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  • Trip Reports Moderator: Xorkoth

Phenibut - 10 Years Experience - A Comprehensive Long-Term Synopsis and Usage Guide

It's okay. The music enhancing effects are underrated especially since you have to go out of your way to listen to music for it to work.

It's a very useful drug for getting off other drugs like alcohol or opiates.
 
noone1 said:
The music enhancing effects are underrated especially since you have to go out of your way to listen to music for it to work.
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I don't understand this statement at all... how hard is it to turn on some music?? :) Anyway for me the main benefit is in playing music or doing any art really... it puts me in "the flow" so hard.
 
Xorkoth said:
I don't understand this statement at all... how hard is it to turn on some music?? :) Anyway for me the main benefit is in playing music or doing any art really... it puts me in "the flow" so hard.
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Not hard at all I was trying to convey how subtle phenibut is that's all. I forget I'm even using phenibut a lot of the time. Then I put my mp3 player on and I remember how awesome it is for music. Sometimes it doesn't feel like you are using anything at all where as I use a drug I expect certain things.
 
Ah yeah, very true. That's what I like about it. I feel sober but just augmented in a way where I tend to get really into things, I tend to be in a great mood, I tend to want to socialize I lot more and more easily, and I feel confident in myself. It's not like a high really, it's like an augmentation of sobriety. And I like that sort of thing.
 
I suffer from social phobia and I can't believe how effective phenibut is at totally killing it. wow, why is this drug being ignored on so many levels. Probably because it's Russian. I'm glad it's remaining in the shadows.
 
Very informative and helpful post, thanks Xorkoth.
I am a musician, or at least one of the people who hang around with musicians, you know drummers and your description of it's ability to enhance playing/listening to music is what really got me interested in this substance.

I am in the very early stages of experimenting with it and am following your recommendations regarding doseage.


One thing I have read about during my research on phenibut that you did not address is whether or not the ph level of the stomach has an effect on phenibut.
I observed that you dose first thing after waking up so obviously you dose on an empty stomach however I am wondering about your opinion regarding after doseing.


I have read that for phenibut to have a full effect it must be dosed on an empty stomach and that an acidic environment helps even further.

As I mentioned I am literally only just starting out with this stuff but had a reaction recently that may support the theory of acidity/alkalinity having an effect.

My first dose was 500mg on an empty stomach and I did not eat for around 4 hours after dosing and I got a great effect, everything your article lead me to expect.

Second dose one week later at 750mg taken on an empty stomach started well, I could feel it coming on just like the first time, however at around two and a half hours after dosing I drank a large smoothie made on soy milk which as I have since found out is around 7 on the ph scale, after drinking this my experience abruptly trailed of to the point that I started to feel the opposite of what I got the first time, I actually started to feel quite anxious and short tempered and lost all motivation to play music.

As I write this I am on my third experience, I went back to 500mg but this time as well as making sure I had an empty stomach I consumed a coke with my dose which is obviously a very acidic beverage.

I am currently three hours into this experience and it is going very well once again, I am about to start playing my drums and can't wait to do so.

Perhaps I am reading to much into it, however it was an extremely noticeable effect and the only thing that seems to explain my reaction was the change in the ph of my stomach.

Once again thanks for the great write up.
 
So I am confident I have answered my own question but it would still be good to hear the opinion of someone more experienced with phenibut.

I have read a lot regarding how the ph level of the stomach at the time of dosing can have a profound effect on phenibut absorbsion.

After my experience which I referred to in my previous post I have dosed at 750mg again today and again consumed my dose with a coke and have taken no food after dosing for several hours and am enjoying a great experience once again.
Definitely seems like it is important to dose on an empty stomach and not to consume anything that will raise the ph of the stomach to soon after dosing, at least this seems to be the case for me.
 
