Simulation Theory

[vortech]

I thought I had already created a thread for this subject, or at least saw one here, but I couldn't find it so here we go.

I expect this topic has been mused over by basically all contemporary intellectuals by this point. With good reason given our current state of technological progression, it is one of the more intriguing thought experiments of the new millennium. It was likely 'The Matrix' in 1999 that seeded the idea firmly into the collective consciousness. It again 'hit the front page' this year when Elon Musk stated his conclusion that the chance we are in 'base reality' is 'one in billions'.

This brings me to a very interesting trip I had a few weeks ago. I had taken a potent amount of 3-Meo-PCP throughout the day at a weekend-long festival, and as the music was winding down for the evening my mind wandered into this subject. It is hard to explain the logic path I took...and logic may not be the right word...it was more of an exercise in intuiting and loose associating as my mind sought to explain a series of events that were not otherwise explainable by my human-sized brain. Anyway, I had the 'ah ha' moment, a deep feeling that yes, this is all a simulation, and it all made perfect sense.

I felt as if I reached the conclusion organically. It wasn't like I said 'OK, I have a theory that 'reality' may be a simulation....let's try validating the theory by pigeon-holing it'. It was more like I tested all sorts of possible explanations, and the ONLY one that worked out as a valid explanation for every one of the tested phenomena was Simulation Theory. After the 'Ah Ha' moment I continued to feel it out for another half hour or so just to make sure I didn't miss any cracks, and it continued to feel intuitively as if I had stumbled upon some sort of proof. This is not new; as I have continued to grow my sense of intuition, Simulation Theory always had a certain feeling to it, like it was the only reality that made sense, but I always remained a couple steps back from 'surrendering' to it. Aside from the fact that 'normal people' would assume I had lost my last marble if I started screaming this from the rooftops, there is was the issue of assuaging my ego when informing it does not in fact exist. Like any ego doing its job, it is nearly always screaming from the rooftop of my mind "NO, I won't believe it!!! I MUST be REAL!!!!! See....look at my flesh bag! It feels real, it looks real, it smalls real, it thinks REAL!!!!"

However, this night a few weeks ago was different. Because of my aforementioned ego-tempering dose of 3-Meo-PCP, I easily came to terms with and was able to let my ego down gently. The result was *extremely* peaceful and freeing. Strikingly, this feeling has persisted ever since that night, and my 'reality' shift has benefited me with an increased sense of flow and synchronicity. Imagine if we all realized tomorrow that we are in fact living in a simulation. I don't know what would happen, but I only hope that it would cause the world to come together like never before, ushering in a new golden age of peace and prosperity. We would take life more lightly and not sweat one bit or byte of it. If Earth is just a program, there must be a way to hack this thing to create our Utopian dreams come true.

I could go on longer, but I want to hear other people's perspective.

 

[neurotic]

I think this questioning "how can I know if I'm not just a 'brain in a vat'?", along with other ones like wondering about solipsism and such, all have a common root - the fact that we are limited to/all we can be sure of is our own subjective experience.

I think we start with the assumption that what we experience is, or at least is somewhat 'consonant' with reality, and these questionings arise when we start considering the possibility/noticing that the experience might not be as close to reality as we'd hope it to be. Personally I don't see a philosophical 'way out' - it ends at "all we can know is experience, and we'll have to make do with that" for me. I have noticed some people get psychologically distressed from this, because since they cannot know 'reality' they become afraid that they are being tricked - really, IMO it is there that lies the difference between 'simulation' and 'reality': a simulation would mean that there was a perverse intent to it all etc -, but gladly I don't worry much about it personally...

 

[Jabberwocky]

I think that it is entirely plausible we are in a type of simulation, whether that be in a more interactive sense, like logged into some multiplayer virtual reality simulator in a basement somewhere, or in an imagined/projected sense, like a dream. If that were the case, it is unlikely we stop there. Consciousness may very well be in a fractal-like pattern of simulations within simulations. When you think about it it's a very efficient means of co-creation between selves and expansion of what constitutes God.

