Lysergamides The Small & Handy 1-Bu-LSD (1B-LSD) Thread

[aced126]

6-BU-LAD is LSD with a butyl group substituted on the basic nitrogen, not the indole nitrogen. Just for everyone's information, 6-butyl-LSD has been synthesised, and it was about 10 times less potent than LSD in rat drug discrimination.

"Lysergamides Revisited": https://archives.drugabuse.gov/pdf/monographs/146.pdf

Generally 1-substitution will attenuate activity but indolic amides get hydrolysed much easier than normal amides.

 

[Solipsis]

No not call 1B-LSD that, but call BU-LAD 6-BU-LAD to avoid confusion about where substitutions are. Kinda makes sense. However not necessary since the -LAD series already refers to the 6-substituted homologue series. Only reason I said avoid confusion is because of the Bu analogues being discussed right around the same time now. Just keep an eye on it being an 1x-LSD or a LAD compound to make the distinction.

6-butyl is not expected to be potent at all and even ones that are supposed to be better than it already fall short of economic justification, but some of these are still made by some enthousiasts if we are to believe some rumors.

AL-LAD is apparently highly effective in rats, but it's not more of a potent psychedelic than LSD in humans. I'd definitely try other things first like isopropyl or isobutyl on the 6-position if it were up to me... t-butyl even if the reaction is doable... just seems like they have a better shot.

1-isopropionyl is not possible.

 

[Incunabula]

I'd definitely try other things first like isopropyl or isobutyl on the 6-position if it were up to me... t-butyl even if the reaction is doable... just seems like they have a better shot.

Absolutely But first give us PRO-LAD already!

1-OT-LSD sounds tasty too, if there's anything to the rumours. (which there might very well be, it just wouldn't be the first time preliminary reports of exotic compounds turned out to be nothing but bullshit and hot air)

 

[Hawk-o]

Bring on the Pro-Lad! They said 7 months ago it would be available in 6 months...so I am thinking any moment!

 

[Bigazznugz]

I would think cyp-lad would be one of the best 6 position lysergamines.
Regardless wherevere they go from now on they will become more and more exotic it seems.

 

[Solipsis]

CYP-LAD would undergo an intramolecular reaction I think... cyclopropylmethyl was tested in rats and found to be just about the worst one in the series.

 

[Bigazznugz]

CYP-LAD would undergo an intramolecular reaction I think... cyclopropylmethyl was tested in rats and found to be just about the worst one in the series.

Do you have a link for this info. Afaik cyclopropyl hasnt been tested yet.

 

[Solipsis]

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...utyryl-LSD?p=13747108&viewfull=1#post13747108 the cyclopropylmethyl is the CH2-c-C3H5 on page 55.

About cyclopropyl itself (so not cyclopropylmethyl) I was probably thinking of things like a 6-haloethyl not being possible or safe because it could react into an aziridine (or aziridinium?) like nitrogen mustard compounds. Aziridinium confused with cyclopropyl.
I guess has nothing to do with CYP-LAD, and cyclopropyl tryptamines and other cyclopropylamines exist and seem fine, so my bad (it's not exactly an intramolecular reaction as I thought - that would be the above). However I'd still be careful since they are still known to involve ring opening to free radicals. The dose of lysergamides would be low so toxicity may not be an issue too quickly but it might not be good for activity either..

Just look around for 'cyclopropylamine free radical' for plenty of info. Even tertiary ones can do this.

 

[white55]

Well, often butyl is futile but if 1P-LSD was acting as a prodrug then it may well work. I don't know much about the enzymes that attack these things.

the r6 butyl analogue of lsd is the one that would be weak (bu-lad, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BU-LAD )

this is the r1 sub which should be active (and probably feel similar to 1p/1a/lsd-25) and probably only slighly less potent than 1p or 1a lsd (ald-52) or lsd