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Interesting. I usually take the bulk of my dose in the morning shortly after waking up, and I end up eating breakfast 1-2 hours after I take it. Then I take the rest of my dose in the early afternoon. So I guess it coincides with not having any or much food in the stomach. I get very consistent effects from it so I guess that supports your belief. :)
 
Thanks for posting this - I was just looking for a decent overview for a friend earlier today!
 
Sounds like phenibut has many of the same effects as GHB. Claude Rifat always said that sociabalising drugs (like GHB) are the true anti-depressants. It also seems to have the same small window between ideal effects and overdose, complicated by the supposedly near-instantaneous development of tolerance.

Have you ever tried using it rectally to reduce the speed of onset? Of course, you have to pH buffer it. I tried it once, using sodium bicarbonate to raise the pH. It worked well, but it took me so long to get the pH right for that one dose that it wasn't worth the trouble, and it still burned a little bit. I guess it would be possible to buffer the whole batch and dose volumetrically, but I never bothered.

I'm pretty much impervious to anxiety--almost to a fault--so phenibut hasn't really done much for me except as a sleep aid. For that, I use it occasionally in doses of 80 to ~140mg, but the slow onset makes it pretty useless unless I'm anticipating having difficulty sleeping hours in advance (such as when I've taken an phenethylamine psychedelic.) It's nice in that it produces easy, restful, natural-feeling sleep (even better than GHB) for a full night, and I don't get next day drowsiness. I think I tried it at 200 or 250mg once (edit: actually I checked, it was 655mg), and it cause a bit of nausea and next day drowsiness which eventually crested into a feeling of beatific hypomania on the comedown. I was surprised to have such strong effects from such a small dose, and the nausea and fog have provided me with the little impetus I've needed to steer clear of recreational doses of it.

I'm glad to have this info, as I have a friend suffering from -severe- acute anxiety, but is unwilling to use benzos after seeing their destructive effects on his old friends. He's trying the whole holistic shebang, but it might be good to have something for the next day or two. Unfortunately, it seems that while phenibut is spectacularly effective for social anxiety, I don't hear much that suggests it's good for generalised anxiety.
 
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I used to use it rectally. Problem is it burns. I have settled on oral as the best ROA.

That's cool you get effects at such a small dose... I wouldn't even feel 80-140mg... I don't think I ever would have.

I'd say phenibut is great for anxiety in general. It doesn't mask like a benzo, it's more like it makes you feel like everything is good. Probably the best anti-anxiety thing I've taken, but it takes quite a while to work and it doesn't shut off any thought processses, it just makes you feel good. I don't suffer from any sort of clinical anxiety either so it may be that it's not good for that, I really couldn't say.

But yeah, hypomania is exactly how I'd describe the effects.
 
Honestly, I wouldn't say that I get effects at 80-140mg, just that it's (often) therapeutically active for me at this low dose. Two hours after taking it, I find myself able to sleep, but I wake up the next day with no effects.

I checked my notes, and I was wrong about the dosage I took to get noticeable sociabalising effects - that turned out to be 655mg. So I'm overall still pretty sensitive, but that's more in line with other people's experiences.
 
Yes, small doses (~100mg) help me both fall asleep and stay asleep without producing much in the way of any other noticeable effects. When I dose for sleep, I make sure to take it about three hours before bedtime.

I've noticed with recreational doses I sleep very well that night (obviously) as well as the next night too as maybe there are still some tiny lingering effects. Then on the third night I find it noticeably more difficult to fall asleep... Like some kind of rebound insomnia.
 
Yeah recreational doses make me very sleepy at night when I lay down. Though if I don't lay down and close my eyes I don't get sleepy, unless I take too much in which case staying away is very difficult.
 
it was a good read because i've been trying to figure this drug out. I usually take it early evening so it will help me sleep by the time it kicks in.

if i take more than 1200mg, i have that nauseous felling of malaise all the next day. lower than that and I seem to avoid it, but sometimes its there anyways.

since i take at night, I get the euphoria the next morning when i wake up. I should try taking it in the morning sometime like you do and see how that goes.
 