These thoughts occur to me from time to time in expanded/altered states of awareness. Often they are experienced as somewhat fearful and disorienting. One of the scary thoughts is: what reality will I awaken into when this game is over. Another is: what is the objective of this and when does this stop? They can be a little unsettling those thoughts tbh, feels alienating to self to some extent.

I've seen myself in the simulator chair during psychedelic experience personally. I know lots of others have too. Then again I've seen myself in lots of strange realities. So grain of salt to it all. It's a real interesting concept though and I suspect there is truth to it. After all, we are now at the infancy of immersive new tools for virtual reality. Won't be long before we get deeply sucked into those realms.

 

[Ninae]

Yes, in a way I think the body can be seen as a form of avatar, and we can't "play" here if it dies.

 

[Solipsis]

If we're in a simulation, which for starters is inconsequential in a lot of respects, what makes you think it makes more sense than anything else, why would anyone be able to become aware of it? Assuming of course that the simulation is run as part of something greater, because if it isn't then saying it is a simulation is completely meaningless (wouldn't you agree?) .

If it is part of something greater, then rather than simplifying (which goes hand in hand with making sense because of cognitive ease), it actually makes the whole metatheory more convoluted than it was before.

If you ask me, convoluting things is usually a bad sign... if you consider the "god of the gaps" principle, you see that convoluting yourself with cop-outs progressively reveals superstitious ignorance, mathematics and physics show us that unifying and simplifying tends to be most elegant and credible.

The spiritual simulation-like nature of reality rather is to me the understanding that consciousness is a matter of perspective, that altered states of consciousness trigger such unity and/or dissociation of our normal senses that define boundaries and individual identity, that the perspective can shift to that of "just being", which is what is shared by everything that is. (Though pay close attention not to confuse consciousness with awareness with life with intelligence etc! This is crucial.) To me that is what everything from Buddha-nature to Brahman etc refers to.
However, going to anthropomorphization of this shared non-local consciousness as e.g. god, an entity many imagine can be compared to a person in the sense that it has intelligence in the normally defined way, or intentions, morals etc seems like a gross error. And ideas about computerized scaffolds housing simulations are an equal fallacy to me, let alone considering entities that run computer simulations. And as I suggested with the "convoluted" issue: it solves no conundrum but just makes us zoom out another level, and again all the same questions arise.
Those ideas about gods or simulations are properties we like to project onto this concept of a unified principle, and all it shows us is what associations we have, our ideas about ultimate intelligence, ultimate morals or ultimate mechanistics. I don't think people are aware of doing this, and how presumptiously it defeats the purpose of experiencing consciousness shifts.



well that's my opinion / look at it

 

[vortech]

Oh snap, here are a couple synchronicities.

Duncan Trussel was on the Joe Rogan podcast this week, and in the first 20 minutes Duncan dropped some very interesting thoughts from the perspective of Simulation Theory. I can tell he has thought about it at least as much as I have. LOL, he talked about Jesus being sent into the program to give humanity an 'upgrade'. I don't think even the programmers of the simulation could have forseen the repercussions of Christianity over the last couple thousand years.

Another notable alignment was the state of my biorhythms on the night I had the 'ah ha' moment. I had a triple convergence of peaks (intuition, intellect and physical) and my intuition peaked at 100% in those couple hours.
I've had better-than-expected results from tracking my rhythms and comparing my compatibility to other people. Its honestly kinda spooky, given that I was very skeptical at first. The best results are with an android app called 'personal biorhythms' and make sure you check the 'use more precise algorithms' when you enter your information.

 

[vortech]

Solipsis, nice thoughts. I agree, that it is a moot point to call it a simulation if this is THE simulation, and God in the traditional perspective of the highest almighty is the 'programmer'. If this universe is a microcosm with a microcosm then I would still call the advanced beings that made us equivalent of God.
Also agree about convolution, Ockham's Razor and all that. From my perspective the explanation that this world is a simulation is actually quite simple, elegant even. But that would take a good bit to explain.

