Hello everyone I am new here. A little about myself. I am a 255lb amateur bodybuilder. I have two toddlers and I want to start changing things around in my life. You guys would be surprised how hard-core bodybuilders abuse drugs. Amphetamines for energy opiates for pain benzo's and GHB for sleep, etc.
Anyway here is my dilemma. Two years ago my doctor prescribed me Adderall for ADD and I really don't have ADD but after trying the first pill I became hooked. The first year wasn't too bad I only took about 20 mg IR three or four days a week. But these past 8mo life is been hectic and I found myself using up to around 90 mg per day even though my doctor prescribes me 90 mg because of my size I still feel that's way too much and that its effected my blood pressure and heart rate. I have tried several times to taper off and I got myself to around 40 mg per day with them had a few bad days and relapsed and being off of it I feel like absolute crap. My doctor now switched me to 50 mg vyvanse and this stuff sucks. It doesn't last 8-12hrs for me. It kicks in in about 90 minutes and I am energized for maybe three hours at the most and then start crashing.
My other meds are 20mg lexapro and 150mg Wellbutrin XL. My ultimate goal is to get off everything but I am very concerned about neurotransmitter damage and how to recover it. I was just put on Wellbutrin so I'm hoping if I try to wean off addy/vyvanse in a few months it will be easier bc of the noreprinefin/dopamine increase from the Wellbutrin. And lexapro keeps my serotonin levels up so that's taken care of.
Ok so let's talk neurotransmitter's
A topic that's rarely discussed or most don't realize. There's data indicating amphetamines can cause myelin sheath degradation, inhibit dopamine release from D2 autoreceptors, neurotoxicity from over-stimuli of dopaminergic neurons that could possibly autooxidize too a nasty byproduct (metabolite), 6-hydroxydopamine. Thus, ultimately leading to dysfunction of the BBB (blood brain barrier), potentially setting the stage for pathogen(s) to breach the BBB. This all extends beyond dopaminergic and serotonergic terminal dysfunction people obsess over.
We all differ and are driven by different neuro-pathways. It's not limited to just dopamine. Knowing your personality trait can be of benefit to help regain the unwanted side effects of amphetamines.
As for myself. My favorable personality trait (I'm a introverted thinking [Ti], type of person). Knowing this helped me understand which area of the subtype(s) of neurotransmitters I needed to focus on, while coming off of Adderall. Unlike extroverts, who thrive and are driven mainly by dopamine. Most, yet not all Introverted individuals are primarily driven by acetylcholine. Acetylcholine interacts with the dopaminergic system, though it's hypothesized the pathways seem to differ. My area of focus is to slightly boost acetylcholine via CDP choline supplemention. A few experimental models has shown acetylcholine increases norepinephrine and dopamine. As well, there is some data indicating that CDP-choline may enhance myelin regeneration. Given that adderall has been noted to cause myelin degradation. This, with further discussed approaches may help reduce the induced neurotoxicity from Adderall.
So my supplement approach for boosting acetylcholine is:
Jarrows CDP Choline 250mg 2x per day
NOW's GCP 1200mg 2x per day
I use a host of other health supplements like Vitamin C,D,K,E, fish oils, tons of whey protein,etc... but I plan to stay on the above two while I am still on my Lexapro Wellbutrin and vyvanse/adderall.
What I'm trying to figure out is once I can finally kick the vyvanse/adderall addiction I would like to slowly get off of the Lexapro and Wellbutrin without feeling terrible. Obviously the first step would be to slowly taper the doses over a few months but when I am not taking it at all I need to replenish norepi, dopamine and serotonin with supplements so I don't have to wait months and months and months for them to recover on their own. It really bothers me that these neurotransmitters can stay depleted for such a long period of time after discontinued use of the antidepressants. I would think if the antidepressants are only blocking the reuptake then when discontinued you would think the reuptake process would be what it normally was and you would produce the same amount of neurotransmitters as you had previous to taking the antidepressants. Therefore maybe you wouldn't feel it as much since you are producing normal levels of neurotransmitters opposed to elevated levels from the blockage of the reuptake but normal levels should make you feel fine. Apparently it doesn't work that way so my supplement regimen for restoring norepinephrine and dopamine is as follows.
3000mg daily of L-tyrosine
1000mg daily of Phenylalanine
800mg velvet bean extract(mucuna pruriens) 15% L-Dopa
Adrenal support
<snip>
I'll deal with serotonin later. So my ? is, is there anything else I can take to help speed up the process of replenishing the neurotransmitter's when I discontinue the Wellbutrin. And even more importantly is there anything I can take besides caffeine to help give me the energy the vyvanse/adderall does bc I'm a zombie without it.
