curious to see what others think though, as I have no direct experience with subs or any maintenance drug. My problem was always that I had no access to subs, but in terms of a quick taper - they seem to be the gold standard.

- VE

Hey VE Really so going down to a low dose of roxy 30 to 45mgs a day then jumping to subs for a couple days is better than jumping to kratom i always thought subs had a long halflife and that would make the following withdrawls last longer ?

 

[VastEmpty]

I thought that too, for awhile, but I think if you take it at a low enough dose then it actually really helps as a quick taper. The problem is I'm not sure, so I was hoping someone else would chime in.

Where are all of the experts? Toothpastedog, we need you!!

- VE

 

[the last dose]

I thought that too, for awhile, but I think if you take it at a low enough dose then it actually really helps as a quick taper. The problem is I'm not sure, so I was hoping someone else would chime in.

Where are all of the experts? Toothpastedog, we need you!!

- VE

thanks VE

 

[I cup]

I had ahold of 2)8mg subs I was going to use , but was iffy like you are on how the long 1/2 life would play out w/ w/ds ..... Finally convinced myself there may be something to the kratom I'd been hearing about and finally gave it a shot - so, I ended up not using the subs bc of how well the kratom worked for me ..... Idk , subs always scared me , I know how jacked up methadone had me trying to get thru ( 2weeks straight use , I felt that shit for a month - yuck )
If you aren't thinking kratom will help enough , maybe try like 2mg for a day or 2 , then 1mg for a day or 2 then kratom ?
I do believe either way you are going to be relieved when you do jump ..... After all the countless hours/days worrying about it , it wasn't 1/4 as bad as I was mentally sweating it - the dark clouds aren't so close when you get up close !!

Keepit up chief !!! What's your next step with your cut down ?

 

[the last dose]

I had ahold of 2)8mg subs I was going to use , but was iffy like you are on how the long 1/2 life would play out w/ w/ds ..... Finally convinced myself there may be something to the kratom I'd been hearing about and finally gave it a shot - so, I ended up not using the subs bc of how well the kratom worked for me ..... Idk , subs always scared me , I know how jacked up methadone had me trying to get thru ( 2weeks straight use , I felt that shit for a month - yuck )
If you aren't thinking kratom will help enough , maybe try like 2mg for a day or 2 , then 1mg for a day or 2 then kratom ?
I do believe either way you are going to be relieved when you do jump ..... After all the countless hours/days worrying about it , it wasn't 1/4 as bad as I was mentally sweating it - the dark clouds aren't so close when you get up close !!

Keepit up chief !!! What's your next step with your cut down ?

Thanks brotha only reason im asking is seems theres something called roberts plan out there only thing i dont like about it is how long your on subs for (longer than im willing to take a chance with) But ive read some posts of starting with 2 mg subs twice a day next day going to 1.5 morning then 1 mg night dose then next day cutting in half then one more day single .75mg dose thats it, with minimal wds i already have kratom ready but this quick sub plan keeps you from gettin slammed with sub withdrawls. Maybe day four use kratom for a couple days only cause even tho my dose now is under 45mgs roxy whole day the opiate withdrawl gods want a big peice of my ass after going almost 17 years without ever having to goin into full withdrawls you might say i was lucky funny i dont feel lucky!

 

[I cup]

my dose now is under 45mgs roxy whole day

Check you out chief !!!
Be proud man , see how far you've came w/ the mindset to do it ? Keep on track and , with due time , keep baby stepping that down without getting sick - I wanna say my last few days I took like 2) 5 mg over the day and realized they were pointless so I just stepped off - after being hi as possible every day for 10 yrs. - you really can cut the physical symptoms down to almost 0 tapering down like you are
; ) you are kicking ass man !!!

 

[the last dose]

Check you out chief !!!
Be proud man , see how far you've came w/ the mindset to do it ? Keep on track and , with due time , keep baby stepping that down without getting sick - I wanna say my last few days I took like 2) 5 mg over the day and realized they were pointless so I just stepped off - after being hi as possible every day for 10 yrs. - you really can cut the physical symptoms down to almost 0 tapering down like you are
; ) you are kicking ass man !!!

thanks bro i was just under 45mgs by a couple maybe like 41 mgs hard to figure excactly cause i cut the 15 in half then again on some of my pills but thanks for the support. I have to admit i think i waited to long to jump cause emotionally im starting to falter this taper is finally kicking my fucking ass ive been only getting a couple hours sleep every night. And support around my house is ok but i dont think my wife really gets this so thats bringing me down some i wanted to keep this from my 17 year old son but last night i had a talk with him and im so proud of him for what he said to me anyways he understands and is there for me but i wont lean on him hes just a senior in high school. This whole deal has me more emotional than i have been in my whole life and i dont like it, i read your bio you have two kids like me im older than you but i do relate to your experiences and appreciate the help. So far with plenty meds put aside i have not given in hopefully wont but need to jump soon, when i experiment with my kratom it does hold me over a dose i get a warm feeling and like im looking thru foggy goggles a little is that normal and lets just say i fail and cant get off kratom right away whats it like to stay on it longer just the fact no more pain docs is heaven to me. Sorry bro for long post

