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Enlightenment

Light and dark are aspects of the same thing. They are non dualistic in actuality. You cannot have one without the other. Darkness is the absence of light, light the absence of darkness. Only light can be overshadowed. Only darkness can be lit.

I don't believe in enlightenment but I believe darkness and light are worth exploring. Disregard the dogma, set yourself free :)
 
Enlightenment among other things is the realization that the physical reality is the manifestation of a conscious mind. At the very bottom of physical elements there's consciousness, everything is conscious at some level. There's an infinite network of consciousness beyond space and time and this reality is just consciousness experiencing itself, it's just a ride. We are all connected, the nature, the people. Another attribute of enlightenment is overcoming EGO, which is a generator of fear and hatred. EGO is what creates self inflicted suffering and a life long chasing after some illusory sense of impermanent joy. Once you start being more aware of your mind, you can catch yourself being manipulated by your EGO to avoid fear, and you put on a special mask to do it, so you're never really yourself.
 
Light and dark are aspects of the same thing. They are non dualistic in actuality. You cannot have one without the other. Darkness is the absence of light, light the absence of darkness. Only light can be overshadowed. Only darkness can be lit.

I don't believe in enlightenment but I believe darkness and light are worth exploring. Disregard the dogma, set yourself free :)

Do some research buddy. Enlightenment is a real human experience that has been verified through scientific investigation. It simply takes the ability to inhibit right parietal functioning. This same process is involved regardless of religion. Even an atheist can connect to a higher perspective and be awed by the magnificence of Existence whether he chooses to see Nature as a higher power or humanity. It does matter what labels you choose. You're still in the same boat as everyone. You may choose not to label Nature as your god, but it still has absolute control over who you are and what your life will be. Whenever you feel you have conquered Nature you have only done its bidding. For it must be in your nature to rise above what you think your nature is, before you can change what comes naturally to you.

Sorry, I have studied this religion thing so much, I can't help but to see atheism as a losing side with nothing to offer. No closer to the truth. Nothing to gain. No Hope. No Faith. Beliefs are inherently ego-centric. It kills me that they claim logic is their guide. Yet, they go around trying to prove the non-existence of a Supreme Being. As if it could be done. Like it is so hard for them to admit that anything could be possible. There are a million ways to conceive of a higher being. If you can't do that, you must lack imagination. If you find it unnecessary, then the logical choice is agnosticism. It takes a certain kind of personality to claim this thing so many people believe in does not exist at all in any form.

I'm glad we have these kinds of people. They serve their function. But, I am sure glad not to be one of them because of the traits many of them seem to share. Pessimistic, Cycnical, Egoic, Narrow-minded, etc.
 
Swilow didn't really mention religion or spirituality at all, or his spiritual/religious stance, or the atheism vs non-atheism debate... he was stating a belief in not believing in enlightenment, which is valid. My problem with the word is twofold - first, it's rather loaded and ego-centric in itself, IMO. When are you enlightened? At what point in the process of reaching for it do you cross over? Are there degrees of enlightenment? I think it's possible to be extremely mindful and live your life with a great amount of awareness and a reduction in the power of the ego to influence behaviors and decisions. That's what I try to do. I don't believe that by meditating or whatever, or on psychedelics, I will reach some special, new place that is fundamentally different from other modes of perception, it is just a process of shedding more and more extraneous noise and filters. At the core, we are always the observer and we always have every choice available to us. This race towards enlightenment begins to seem like a contest for many. Certainly the new agey stuff I hear people passionately espousing sometimes bothers me. For some, it is certainly all a big ego game to seek enlightenment.
 