 

[vortech]

One other thing, and by the way Mr Robot is easily the most awesome 'tv show' happening or has possibly ever happened, but that remains to be seen. Anyway they are giving slight hints about Simulation Theory. A week or two ago there was mention of 'operation Berenstein'. If you don't know Berenstein is a nod to Mandela Theory. I won't get into it but the theory is related to Simulation Theory. There is a subreddit dedicated to the phenomenon, it often gets to the weirdness level of r/Glitch_in_the_matrix, another sub that often touches on simulation theory.

 

[Xorkoth]

I think we are all existing in the greatest simulation of all, the universe as a singular point of raw awareness running the infinite illusion of separateness in order to experience something aside from infinite nothingness. Aside from that, I do not believe we're plugged in somewhere by aliens or something a la the Matrix or anything like that. Although, of course, we could be.

 

[vortech]

Here is another synchronicity for you. When I mentioned the Joe Rogan podcast episode about an hour ago I was still listening to it. I then posted about the Berenstain Bears phenomenon on this thread.... lo and behold, about an hour further into the podcast they fucking mentioned the berenstein bears and the whole thing about history changing on us, like in the movie 'Dark City'. They are called 'tuners', the ones that reconfigure the world....which is funny because my energy work modality is called 'tuning'...

 

[Xorkoth]

What is the "Berenstain Bears" phenomenon? I used to read those books as a kid. If you're talking about the books?

 

[vortech]

Xorkoth, buckle your seatbelt, cause Kansas is going bye-bye. Here is an article Vice did on the subject http://www.vice.com/read/the-berensteain-bears-conspiracy-theory-that-has-convinced-the-internet-there-are-parallel-universes

 

[vortech]

And it's Berenstein, not Berenstain, at least for anyone who grew up in the 80s. What about you Xorkoth, what do you remember it as?

 

[vortech]

Isn't it interesting that there still exists artifacts of the 'Berenstein' paradigm? For instance this https://www.estarland.com/SegaGenesis.cat.AA.product.4636.html

 

[Xorkoth]

I remember it being Berenstein, I kinda suspected that was the phenomenon when you mentioned it.

What does the author of the books say about what it's supposed to be, I wonder (or is the author alive)? I mean I do remember it that way but I can admit I could be wrong, because almost every "[insert prefix]stein" name is spelled with an E, so I may just be filling that in, having not seen the books since I was a kid. I will admit though when I search google images for the book covers (the ones I read as a kid are at my parents' house 700 miles away), it does look a little funny with the A in there. And we did read like all of them, repeatedly, we loved those books.

One weird thing in the article:

Unlike many other conspiracy theories, the doctrine of the Berensteins seems to be gaining traction due to the fact that readers can take a side. There's Team Stein and Team Stain and some of the people misremembering the fact, whatever they think that fact is, see that misremembrance as proof of a different, and possibly darker, timeline.

Why "possibly darker"? Sounds sensationalist to me. But maybe I'm not understanding.

Isn't it interesting that there still exists artifacts of the 'Berenstein' paradigm? For instance this https://www.estarland.com/SegaGenesis.cat.AA.product.4636.html

I thought it was, until I google image searched and the game cover actually spells it with an A, it's just the person who is selling that item that thought it was spelled with an E. The image in the sale posting is small and indistinct so you can't tell, that's why I google image searched.

http://img2.game-oldies.com/sites/d...erenstain-bears-camping-adventure-the-usa.png

 

[vortech]

I remember it being Berenstein, I kinda suspected that was the phenomenon when you mentioned it.

I thought it was, until I google image searched and the game cover actually spells it with an A, it's just the person who is selling that item that thought it was spelled with an E. The image in the sale posting is small and indistinct so you can't tell, that's why I google image searched.

http://img2.game-oldies.com/sites/d...erenstain-bears-camping-adventure-the-usa.png

Ah, not as awesome as I hoped then, but interesting you agree it remembered with an 'e'. My intuition tells me it was spelled with an 'e', and I even have some childhood memory regarding it that way. After all, I always pronounced it 'berenstEEn' bears'. If if was with an 'A' I would have pronounced it 'berenstANe'

 

[Ninae]

What about "Depends" and "Depend"? I remember them as "Depends".