 

[I cup]

thanks bro i was just under 45mgs by a couple maybe like 41 mgs hard to figure excactly cause i cut the 15 in half then again on some of my pills but thanks for the support. I have to admit i think i waited to long to jump cause emotionally im starting to falter this taper is finally kicking my fucking ass ive been only getting a couple hours sleep every night. And support around my house is ok but i dont think my wife really gets this so thats bringing me down some i wanted to keep this from my 17 year old son but last night i had a talk with him and im so proud of him for what he said to me anyways he understands and is there for me but i wont lean on him hes just a senior in high school. This whole deal has me more emotional than i have been in my whole life and i dont like it, i read your bio you have two kids like me im older than you but i do relate to your experiences and appreciate the help. So far with plenty meds put aside i have not given in hopefully wont but need to jump soon, when i experiment with my kratom it does hold me over a dose i get a warm feeling and like im looking thru foggy goggles a little is that normal and lets just say i fail and cant get off kratom right away whats it like to stay on it longer just the fact no more pain docs is heaven to me. Sorry bro for long post

Well , you're gonna jump one way or another ; )
The emotional rollercoaster took a lot to cope with , you're just sooo not use to it and then bam , there it is y'know ...
I've focused a lot of it on my wife , always had a wonderful marriage - but she's been getting spoiled lately , I guess not being numb to it all you realize the things that mean the most to you - I guess I'm saying I've found the key is trying to focus as much of it as you can on things that matter and not let them run wild ..... That and lots of quiet walks , going to the woods or down by the river ....y'know what I'm saying ; )
Kratom has helped me stay positive , and the little bitty buzz just enough to get thru the rollercoaster ......I guess I've been taking daily for about 6 mos. now , and switching strains keeps it fresh and working - I think I'm gong to start slowly cutting it down soon , I just know where I was 6 mos. ago and am so thankful to have found this crutch - it feels like it will be easy to come off of
You got this bud , and congrats on the step of breaking those 15's up now , you are doing the hard part now - just think of the future like x-mas and how good it's going to feel to actually mentally be there - keep your head in the game chief !!

 

[the last dose]

Well , you're gonna jump one way or another ; )
The emotional rollercoaster took a lot to cope with , you're just sooo not use to it and then bam , there it is y'know ...
I've focused a lot of it on my wife , always had a wonderful marriage - but she's been getting spoiled lately , I guess not being numb to it all you realize the things that mean the most to you - I guess I'm saying I've found the key is trying to focus as much of it as you can on things that matter and not let them run wild ..... That and lots of quiet walks , going to the woods or down by the river ....y'know what I'm saying ; )
Kratom has helped me stay positive , and the little bitty buzz just enough to get thru the rollercoaster ......I guess I've been taking daily for about 6 mos. now , and switching strains keeps it fresh and working - I think I'm gong to start slowly cutting it down soon , I just know where I was 6 mos. ago and am so thankful to have found this crutch - it feels like it will be easy to come off of
You got this bud , and congrats on the step of breaking those 15's up now , you are doing the hard part now - just think of the future like x-mas and how good it's going to feel to actually mentally be there - keep your head in the game chief !!

How have you been doing on kratom has your dose been the same and how many times a day do you use kratom if you dont mind me asking those questions. I know what you mean though when you say you like where your at now compared to 6 months ago, i would be happy as hell just to leave behind the monthly pain man appt (not that i could go back after being discharged) never knowing what kind of bs they were gonna hit me with next. And everytime i turn on the tv and see on the news somebody driving a car through a pharmacy door and emptying out every ops they had i cringed cause over the last couple years there was more and more open seats in the waiting room i could feel the end coming regardless of my back problems, they made their money and at the end i would go and be the only person in the waiting room. Bad back or not im tired of that shit if i get through i deal with my back somehow. Im trying to stay positive but lately thats not so easy, i think im gonna cap out around 15mgs roxy three times a day im too beaten up to go lower, it does seem a 5 or 6 grams of kratom hold me as good so we shall see thanks brotha i appreciate your help nothing like talking to people who wore the same shoes.