I for one would like to see the "scientific evidence" of enlightenment.. And for the reccord, I am 100% agnostic but have had many very enlightening experience and still do on a regular basis. It's a state of mind, plain ans simple. Nothing to do with religion
 
Swilow didn't really mention religion or spirituality at all, or his spiritual/religious stance, or the atheism vs non-atheism debate... he was stating a belief in not believing in enlightenment, which is valid. My problem with the word is twofold - first, it's rather loaded and ego-centric in itself, IMO. When are you enlightened? At what point in the process of reaching for it do you cross over? Are there degrees of enlightenment? I think it's possible to be extremely mindful and live your life with a great amount of awareness and a reduction in the power of the ego to influence behaviors and decisions. That's what I try to do. I don't believe that by meditating or whatever, or on psychedelics, I will reach some special, new place that is fundamentally different from other modes of perception, it is just a process of shedding more and more extraneous noise and filters. At the core, we are always the observer and we always have every choice available to us. This race towards enlightenment begins to seem like a contest for many. Certainly the new agey stuff I hear people passionately espousing sometimes bothers me. For some, it is certainly all a big ego game to seek enlightenment.

It's just a label to describe a perception. Humans love to attach all sorts of associations to our labels and bend and strech their meaning to imply whatever makes them cozy. However, the underlying message was meant to describe "religious emotions" and we have found a universal component in these experiences to be "selflessness." Keep in mind this is just another label and very well may not exist in absolute or permanent terms, but rather when reflection is focused on the bigger picture or oneself, the feeling of separation between your "self" and the rest of Existence is perceived to diminish and a person can become overwhelmed with a sense of awe that one can't help but to feel a sense of reverence. This sensation is filtered through a person's worldly perspective and can be perceived as "enlightenment", visit from an angel, moksha, divine inspiration, oneness with spirit, union with nature, epiphanies about our human nature, fascination with science, whatever speaks to your soul or lack there of.

I experience enlightenment all the time, but am enlightened enough to realize its doubtful I will ever become fully enlightenment until my death. For I can never fully let go of my body and mind while it still has good functioning. I prefer to use the word unselfish rather than selfless, because even when I am sacrificing my wants for the common good, I know deep down I do it for me to. To avoid feelings if guilt and remorse and to increase self value and receive the gift of spiritual emotion on a regular basis.

I do believe the kind of enlightened people exist. You can feel it emanating out from their smiling body language and gracious posturing. Maybe I was just mystified by their vow of silence....

A common problem I see with new age spiritualism is the mistake that a piece of the system can ever equate the whole. The whole of anything is beyond our comprehension because we only see in pieces. Any conceptualization we form to symbolize the whole is still just a symbol an image of the whole that only contains portions within it. Without this consideration, we might cling to something unreal and give ourselves a false impression of who we are. Sense objective reality is unattainable, thats all we ever do anyway. It sure makes them feel good to think of that they are all god consciousness, it makes them behave in "godly" compassionate ways. It breeds unity, acceptance, tolerance, openmindedness etc... My differences with that kind of spiritualism is mostly semantic. So, I'm only hopeful that style of religion catches on.


Btw, I was inspired by swillows post, but was speaking in general terms. He himself has never came of as a dogmatic type atheist, more of the agnostic kind. As far as I can tell.
 
So you don't believe in something you have experienced first hand? Fascinating.


http://munews.missouri.edu/news-releases/2008/1217-johnstone-brain-spirituality.php

I didn't say I didn't believe in enlightenment, I simply asked for scientific evidence since you mentioned. I was under the impression that you meant it was scientifically linked to religion in some way, which it isn't and even this article states. I fully acknowledge and am aware that brain functions alter significantly during such an experience and was hoping to be able to look at an actual study, but unfortunately your link doesn't provide it.
But I want to add that one does not need religion or even a belief in a higher power to be enlightened. Someone who is restrained by religion is actually far *less* likely to reach actual enlightenment. Which is where I fully disagree with you. As I stated before, it's a state of mind, nothing else.
 
