Why is it that Christians are so quick to judge Athiest/Agnostic individuals?

[ABeautifulMind]

I just got finished reading that "Smug Athiest" thread, and while I'm now sitting here with a headache, it got me thinking about something I've found myself pondering before. Why is it that so many Christians, (the majority, in my experience) immediately attack non-thiests for their beliefs, or lack thereof? I'm somewhere between Athiest and Agnostic, although I was raised Catholic for 16 years. I honestly do not care what anyone believes in. I don't care. The shits? They're not given. Nowhere, are there any shits of mine to be found. If you make the choice; or are born into it, to believe in a God/s, then who am I, or anyone for that matter, to tell you that you're wrong? I will never judge an individual just because they believe there is an invisible, omnipotent, supreme creator that lives in the sky. Do I share that belief? Hell no. But if it gives you something to hold onto, then that's wonderful. All I care about is that you're a good human being, who doesn't wrong others. That's literally all that matters - whether or not you are a genuinely good person. NOW, here's where Christians bother me. It seems like 80+% of Christians who learn about my lack of belief, immediately jump to telling me that I'm wrong - HOW I'm wrong, and why I should turn to God before it's too late. I'm accused of being some "faithless sinner" who needs to find Jesus. They'll drone on, in such absurd blind certainty, about this God, and how he/she is real, and all the substantial "evidence" directly pointing to this God, and how ludicrous of a notion it is that one could ever reject the invisible man in the sky. Athiests are vilified and attacked for making a choice, as equally viable as the choice Christians make. If you want to be so good and accepting of others, the way the bibles says your God wants us to be, then I feel like you're doing him/her a tremendous disservice by judging people for being individuals and making choices of their own. I feel like that's part of the hypocrisy of Christianity. Be good to everyone and believe in God, or you'll go to hell. But don't be good to the Athiests and the gays, and the shrimp eaters, and the masturbaters, and do everything you can to convert them to the same blind faith that you hold in such high regard. Just think about that logic for a second. I'm not attacking Christians here, I'm really not, I promise. I have a few Christian friends who don't preach to me, and accept me for who I am and what I believe. But I encounter far more like the ones I have mentioned above, (including my mother, who I live with - you can imagine the tension). I don't know. I never pick fights, or get into theological debates with Christians, because I accept you know matter what you believe. But if you're going to vilify and and lecture us Athiests about how wrong you think we are, then maybe you should take a moment to stop and think to yourself, "Which one of us would God judge right now for our behavior towards the other?".

 

[ABeautifulMind]

And as far as my reference to God as "an invisible man in the sky", I'd just like to point out, in my defense, that...
Can you see God?
What gender is God usually depicted as being?
Isn't heaven generally recognized as being... that way ^ ?
I could have said, an unviewable male beyond the atmosphere. I just simplified it a bit.

 

[Kaden_Nite]

I got about as far in this graphemic cluster of visual static as the part where you claim to have read through seven pages of something that you don't give a shit about before my eyes started blurring words together. Now, I'm not involved in an ism of any sort, though if there is one thing that I can firmly say I believe in, it's paragraphs.

A nice clean separation between statements to help the more hallucinogenically-sighted among us differentiate between lines of text.

Like this.

Thank you and good day sir.

 

[Cosmic Trigger]

Very feel people anywhere it seems feel that what another believes is none of their business . Not just religion but politics, sports, arts, science, etc. War is often the result. What I don't understand is how humans feel somehow we are superior to other animals? Go figure.

Oh and paragraphs do make reading posts a lot easier.

 

[assclass]

Anything that conflicts with your personal world view is a threat and an insult to some people.

 

[Nixiam]

As a former Christian, I was taught not to converse with gays nor atheists, as I was taught to pray and was introduced to people with the same opinion as me. I was taught that all other religions are forms of Satanism. I was taught that drugs are bad and alcohol is bad. Everyone I was around believed and so I had to believe.

Being around atheists made me sick. Sick to my stomach.

How could someone NOT believe in god?