at least that's what one would be able to predict from existing public info about lysergamide sar (modifying at r1 with groups similar to acetyl (aka the carbon closest to the r1 nitrogen has an oxygen bonded to it with a double bond) leads to substances which are either lsd prodrugs or active on their own but with similar effects as lsd or both.... exactly how far this works and how complex the groups you can use are is, as far as I'm aware not public knowledge, but i strongly suspect some not so public research exists that explores the subject further (think about 1p-lsd and 1p-eth-lad, do you think that only these two were made and then sold or do you think many more were made but haven't been released yet? i would bet on option 2 being right since flooding the market with a bunch of very similar lysergamides doesn't make much sense since a) it's more likely to result in some kind of blanket ban and not in specific substances being banned b) once you have the chemistry behind it figured out it does make sense to test as many of such substances as you can make using the similar synths c) each mass produced analog means that each is made in smaller batches which would be more expensive due to how economies of scale work (i assume that the total amount of lysergamides you can make and sell is limited by market size, lab capacity, access to precursors, the amount of money you have (lab capacity can be increased as can the access to precursors but both requires a large investment and i have no idea how large are we talking about, how much money the people behind this have and if it is even a smart move since you would also drop the price per ug (well if you want to sell them and not just store them in a freezer) and the amount currently made might well be some sort of local optimum and even if there is some higher optimum at a larger total amount of cheaper lysergamides being sold reaching it might be too expensive for the people (i wont be very specific here since for a bunch of reasons and will only say that this might well be true) behind these lysergamides))))... some such r1 subs might also produce compounds different from lsd since the groups might make the compounds inactive/unmetabolisable to lsd due to size/steric effects/... or they might make them more active by increasing absorbtion speed/blood-brain barrier penetration/...).... r6 subs on the other hand are the ones that have much more interesting effects on activity (just look at eth and al lad for proof) however the chemistry behind them is much harder which would make it a reasonable assumption that they haven't been explored nearly as much as r1 subs... r2/3 subs look like a dead end since the diethyl amide appears to be crucial for lysergamide magic (look at lsz) and since the chemistry behind them is also much harder than the chemistry behind r1 subs (nichols tried to make analogue of lsz with a 3 carbon ring but failed... although i have since seen some synths which might work... none have been tried so the question if they would work doesn't have a definitive answer right now and since lsz was a failure compared to every other lysergamide and nothing suggests that it's 3 carbon analogue would be any better it will probably take a very long time before they are tested.... if you are going to try to make hard to make lysergamides r6 subs look much more attractive since all of the ones that were released were very well received and are considered by many to be as good or better than lsd (i'd pick eth lad over lsd (more and prettier visuals, a friendlier headspace and no lack of depth) any time and while i love al lad i'd put it next to lsd not above it (i'm a sucker for pretty visuals and al-lad is definitely a winner (i'd hate to be forced to answer the question on which visuals are prettier al-lad's or eth-lad's.... i think al-lad is slightly prettier than eth-lad but eth-lad + ald-52/1p-lsd/lsd is even prettier... i wonder how is eth-lad + al-lad or al-lad + ald-52/1p-lsd/lsd or eth-lad + al-lad+ ald-52/1p-lsd/lsd ...) in the pretty visuals department, it's also definitely more euphoric/positive/fun/whatever you want to call it, but it does lack some depth which is desirable in some situations and undesirable in others the same goes for it's lower duration.... sadly more people get undesirable side effects from them as they do from lsd and not everyone )
you also have other possible lsd analogs (swapping the r1 nitrogen with an oxygen would likely lead to something active like it does with tryptamines (5-meo-dibf, 5-meo-bfe, ..) but the chemistry required to make them is not commercially viable and wont be for some time

and there's also ndtdi if you still consider that a lysergamide


i wont comment on 1-ortho-toluoyl-LSD and any other lysergamides which may or may not have been made beyond what i've posted above (although my refusal to comment might be comment enough)

 

[white55]

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...utyryl-LSD?p=13747108&viewfull=1#post13747108 the cyclopropylmethyl is the CH2-c-C3H5 on page 55.

About cyclopropyl itself (so not cyclopropylmethyl) I was probably thinking of things like a 6-haloethyl not being possible or safe because it could react into an aziridine (or aziridinium?) like nitrogen mustard compounds. Aziridinium confused with cyclopropyl.
I guess has nothing to do with CYP-LAD, and cyclopropyl tryptamines and other cyclopropylamines exist and seem fine, so my bad (it's not exactly an intramolecular reaction as I thought - that would be the above). However I'd still be careful since they are still known to involve ring opening to free radicals. The dose of lysergamides would be low so toxicity may not be an issue too quickly but it might not be good for activity either..

Just look around for 'cyclopropylamine free radical' for plenty of info. Even tertiary ones can do this.

flutoprazepam has a cyclopropylmethly and as a drug that has passed clinical trials one would assume it is relatively safe so cyclopropylmethly is probably not always toxic

 

[Solipsis]

Note the difference between cyclopropyl(amines) and cyclopropylmethyl(amines). The extra methylene spacer would make a big difference. Generally I'd expect it to be more stable thanks to it.

Allyls are also common (AL-LAD, 5-MeO-DALT etc), but vinyls don't work.. The difference again being the methylene spacer as a buffer for activation / reaction mechanisms, you might say. But idk about cyclopropyls really. Toxicity, instability, hard time to achieve the synth in the first place.. don't know, but there might be issues.

 

[white55]

Can't say you don't have a point, but there are pharma drugs with a cyclopropyl without a methylene too - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Cyclopropanes

Now I can't say that none of them aren't toxic, maybe they are just not as dangerous as the disease they are used to treat.

There's also McPT, EcPT and I think PcPT (methyl, cyclopropyl tryptamine, ethyl analog and propyl analog).

 

[uncle_bud]

1b-LSD / 1-butyr-LSD

This compound appeared on the market recently. All information is more than welcome. I drawn this molecule based on my limited chemistry skills. I would be more than happy if someone fluent in this sort of things could check it.