 

[Jonneh]

The spiritual simulation-like nature of reality rather is to me the understanding that consciousness is a matter of perspective, that altered states of consciousness trigger such unity and/or dissociation of our normal senses that define boundaries and individual identity, that the perspective can shift to that of "just being", which is what is shared by everything that is.

I think that's pretty much it. 'Just being' isn't the bedrock, of course - there is still perspective (you are still being that particular being, rather than another), and purging of the remainder thereof can get us to Xorkoth's 'infinite nothingness'. How nice that altered states tend to stop short thus. What a happy medium!

The relation between the map and the territory might be the most boggling around (at least to my mind and its particular structure). If our consciousness is the set of representations of entities in the world (real or imagined, if that is a meaningful distinction), and the quale of redness is a representation of something red, then perhaps it is like something to be that object after all. But then the objectness is something that exists in a mind, and not in the (non-)object itself, and we're back to your 'just being' being the bedrock. Loopity-löp, with shades of Gödel.

 

[swilow]

I like the idea; I find it very unsettling though. I don't know if there is any way of obtaining proof, much less somehow attaining the ability to "hack" the simulation. I'm not sure what empirircal evidence could be presented to proof this either way. But, I find this idea very interesting. There seem to be fundamental points in which reality kind of breaks down, such as the super-small quantum realm and the apparent edge-less nature of the universe's boundary (if such a thing is even possible). The universe appears to be almost digital in terms of manifesting as discrete particles, with things like the Planck unit reminding me of digital bits aka the smallest possible parcel of reality. I'm not sure that this is suggest of a simulation, but it does make reality appear quantised. The lack of boundary recalls something "unfinished" or unattended to. Perhaps the expansion of the universe is actually a program copying/pasting large sections of "empty" space over and over. I can't figure out why you would program a big bang into things but perhaps that is just a retrospective piece of programming to explain the simulations sudden appearance out of nowhere after being switched on.

I could gibberise a whole swaggleload more brain-glitter but I am done.

Certainly, dissociatives have a digital and robotic feeling to me. It often leads me to a deep depersonalisation where my passage through the universe is almost seen through someone elses eyes; I am a passenger watching something inert and 2-dimensional that I witness but do not partake in. Of course, that is almost exactly what a dissociative does. I'd be wary in taking that feeling too far and assuming that it is representative of a truer reality.

Another is: what is the objective of this and when does this stop?

Also, when did it start? It could have been switched on 3 earth seconds ago, with our full memories of the past being simulated and we wouldn't know.

If we're in a simulation, which for starters is inconsequential in a lot of respects.

I liked your entire post solipsis, very much. I thought I would snip this bit and emphasise it. If we are in a simulation, or not, does not change the fundamental face of reality. It doesn't mean that this experience is not real. It doesn't devalue our experience or change it significantly. Our lives are as they are, and whether they are being simulated or not doesn't alter them.

 

[drug_mentor]

Here is another synchronicity for you. When I mentioned the Joe Rogan podcast episode about an hour ago I was still listening to it. I then posted about the Berenstain Bears phenomenon on this thread.... lo and behold, about an hour further into the podcast they fucking mentioned the berenstein bears and the whole thing about history changing on us, like in the movie 'Dark City'.

This isn't that weird, they were talking about simulation theory in the podcast, you were making a post about it in this thread. I am under the impression this is a common conspiracy which is cited as evidence of this simulation theory, it seems likely it would have came up on the podcast.

As to the Berenstain Bears conspiracy, you should look up false memories, there have been a lot of studies conducted on them. Elizabeth Loftus has done a lot of research on the phenomenon, that should help you track down some info. False memories are surprisingly common, people who have them have a tendency to be extremely convinced that they are true memories. The odds are that a lot of people are having false memories about the name of the show.