I even came up with Pascal's Wager on my own.

Christians are quick to judge the same way you (or anyone for that matter) are quick to judge, because you each have strongly held developed views.

Even thouh I share much the same opinion as you, I cannot say every Christian is the same.

 

[Xorkoth]

I find it goes both ways. Many atheists I have met are immensely judgmental/dismissive of religious people as well. It would be best if everyone could just realize that everyone comes to different conclusions, and operate with a baseline level of respect for others whether they agree with you or not.

 

[ABeautifulMind]

I got about as far in this graphemic cluster of visual static as the part where you claim to have read through seven pages of something that you don't give a shit about before my eyes started blurring words together. Now, I'm not involved in an ism of any sort, though if there is one thing that I can firmly say I believe in, it's paragraphs.

A nice clean separation between statements to help the more hallucinogenically-sighted among us differentiate between lines of text.

Like this.

Thank you and good day sir.

I really will go to great lengths to avoid confrontation to the best of my ability, however, I am well known for feeling the strong need to defend myself when necessary. SO...I never claimed to not give a shit about the particular discussion that was unfolding in that thread. I found it to be rather interesting, albeit somewhat frustrating. As for the lack of paragraphic definition, before you get all high and mighty, I will just say that last night prior to typing this, one of my cats had been sitting on my laptop, and really fucked a few things up, that I have yet to figure out how to fix, eg. backspace key, space bar, and shift keys are all not functioning properly, as well as any double letters - subsequently making that post take nearly an hour to type. I'd also like to defend myself in saying, I'd like to consider myself to be a relatively advanced, and articulate writer, for someone who is almost certainly much younger than yourself. I apologize for my so-called "graphemic cluster of visual static". Hope it didn't hurt your eyes too much. Thank you for your insightful contribution.

 

[ABeautifulMind]

I find it goes both ways. Many atheists I have met are immensely judgmental/dismissive of religious people as well. It would be best if everyone could just realize that everyone comes to different conclusions, and operate with a baseline level of respect for others whether they agree with you or not.

I don't disagree with this at all. I've known several athiests who were absolute assholes about religion and very outspoken and abrasive when they decided to pipe up about the subject matter. I think athiests can be a little more abrasive when arguing their stance, but in my experience, Christians are much more passionate, and to some extent, even relentless sometimes. The thing about that though, is I've yet to meet an athiest who expresses those views in the presence of a Christian. That's the big difference that I have noticed. At least in my circle of athiests, we have our little religious debates in private, amongst one another. We don't fire off at Christians, because that would be incredibly rude and offensive. Yet the Christians have no qualms about attempting to shut us down. Again, I'm not generalizing here, this is just my personal, collective experience. Judging someone for their religion is, in my opinion, one of the most superficial acts one can do.

 

[Nixiam]

Anybody would want to shut you down if you try and change their fond preconception of life.

That is why.

 

[Kaden_Nite]

Some people want to argue about religion, put the blame on this religion or that religion- It doesn't help, but it's nothing new.
Others just want to blame each others' way of seeing things in general- Again, I don't think it helps, but whatever.
When people start blaming cats for their inability to use paragraphs- That is completely unacceptable. Say what you will about people, but using the meager housecat as a scapegoat for your grammatical flaws is a cheap shot, a real low blow.

That is just sick. Forget the paragraphs, I no longer wish to read anything you have to write.

Good day sir

 

[swilow]

^

To be fair, I didn't notice too much vehemence in the "smug atheists" thread. I mean, the OP was a definite troll and the most obvious necromantic alt account I have encountered Apart from his/their typical mindgame nonsense, any christians or believers left the thread pretty quickly which is pretty much what usually happens. I don't entirely blame them.

Both sides are guilty of excessive polemic arguments really. I think people like David Silverman suck, I do not think you need to be aggressive to get people to listen to you. I find the militant atheist movement to be overkill in the same way fundamental reliigious movements are usually excessive. But, I must admit, I rarely if ever read the arguments of believers these days. I am always looking for interesting opinions to examine but the believers camp exhibits a paucity of argument. The main line seems to be that atheists are aggressive, tedious, boring, unoriginal, sheep-like, etc. That's not an argument, that is a basic insult.