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What scientific evidence? At the base of each mind theres a source of awareness, consciousness, then theres the mind, a creation of the brain as a result from identifying itself in a physical world, where everything is separate, your brain develops a sense of self, and the self is selfish, it wants to satisfy itself, obviously. That's your ego, your ego either wants security or happiness, or is perhaps afraid of judgement of others, or perhaps criticizes others by comparing itself and reassuring itself of its significance to gain even more self worth. Whatever you do in this life, at least for most people, is to look for permanent satisfaction of your ego, yourself by impermanent means and you don't know that you're doing it. Unless you genuinely start to question the nature of reality and yourself, then you will never awaken from being driven by your ego. You wont find the answer in philosophy or science or religion, these are just frozen concepts of an idea that cant be grasped by the mind. You need to contemplate deeply and realize that your feelings and your emotions and your thoughts are based on external factors and don't exist in their own right, they are simply a side effect of interpreting a physical reality. You must realize that all you really are is consciousness, simply existing, infinite, beyond space and time, everlasting, knowing itself by direct experience as its the source of every single element of our world. Consciousness is God as we call it, and we are part of it and its part of everything. What this existence means is simply consciousness experiencing itself. We are on a ride, its just a ride.
 
I didn't say I didn't believe in enlightenment, I simply asked for scientific evidence since you mentioned. I was under the impression that you meant it was scientifically linked to religion in some way, which it isn't and even this article states. I fully acknowledge and am aware that brain functions alter significantly during such an experience and was hoping to be able to look at an actual study, but unfortunately your link doesn't provide it.
But I want to add that one does not need religion or even a belief in a higher power to be enlightened. Someone who is restrained by religion is actually far *less* likely to reach actual enlightenment. Which is where I fully disagree with you. As I stated before, it's a state of mind, nothing else.
Apparently you can't read and or too lazy to read things fully through or attempt to understand what you read. You haven't disagreed with a word I said. Where did I say religion had anything to do with anything. There is plenty of scientific evidence. They have made a god helmet. I don't owe you my time. There are 3 valid studies from reliable sources. If u r interested google it yourself.
 
What scientific evidence? At the base of each mind theres a source of awareness, consciousness, then theres the mind, a creation of the brain as a result from identifying itself in a physical world, where everything is separate, your brain develops a sense of self, and the self is selfish, it wants to satisfy itself, obviously. That's your ego, your ego either wants security or happiness, or is perhaps afraid of judgement of others, or perhaps criticizes others by comparing itself and reassuring itself of its significance to gain even more self worth. Whatever you do in this life, at least for most people, is to look for permanent satisfaction of your ego, yourself by impermanent means and you don't know that you're doing it. Unless you genuinely start to question the nature of reality and yourself, then you will never awaken from being driven by your ego. You wont find the answer in philosophy or science or religion, these are just frozen concepts of an idea that cant be grasped by the mind. You need to contemplate deeply and realize that your feelings and your emotions and your thoughts are based on external factors and don't exist in their own right, they are simply a side effect of interpreting a physical reality. You must realize that all you really are is consciousness, simply existing, infinite, beyond space and time, everlasting, knowing itself by direct experience as its the source of every single element of our world. Consciousness is God as we call it, and we are part of it and its part of everything. What this existence means is simply consciousness experiencing itself. We are on a ride, its just a ride.

Or maybe consciousness is simply an emergent property of our brain functioning. My feelings and emotions may be based on external and internal factors but they still exist in whatever right you perceive them to have. Not sure what you meant by saying they don't exist in their own right. They're our emotions and feelings so we have every right to feel them.

I question the nature of reality and myself enough to realize there is no escaping one's ego. You need to represent your frame of reference somehow. If you aren't driven by ego what are you doing expressing it here?
 
Apparently you can't read and or too lazy to read things fully through or attempt to understand what you read. You haven't disagreed with a word I said. Where did I say religion had anything to do with anything. There is plenty of scientific evidence. They have made a god helmet. I don't owe you my time. There are 3 valid studies from reliable sources. If u r interested google it yourself.
All I'm gonna say is you could definitely use a major dose of enlightenment yourself...
 