 

[I cup]

Well I'd think ( hopefully ) you'll even out and feel fine on that dose with a few more days .... When I was dropping , I was taking 4g. Am then 2-3g. Early afternoon .... When I jumped I bumped to 4g. 3x / day ( from what I recall ) - the last few mos. I've been taking more than I should allow , approx. 5g. 3x / day , sometimes another spoon (2.5g. ) mid morning ..... So approx 1/2 oz. a day , I'm slowly cutting it down now thou - it's like anything , less feels better - I felt better on 4g. / 2g. A day than I do now
It helped me the most during where you are now .... Kinda filling the void in the background while adjusting to smaller oxy doses

 

[the last dose]

Well I'd think ( hopefully ) you'll even out and feel fine on that dose with a few more days .... When I was dropping , I was taking 4g. Am then 2-3g. Early afternoon .... When I jumped I bumped to 4g. 3x / day ( from what I recall ) - the last few mos. I've been taking more than I should allow , approx. 5g. 3x / day , sometimes another spoon (2.5g. ) mid morning ..... So approx 1/2 oz. a day , I'm slowly cutting it down now thou - it's like anything , less feels better - I felt better on 4g. / 2g. A day than I do now
It helped me the most during where you are now .... Kinda filling the void in the background while adjusting to smaller oxy doses

Thanks man i appreciate the info, unfortunately yesterday i went to a new doc hes a general and also a addiction spec. i was there 3 hours what a joke i told him everything and showed him a small list of comfort meds i wanted clonidine gabapentin and muscle relaxer. So he comes back in with his plan he wants me starting tommorow to cut each 15 roxy dose in half (yeah right i wish) i explained im stuck and need to go slower, my blood pressure was checked there at 160/100 so he says he will give me the some comfort meds when i come back in two weeks this is after i explained im very worried about my blood pressure can i atleast get clonidine now so i dont drop dead from a heart attack because theres no way im gonna go lower with my bp that high, he says no when i come back he says he doesnt want me doctoring myself what a fucking joke its all about money most docs dont give a fuck about people. So i wanted to ask you when you did the full switch to kratom did you have any comfort meds to help or just kratom and how was the first 5 days were you able to work. thanks

 

[BushMaster]

Hey guys, I've had these issues for many years and have terrible lower back issues from crushed disks to sciatica. Needless to say I've been on and off meds for 15 or so years. I have tried subs to get off the opiates. It works but the WD is way worse coming off subs than any opiate I've ever abused. I'm back in meds and every now and again run out early so my pain doc gave me clonapin to ease the wd. It works really well for me. Congratulations on your decision to get off the meds. It's a tough road and I applause anyone that has the mud to stick to it.

 

[MisterNotSoClean]

I hemorrhaged $$$ out the ass for for 3 years seeing my doc... I probably bought him a nice car damn it. But in the end, I would have been spending more on the street...

Facelift is awesome btw

 

[VastEmpty]

Thanks man i appreciate the info, unfortunately yesterday i went to a new doc hes a general and also a addiction spec. i was there 3 hours what a joke i told him everything and showed him a small list of comfort meds i wanted clonidine gabapentin and muscle relaxer. So he comes back in with his plan he wants me starting tommorow to cut each 15 roxy dose in half (yeah right i wish) i explained im stuck and need to go slower, my blood pressure was checked there at 160/100 so he says he will give me the some comfort meds when i come back in two weeks this is after i explained im very worried about my blood pressure can i atleast get clonidine now so i dont drop dead from a heart attack because theres no way im gonna go lower with my bp that high, he says no when i come back he says he doesnt want me doctoring myself what a fucking joke its all about money most docs dont give a fuck about people. So i wanted to ask you when you did the full switch to kratom did you have any comfort meds to help or just kratom and how was the first 5 days were you able to work. thanks

LD -

Thats bullshit that he won't give you any Clonidine for two weeks. Also bs that he isn't listening to you saying that cutting your dose in half won't work either. Good doctors believe in the autonomy of the patient - this one either has some trust issues, or could give a fuck what you want. 160/100 is already in the borderline bad area for BP, and if you cut your dose in half, my guess is that'll go up a bit.

Personally, I did use comfort meds with Kratom when I switched. However, I was kind of using Kratom as a comfort med as well, not as a replacement. So if I took a dose of Kratom and felt good, then I took too much. My goal was just to survive the wds and be on the Kratom for as little time as possible. I think without the comfort meds, I would have had to taper with Kratom for much longer than I did. I think I only did 7 days total with diminishing doses after the first 3 days. This was mostly due to having a limited amount of time off work and needing to get the acute phase over with ASAP. Everyone's different, but my guess is that you would have to switch to the Kratom, then taper off of that if you don't have any comfort meds.

Sorry for the disappointment you had with your doctor today - but keep pushing forward. You are doing awesome!