 

[ABeautifulMind]

Some people want to argue about religion, put the blame on this religion or that religion- It doesn't help, but it's nothing new.
Others just want to blame each others' way of seeing things in general- Again, I don't think it helps, but whatever.
When people start blaming cats for their inability to use paragraphs- That is completely unacceptable. Say what you will about people, but using the meager housecat as a scapegoat for your grammatical flaws is a cheap shot, a real low blow.

That is just sick. Forget the paragraphs, I no longer wish to read anything you have to write.

Good day sir

Are your shoes too tight or something? You seem a little tense. I will continue to write, but once again, I appreciate your input.
Goodnight, sweet prince.

 

[Ksa]

That's cause to a Christian, the Bible is like a videocard, everything is processed through that so the processor doesn't have to process anything.

 

[swilow]

That's cause to a Christian, the Bible is like a videocard, everything is processed through that so the processor doesn't have to process anything.

That's only really true of some Christians. IME, the majority of Christians are as filled with doubts as the rest of us. Even the catholic church concedes that much of the Bible is allegorical and not literal.

I can understand why christians would dislike atheism. I mean, for most religious people, their religion is a vital part of their identity and, implicit in atheism, is the refutation of that identity. Atheism says that the christian or theistic outlook is erroneous. Telling people they are wrong, even if this is only implied, is usually met with resistance. I've just never encountered reistance that is compelling or reasonable; most theistic arguments against atheism descend into my word vs yours rapidly. I end up say each to their own in nearly every such debate because I understand that my words are not going to change the personal identity of a religious person, regardless of their validity and veracity.

It seems to me that the pro-theism movement has been more vehement for longer than the atheist movement. Think about the lengths various religions have gone to quash true, objective knowledge of the external world.The church burnt people alive for claiming that the sun did not orbit the earth. The hate that was meted out to Charles Darwin is more akin to youtube comments than to academic assesment. Religious movements go to great lengths to protect their mythology. It shouldn't be a surprise them that their opposition is now starting to take the gloves off so to speak.

 

[Foreigner]

There are different kinds of Christians... not just one kind.

Some leave it up to God, knowing that they don't have control over the design or its trials. They can befriend sinners knowing that their own judgments are irrelevant.

Others take it upon themselves to try and save you, based on Biblical teachings. They really do believe that you are headed somewhere bad and it would be unethical not to say something about it. This kind of charity is built into the faith and most feel duty-bound to honour it.

I much prefer dealing with the former group, than the latter. The latter group is easy to rebut, mostly because it's up to God to show me the means of my own salvation, a process which is beyond the momentary knowing of another mere human being. I remind them of this -- which they hate.

I met a Christian recently who had a very fascinating take on the nature of sin, and how being homosexual isn't actually sinful in of itself.

Bottom line... Christians fall into all the usual, predictable ego traps that any sub-group of humanity does. It takes all kinds.

What turns me off about Christians is not the judgments, because everyone judges; what turns me off is the presumption that we are all sinners by default. I completely reject that paradigm and always will. Anyone who is living true to their inner selves, as God created them, regardless if it goes against the grain of society and good Christian circles, is not a sinner and is in fact doing God's work.

 

[Jimzip]

This seems to be more of an issue in the New World (US, Mexico etc) than here in Western Europe - I know quite a few Christians and none of them have any issue or misunderstanding about atheists or agnostics (of which I am one)

 

[Xorkoth]

There are different kinds of Christians... not just one kind.

Some leave it up to God, knowing that they don't have control over the design or its trials. They can befriend sinners knowing that their own judgments are irrelevant.

Others take it upon themselves to try and save you, based on Biblical teachings. They really do believe that you are headed somewhere bad and it would be unethical not to say something about it. This kind of charity is built into the faith and most feel duty-bound to honour it.