1-butyr-lysergic acid diethylamide

It differs from 1-propionyl-LSD (1p-LSD) by one additional carbon atom on the 1st position.

Sample that i received was sent to the lab for confirmation. This batch is pure white powder.

Results from reagent testing:

Marquis: brownish
Mandelin: green
Mecke: green - blue
Ehrlich: purple
Simons: no reaction
UPDATE: lab could not confirm that this sample is indeed 1b-LSD, so the upper information is not accurate. So far it looks like it's NDTDI.

What i find odd here is, that if my sample is indeed 1b-LSD, it doesn't follow the no immediate reaction with ehrlich "trend" that can be observed with 1p-LSD or ALD-52, where the substitution prevents the immediate formation of purple color with ehrlichl.

Source claims the dosage is around 1 - 2 mg. This is unconfirmed!!! It might as well be 50 ug


Any comments welcome!

 

[Bagseed]

the chemical structure looks right as far as I can tell. besides that I have nothing to add but I am looking forward to your results

 

[Solipsis]

I'm curious if anything is noticeably and reliably different about it compared to 1P or ALD, personally I doubt that anything but the kinetics is different and it seems slightly over the edge of being economically unviable if dosage is 1-2 mg...
making it pointless if this is true.
(With 1P and ALD, people do use them but at the same time I have yet to hear that they are really different from LSD. Usually if there are even slight differences people tend to anecdotally try and differentiate them which is doubtful. So to me, the lack of significant differences reported seems meaningful. On the other hand, the further we get removed from LSD by extending the 1 amide, the more the effects may actually become different just by dilation from the kinetics. Which I believe is the reason things like 4-AcO-DMT may produce particular effects. I may be wrong about that though, if the reason for that is 4-AcO-DMT being active itself undissociated, the same would not be true for 1-substituted LSD analogues which according to Nichols are not active themselves.)

Looks like you have quite a lot there... if it were an NBOMe nobody would bat an eye, but those aren't expensive to produce like lysergz.

 

[Bigazznugz]

Jeez that dose is high so its gotta be expensive if when it does pop up buy with those doses i doubt it. The precursor used could have yielded hundeds of hits of somthing stronger. But please report back let us know if high dose lysergamines are and good.

 

[uncle_bud]

Will do. First im waiting for the lab results. Hopefully i can run TLC on it tomorrow and also to see if it shines under UV.

For me personally i find ALD-52 different from LSD. The same with 4-AcO-DMT and mushrooms. OFC not major differences, but i would say they have a distinct effect; but like you said ... it wasn't a blind trial and so on. I haven't tried 1p-LSD so can't comment on that.

Also agree on the economic side, but hey, if there are people who are willing to sacrifice their precursors for research... i find that great and respect that.

Will let you know how it went!

 

[shunyata]

Well I tried to post this just a minute ago and it just dissipated so I'm gonna try one more time.

I received some of this a few months back. Tried up to 4mg oral and IM but nothing. Im guessing it decomposed while sitting at a hot warehouse at customs because they made me file a bunch of paperwork. Since then I've received a new shipment from the same supplier and while the first one was clearly grey almost bluish, the new stuff is almost completely white. Haven't had a chance to test it yet but I'll make another post when I do.

Here is a pic showing the two samples:

 

[Xorkoth]

Huh, interesting. Is the texture/granulation different between the batches? It looks like it but hard to tell. It also looks a lot different than other lysergamides I have seen, which have been in crystal form. Of course it could just be powderized. If I were you I'd find some way to determine for sure it's what it's claimed to be. Not sure if a testing lab would be able to tell or not though, don't they need a reference sample?

Strange that 1-butyr-LSD would be drastically less potent than 1-propionyl or 1-acetyl. But maybe not strange, I'm no expert in chemistry. Oh, just noticed you meant you've tried 4mg of the suspected decomposed sample, not the new white sample. It is odd it's gray.

Don't want to price discuss, but just saying, the white sample looks like a large amount, if you didn't spend a crap ton of money on it, I would be hard-pressed to believe this is actually an LSD analogue as to my knowledge all the lysergamides are very difficult to make, with expensive precursors; all of the other ones I've seen cost a tremendous amount of money by weight.

 

[Solipsis]

As always, appearance doesn't tell you much. Lysergamides can easily be grey although I'd expect more of a purple or brown tinge personally, it doesn't have to be a big impurity and I think it can come from degradation or from the synth (also during the synth there may be degradation).

Unfortunately tryptamines also can appear that way. Especially so dull grey as pictured.

A lab would kind of need a reference sample but could also piece together that it is very likely an LSD analogue maybe? But I doubt they would tell in such uncertainties.

UV fluorescence doesn't tell you that it is not a tryptamine.

No I don't think this is really economical to make, if it is 1B i would probably try to deacylate it into regular LSD to get a lot more bang for your buck - unless it's really a different trip that is worth it.