- VE

 

[I cup]

That's crap !!
Yes , I'm rx'd gabapentin .....and had a few nights worth of Valium which really helped !!

 

[the last dose]

I hemorrhaged $$$ out the ass for for 3 years seeing my doc... I probably bought him a nice car damn it. But in the end, I would have been spending more on the street...

Facelift is awesome btw

No doubt MC over my early years on ops i supplemented some but not spending too much but my pain man. ive been at the last 15 years i without a doubt bought him one or two of his new mercedes or atleast my insurance did. Thanks ive been a big AIC fan since 1990 Facelift or Dirt two of my favorite all time albums, I grew up on Black Sabbath, Maiden, I was 18 or 19 years old when Ozzy made Blizzard of Ozz i can remember some of the best keg parties in the woods sitting around a bonfire with Crazy Train blasting. As much of a metal fan i was when i first heard AIC i loved them, back in the 80s i bought a Kramer flying V bass guitar was black with a fork chrome neck played a little bass for awhile wish i never sold it!. Ive seen so many concerts over the years Black Sabbath with Dio on Heaven and Hell album so dam good, Maiden many times ACDC first album after Bon Scott died Hells Bells was a great concert but i really would have loved to see Bon never got chance before he passed. I seen some of your youtube vids good stuff bro if thats u playing guitar dam good brotha! music is a great outlet for me when im in pain some good music is a pain eraser for me.

 

[the last dose]

LD -

Thats bullshit that he won't give you any Clonidine for two weeks. Also bs that he isn't listening to you saying that cutting your dose in half won't work either. Good doctors believe in the autonomy of the patient - this one either has some trust issues, or could give a fuck what you want. 160/100 is already in the borderline bad area for BP, and if you cut your dose in half, my guess is that'll go up a bit.

Personally, I did use comfort meds with Kratom when I switched. However, I was kind of using Kratom as a comfort med as well, not as a replacement. So if I took a dose of Kratom and felt good, then I took too much. My goal was just to survive the wds and be on the Kratom for as little time as possible. I think without the comfort meds, I would have had to taper with Kratom for much longer than I did. I think I only did 7 days total with diminishing doses after the first 3 days. This was mostly due to having a limited amount of time off work and needing to get the acute phase over with ASAP. Everyone's different, but my guess is that you would have to switch to the Kratom, then taper off of that if you don't have any comfort meds.

Sorry for the disappointment you had with your doctor today - but keep pushing forward. You are doing awesome!

- VE

Thanks VE Im in a tough situation cause i only have a week vaca left at work to use, I think this doc didnt like i knew what meds i needed was my first time there he wanted full control funny shit was he asked me if i needed more roxys i said no but that little dude popped up on my shoulder saying fuck yeah you do dummy lol. Im making a appt with my regular doc next week i have not seen in about 17 years, yeah i know but i lost my oldest brother to bone cancer back in 2001 and i didnt like how it went down with the docs i have a distrust for docs but im at the age i cant do my own internet herbal doctoring anymore. I really think i can switch to kratom at this point without any other meds if i was to stay on it till march when my company closes and i lose my job ive been at 15 years then i can do a slow ass taper while on unemployement, this wasnt my plan i wanted to have full supporting meds ready and go a week on kratom then take week vac and try to pull it off with supporting meds only. Not sure if i could have erased 18 years of ops in that amount of time anyhow im ready for another let down with my doc but atleast i have a backup plan five months on kratom then taper off. Crazy bad luck flowing in my house my wife job she had for years closed a year ago she does accounts receivable and been working thru and acency now that lied to her cause shes been at a company that sucks but was promised 50k a year when they finally take her on well its been almost 90 days and the agency dont remember saying 50k and they are stringing her out so shes probably quitting next week. And i really dont mind her quitting cause she told me the manager guys name is Len yells at some of the girls there and when she told him this week she had to leave and hour early thursday to take my son to doc appt and asked if she could come in an hour early he flipped said no she didnt wanna tell me cause she knows i'll go nuts on him talking nasty shit to women drives me fn nuts. sorry about life story thanks for listening

 

[the last dose]

That's crap !!
Yes , I'm rx'd gabapentin .....and had a few nights worth of Valium which really helped !!

tell me about it bro funny thing is i was on gabapentin a year ago at the pain man i was at for nerve pain in my feet didnt help much so after 8 months i didnt fill script no more i didnt want another posssible withdrawl from that. I do have a bunch of xans but i might be prescribing to your plan instead of a full detox staying on kratom for a while

 

[Chefbigguy]

I am a ten plus year opiate user. I'm on my second day of figuring out dosing of Kratom. So far no problems. We will see as the days pass. I'm a little affraiyof what will happen when the ban actually happens and I get stuck back into buying the other options.