Staying lucid in a hole?!

[Bitchniggaz]

Anyone noticed that the fullness and lucidity in a khole can vary alot?

I do ketamine or more lately 2flouro- K about 1-2x per month.
Been at this freqeuncy for a year or so.

Anyhow ive been getting more and more holes where i just black out and dont remember my trip.

I still only need about 100-150mg IM to hole so its not tolerance.
But sometimes i can just pre-fill a bunch of needles and stay in a hole all day.
And other days i just cant connect with the grid.
I just get messed up and blank out, not remembering anything.

Or is it just the nature of the dissiociastive state?
That its like a dream that doesnt always stick.

 

[vortech]

Anyone noticed that the fullness and lucidity in a khole can vary alot?

I do ketamine or more lately 2flouro- K about 1-2x per month.
Been at this freqeuncy for a year or so.

Anyhow ive been getting more and more holes where i just black out and dont remember my trip.

I still only need about 100-150mg IM to hole so its not tolerance.
But sometimes i can just pre-fill a bunch of needles and stay in a hole all day.
And other days i just cant connect with the grid.
I just get messed up and blank out, not remembering anything.

Or is it just the nature of the dissiociastive state?
That its like a dream that doesnt always stick.

I talk about this subject in my MXE book. I compare Lucid holing to Lucid dreaming (and provide some technical evidence to support this comparison). Here's a link to the book if you don't have it: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BznGre-0Bn01TGplanp0NmFGYWs )

Consciousness can be broken down into two components: awareness and arousal. The key to staying lucid is to keep arousal up when awareness decreases. K decreases awareness, which allows the subconscious, intuition, 'higher self', etc. to come to the foreground as it shuts up the 'monkey mind', but you need arousal to be able to experience what the lower level of consciousness is generating. A lot of my research with MXE translates to ketamine but I'm not sure about this part. I know that MXE decreases awareness and increases arousal (I quote research in the book that explains this). This may happen with ketamine as well, but the arousal component may be more muted.

My first tip that I mention in the book is to raise your tolerance a little bit (it may sound counter-intuitive). If you are only doing K 1-2x a month, you likely don't have a substantial baseline tolerance, so when you do enough for a deep hole you're more likely to black out. Maybe try dosing 2 or 3 days in a row. It is likely that the 2nd and/or 3rd day will be more lucid, as you will be able to handle a higher dose without blacking out. Maybe some sort of supplement can increase lucidity, like a low-grade stimulant. That's just an untested idea though. I'm not so familiar with the non-stimulant property of ketamine. I find it easier to to be lucid on equivalent doses of MXE. The higher the arousal the higher the lucidity and thus higher degree of ability to control it to your conscious will, and the lower the awareness the deeper the hole and thus the deeper the insight.
I hope this is a helpful start.

 

[Bitchniggaz]

Very good ansver Thanks

I def agree with your theory, ive noticed similar experiences as you.
When mxe was legal i did it almost every weekend for over a year.

It def has more of a push that keeps the mind around compared to the void of K.


When combining Ket with psychs its alot easier to be fully emerged.
However nowadays i prefer to just do half a gram mini binges to minimize the side effects.
I workout almost daily so i dont like to mong out for longer periods anymore.
Just a little dip here and there keeps me on a sane lever

 

[Solipsis]

Interesting but aren't there extra factors like amnesia? Some dissociatives like PCP, 3-MeO-PCP, MXE, PCE are relatively stimulating (probably monoamine involvement) compared to K, in fact by far most are - so that does account for the arousal. However diphenidine type drugs do seem to illustrate that your model is lacking, since there are other ways memory and cognition can be impaired than mere lack of arousal.

 

[vortech]

Interesting but aren't there extra factors like amnesia? Some dissociatives like PCP, 3-MeO-PCP, MXE, PCE are relatively stimulating (probably monoamine involvement) compared to K, in fact by far most are - so that does account for the arousal. However diphenidine type drugs do seem to illustrate that your model is lacking, since there are other ways memory and cognition can be impaired than mere lack of arousal.

The -phenidines are some mysterious creatures I have only explored a couple times through ephenidine, and my research on their mechanisms of action, how they differ from the aryls, is admittedly lacking. Do you have some insight to provide in this area?

 

[vortech]

I forgot to mention another interesting piece of information that I talk about in the book, that REM sleep also seems to parallel many of the conditions in the brain during lucid holing, as this is the only phase of sleep where arousal is high but awareness is still low. It is also a high alpha-frequency brainwave state generally, as is the highest-amplitude range of holes. When awareness gets above a certain threshold, depending on one's training on lucid dreaming, lucidity is achieved. For instance, some people have mentioned how sleeping with ambient music on during REM sleep can activate lucidity because the music will start to be a component of the dream and when the mind hears it, it makes the connection between the two worlds and notches up awareness a degree, reminding them they are in a dream and causing them to wake up still within the dream. This kind of stuff can apply to holes. In other words, holing with the right intensity of music creates more lucid awareness because it acts as a bridge between the worlds. Too intense music will prevent the hole from flourishing, and music that is not intense enough will decrease the definition of the hole at least when it is remembered afterwards.

My point with all this regarding this thread is that you can research lucid dreaming techniques to employ for holes. I have a section of my book entitled 'Helping you Remember' IIRC. It discusses techniques to help retain specific memories from holes to combat the amnesia component as Solipsis mentioned. Associating symbols is one key. Again, it parallels the same techniques for helping to remember dreams.

 

[phuckingnutz]

For instance, some people have mentioned how sleeping with ambient music on during REM sleep can activate lucidity because the music will start to be a component of the dream and when the mind hears it, it makes the connection between the two worlds and notches up awareness a degree, reminding them they are in a dream and causing them to wake up still within the dream. This kind of stuff can apply to holes. In other words, holing with the right intensity of music creates more lucid awareness because it acts as a bridge between the worlds. Too intense music will prevent the hole from flourishing, and music that is not intense enough will decrease the definition of the hole at least when it is remembered afterwards.

I'm new to holing, but during my "high dose IM DMT journey's I didn't listen to music, but I DID "ride" my window AC units motor hum from this world to the next and back again as the "bridge" and have started doing the same with K. I'm not really that into music...I love it, but not while I'm tripping....gets in the way, for me at least. Maybe just straight chants or hummzzzz would be cool, but music puts someone elses words into my tripping space and I can't seem to pay attention. Beides, with the continuous cacophany of crickets and tree frogs inside my head all the time, music would be out of the question anyway.
I have had major amnesia issues with smoked DMT and still do, but IM DMT gives me much better recall and has very similar. and some shared, head-space with K, for me, and the bridge...AC unit...allows for more total recall of my experience.
And with K it is with great reluctance that I follow it back at all...