I much prefer dealing with the former group, than the latter. The latter group is easy to rebut, mostly because it's up to God to show me the means of my own salvation, a process which is beyond the momentary knowing of another mere human being. I remind them of this -- which they hate.

I met a Christian recently who had a very fascinating take on the nature of sin, and how being homosexual isn't actually sinful in of itself.

Bottom line... Christians fall into all the usual, predictable ego traps that any sub-group of humanity does. It takes all kinds.

What turns me off about Christians is not the judgments, because everyone judges; what turns me off is the presumption that we are all sinners by default. I completely reject that paradigm and always will. Anyone who is living true to their inner selves, as God created them, regardless if it goes against the grain of society and good Christian circles, is not a sinner and is in fact doing God's work.

I am also bothered by the concept of original sin. As a kid I was raised Christian (Methodist, not Catholic, but the idea still came up sometimes), and it was the first thing I remember that made me think, hey, wait a minute, this doesn't seem right. So the first human disobeyed god, and that means I am automatically full of sin, and so is everyone else? Seems more like a fear control mechanism. I remember having this thought quite young, and it planted a seed of doubt such that I never recall really believing in it once I was able to actually critically think.

But yes, there are all kinds of Christians, as there are all kinds of all kinds of people. I've met Christians I can't stand and Christians who are some of the best people I know. I've attended churches that struck me as really sad and terrible, and churches that really have the right idea. My mom is one of the best people I know, she loves everyone and is all about accepting people for who they are, she's quite religious but it brings her so much joy, and she brings a lot of other people joy too. There's definitely a right way to do it.

 

[ABeautifulMind]

This seems to be more of an issue in the New World (US, Mexico etc) than here in Western Europe - I know quite a few Christians and none of them have any issue or misunderstanding about atheists or agnostics (of which I am one)

I'm inclined to believe that this is primarily due to the fact that the UK has a greater population of athiest/agnostic people. Historically (recent), you guys seem to have come to accept that some people just don't believe in God. I'm not sure why this is. Maybe it's something in the tea. But from what I understand, England specifically has one of the highest percentages of non-religious people. Funny how our little chunks of land all over the earth can vary so much.

 

[ABeautifulMind]

I am also bothered by the concept of original sin. As a kid I was raised Christian (Methodist, not Catholic, but the idea still came up sometimes), and it was the first thing I remember that made me think, hey, wait a minute, this doesn't seem right. So the first human disobeyed god, and that means I am automatically full of sin, and so is everyone else? Seems more like a fear control mechanism. I remember having this thought quite young, and it planted a seed of doubt such that I never recall really believing in it once I was able to actually critically think.

But yes, there are all kinds of Christians, as there are all kinds of all kinds of people. I've met Christians I can't stand and Christians who are some of the best people I know. I've attended churches that struck me as really sad and terrible, and churches that really have the right idea. My mom is one of the best people I know, she loves everyone and is all about accepting people for who they are, she's quite religious but it brings her so much joy, and she brings a lot of other people joy too. There's definitely a right way to do it.

You're absolutely right. People are people. Regardless of race, religion, or anything else that has become a defining label. Your comment further stresses what I try to stress to many Christians - Just because we don't believe in this God, doesn't mean we aren't good people, or any less than you. You said yourself, you know Christians that are wonderful. I don't know too many Christians that would say everything you said about us non-believers. Of course they're out there, I just don't come across them. I just wish that acceptance could be equally mutual. It's this whole, "I accept you for who you are, why can't you do the same" that really gets me down about Christianity.
Maybe it comes partly from parental influence. I know I was born into Catholicism, and with that, came always hearing my mom talk about those filthy athiests and how meaningless their lives are, and how utterly warped and twisted their evil little minds are. Naturally, I grew up despising athiests. I literally would not allow myself to befriend someone who was an athiest. Crazy how much we can change. Who knows, maybe that really is a big part of it. Then again, I was just a kid. I'm still just a kid, but I was a much younger kid. A child will believe anything they grow up hearing from their parents.