I didn't get what all the fuss was about until I tried taking it in the morning. 5-6 hours after dosing is when it was best for me, so the times before I was always asleep by the point.
 
Took 2 grams out of desperation (for benzo withdrawals even though i'm tapering) a week ago and got a full 9 hours sleep and woke up feeling amazing. Found it took 3hours to kick in with an empty stomach. I took a herbal mix with it including St. John's Wort. Dunno if that made a difference. I then took it again on alternating nights and slept better both nights but not as good as that first night. Not sure if tolerance builds extremely rapidly or if it was because i mixed with st johns wort the first time. Possibly a bit of both.

I have decided not to take my last 2 grams as I do not want to risk it affecting my benzo withdrawal and taper, even though it doesn't appear to effect it at these 2 gram doses or bring on any withdrawals of it's own. I am not risking it. I know it supposedly only effects GABA-B and dopamine but the literature says it might effect GABA-A which is the receptor i've fucked up....So perhaps too big of a risk at the moment. Swapping one addiction with another is just a terrible thing to end up doing.
 
This is such an excellent read, Xorkoth! I had no knowledge of Phenibut prior to reading this post (other than seeing it listed on some bodybuilding sites).
This is such a perfectly written summary, well-structured, and addressed all my questions as it drew in my interest.

The "sweet spot" (or proper, personal dose) of Phenibut sounds like it provides the "feeling" I've been chasing through every single drug, my entire life. It almost sounds like the perfect "roll," without the uncomfortable amphetamine-like qualities. I have lived through a long-term dependence on opiates, which was spawned by the sense of "utter confidence" opiates allowed me, at first. It sounds like Phenibut can provide this in a much less intoxicating fashion, which is EXTREMELY appealing.

However, it is that supreme appeal that makes me feel a little hesitant to explore Phenibut. If it provides me with all the benefits/enhancements you experience, I don't see how I could ever let it go! Had you ever noticed Phenibut inducing some degree of self-knowledge (like a psychedelic), but a form of insight that lasts beyond the "high" (for lack of a better term), and informs your behavior / elevates your confidence, without Phenibut?

Also you mentioned how Phenibut may interact with various drugs - but what about good old marijuana?

Thanks!

Aaron Dank
 
Hey there, thanks. :) I would say that the only effect that phenibut has beyond its effects is of the same nature by which anything can have that effect. That is, by feeling a boost of self-confidence or social confidence or whatever, you have now felt that and are able to experience it and gain more confidence simply because of experiencing it. So then, ideally afterwards you would retain some benefit. That's really similar to how psychedelics work too really, it's like, if you get there, you've been there, so you can perhaps make use of that experience to inform your future perceptions. Phenibut has probably provided some of this for me, though I'll also say that when I was much younger alcohol actually helped me to become more socially confident in a permanent way too, so it's not a property unique to phenibut nor is phenibut really special in that regard. I would say psychedelics have provided me far more utility in terms of long-term benefits to my life experience. But like I said in the report, I do think phenibut could be a good candidate for a transparent, non-threatening psychotherapy tool to aid in opening up emotionally. Just like how MDMA is starting to be used for this, but less extreme. Through increased openness and focused effort, I think people could gain long-term benefits as a result of working through issues with the help of phenibut.

Phenibut definitely has a draw for me, but it is not in the same league as opiates. I will say I am reducing now and I am going to take a good break from it, as I am starting to feel some weird body pains and I have the feeling that years of every other day phenibut use without breaks are not good for your health. I think it's best used sparingly. Using it up to every other day for periods of time where it provides benefit seems great, but I have been using it for longer at a time than I should, I have been feeling recently.

So yeah there is some interaction with addictive personality stuff, but not even close to the same sort of level as opiates.

Phenibut reacts with marijuana the same as it does with basically everything... it just provides a base level of anxiolysis and euphoria, which the other drug then rests on top of. So marijuana's positive effects are more emphasized, paranoia and anxiety are a lot less likely, but it doesn't change the nature of the drug.
 
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