Thought this interview may be of interest to some of you. This man had an enlightenment experience in 1947, he discusses it briefly in the video too, but also throws out some other bits of wisdom. I have yet to come across another western individual who can put it so plainly and also (in my opinion) is not full of shit. I genuinely believe this man was the real deal. Describes it briefly at the beginning, and then a more detailed account at 9:49, though he does leave bits out properly owing to the fact it was a radio interview and would go over the ladies head a bit.

He clearly describes reaching an absolute condition and the subsequent traumatic return to reality afterwards. In his books he states he wept for almost a week after the experience and considered suicide as it was a tremendous shock to know that this whole reality is an illusion.

 
Metaphorically, reality is an illusion because our perception of it is subjective. If anything can be said to be real it ought to be reality. The illusion is when you believe you have access to objective reality in the form of knowledge. You live within your own subjective reality which is based on the underlying reality that we can merely perceive characteristics of. To me, this doesn't imply the reality we perceive is an illusion because it is based on something real. Its just more of a world we create to symbolize what we have learned through our interacting with the characteristics of a Reality we only have a limited view of. We will never be able to see the whole picture. If you feel you have found bliss in some secret wisdom in which you equate yourself with god consciousness, that is just another comforting "illusion" so you might as well enjoy it while you can. If god is all encompassing, then of course we are a part of god. But then nothing is distinguishable from god. If all we can perceive are illusions then why cry about the one we've created? Because he had to let go of the one he had before? I don't get it. We humans are so silly.
 
Do some research buddy. Enlightenment is a real human experience that has been verified through scientific investigation. It simply takes the ability to inhibit right parietal functioning.

Well, that sure sounds simple. Its amusing that one can attain enlightenment through prayer and meditation or an acquired brain injury. I'm not sure that what you refer to as enlightenment is what most religions do though.

I'm glad we have these kinds of people. They serve their function. But, I am sure glad not to be one of them because of the traits many of them seem to share. Pessimistic, Cycnical, Egoic, Narrow-minded, etc.

I'm not too sure why you've felt it neccesary to go on this rant against atheists. I mean, you always used to litter your posts with assumptions and insults, but this one came from left field. It just dilutes what you say, and always has. You were anatagonistic back when you used to post here and got banned, and nothing has changed. You're really not worth my time.
 
Sometimes I think true enlightenment is about moving on past this human experience in full. To me enlightenment means to become one with the source; Becoming one means to not even exist.
 
Well, that sure sounds simple. Its amusing that one can attain enlightenment through prayer and meditation or an acquired brain injury. I'm not sure that what you refer to as enlightenment is what most religions do though.



I'm not too sure why you've felt it neccesary to go on this rant against atheists. I mean, you always used to litter your posts with assumptions and insults, but this one came from left field. It just dilutes what you say, and always has. You were anatagonistic back when you used to post here and got banned, and nothing has changed. You're really not worth my time.

If I'm not worth your time why did you give it to me? Thanks for a good laugh. Hope you have found some happiness in this life.

If you are truly confused, I was comparing your illogical lack of belief in someone's experience of "enlightenment" to another thing people argue stupidly about its existence even though it can never be proven to not exist.

I was never banned as far as I know. I've been busy with life.
 
I somehow missed this thread since its inception, but scanning through it wish I had been able to both learn from and contribute to it. The initial post speaks deeply to my intuited steps on the path to enlightenment (many of which were mentioned in my book). Give me some time to catch up with every post, and I will try to condense my reply.
 
If I'm not worth your time why did you give it to me? Thanks for a good laugh. Hope you have found some happiness in this life.

If you are truly confused, I was comparing your illogical lack of belief in someone's experience of "enlightenment" to another thing people argue stupidly about its existence even though it can never be proven to not exist.

I was never banned as far as I know. I've been busy with life.

You are an incredible blowhard Turk.
 
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