Anyway here is my dilemma. Two years ago my doctor prescribed me Adderall for ADD and I really don't have ADD but after trying the first pill I became hooked. The first year wasn't too bad I only took about 20 mg IR three or four days a week. But these past 8mo life is been hectic and I found myself using up to around 90 mg per day even though my doctor prescribes me 90 mg because of my size I still feel that's way too much and that its effected my blood pressure and heart rate. I have tried several times to taper off and I got myself to around 40 mg per day with them had a few bad days and relapsed and being off of it I feel like absolute crap. My doctor now switched me to 50 mg vyvanse and this stuff sucks. It doesn't last 8-12hrs for me. It kicks in in about 90 minutes and I am energized for maybe three hours at the most and then start crashing.
My other meds are 20mg lexapro and 150mg Wellbutrin XL. My ultimate goal is to get off everything but I am very concerned about neurotransmitter damage and how to recover it. I was just put on Wellbutrin so I'm hoping if I try to wean off addy/vyvanse in a few months it will be easier bc of the noreprinefin/dopamine increase from the Wellbutrin. And lexapro keeps my serotonin levels up so that's taken care of.
Ok so let's talk neurotransmitter's
A topic that's rarely discussed or most don't realize. There's data indicating amphetamines can cause myelin sheath degradation, inhibit dopamine release from D2 autoreceptors, neurotoxicity from over-stimuli of dopaminergic neurons that could possibly autooxidize too a nasty byproduct (metabolite), 6-hydroxydopamine. Thus, ultimately leading to dysfunction of the BBB (blood brain barrier), potentially setting the stage for pathogen(s) to breach the BBB. This all extends beyond dopaminergic and serotonergic terminal dysfunction people obsess over.
We all differ and are driven by different neuro-pathways. It's not limited to just dopamine. Knowing your personality trait can be of benefit to help regain the unwanted side effects of amphetamines.
As for myself. My favorable personality trait (I'm a introverted thinking [Ti], type of person). Knowing this helped me understand which area of the subtype(s) of neurotransmitters I needed to focus on, while coming off of Adderall. Unlike extroverts, who thrive and are driven mainly by dopamine. Most, yet not all Introverted individuals are primarily driven by acetylcholine. Acetylcholine interacts with the dopaminergic system, though it's hypothesized the pathways seem to differ. My area of focus is to slightly boost acetylcholine via CDP choline supplemention. A few experimental models has shown acetylcholine increases norepinephrine and dopamine. As well, there is some data indicating that CDP-choline may enhance myelin regeneration. Given that adderall has been noted to cause myelin degradation. This, with further discussed approaches may help reduce the induced neurotoxicity from Adderall.
So my supplement approach for boosting acetylcholine is:
Jarrows CDP Choline 250mg 2x per day
NOW's GCP 1200mg 2x per day
I use a host of other health supplements like Vitamin C,D,K,E, fish oils, tons of whey protein,etc... but I plan to stay on the above two while I am still on my Lexapro Wellbutrin and vyvanse/adderall.
What I'm trying to figure out is once I can finally kick the vyvanse/adderall addiction I would like to slowly get off of the Lexapro and Wellbutrin without feeling terrible. Obviously the first step would be to slowly taper the doses over a few months but when I am not taking it at all I need to replenish norepi, dopamine and serotonin with supplements so I don't have to wait months and months and months for them to recover on their own. It really bothers me that these neurotransmitters can stay depleted for such a long period of time after discontinued use of the antidepressants. I would think if the antidepressants are only blocking the reuptake then when discontinued you would think the reuptake process would be what it normally was and you would produce the same amount of neurotransmitters as you had previous to taking the antidepressants. Therefore maybe you wouldn't feel it as much since you are producing normal levels of neurotransmitters opposed to elevated levels from the blockage of the reuptake but normal levels should make you feel fine. Apparently it doesn't work that way so my supplement regimen for restoring norepinephrine and dopamine is as follows.
3000mg daily of L-tyrosine
1000mg daily of Phenylalanine
800mg velvet bean extract(mucuna pruriens) 15% L-Dopa
Adrenal support
<snip>
I'll deal with serotonin later. So my ? is, is there anything else I can take to help speed up the process of replenishing the neurotransmitter's when I discontinue the Wellbutrin. And even more importantly is there anything I can take besides caffeine to help give me the energy the vyvanse/adderall does bc I'm a zombie without it.
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