Opioids Kratom Mega Thread v. 5

[bass_head808]

I need to get some Kratom here soon. Preparing for PST withdrawl. What should I be looking for while browsing for quality stuff? Am I wanting whole leafs ? Or get pure leaf in powdered form? I've heard stay away from extracts and headshop kratom. The only kratom ive tried is headshop kratom and it has been ok but not the greatest. Also is it worth my time to stock up on grapefruit juice as well? What are some of the best ways to make it more potent? I've got some capsules that contain cayenne pepper and other shit that are supposed to make the effects stronger.

 

[Znegative]

You know, I really wouldn't bother with the whole grapefruit juice, turmeric, and other potentiators. I've never really noticed any difference in terms of effects from taking them. I know some people will swear by it and I guess it probably has to do with individual brain chemistry, but I would first just try kratom by itself. I've never gotten leaf, just powder, from what I've read it's easier to deal with especially if you're making tea, and it probably absorbs faster. The only thing that I've heard that everyone seems to agree with is that kava and kratom have a really great synergy which I'd like to try.

If you're switching from opiates, IMO of the strains I've tried, Bali is the most traditional in terms of 'opioid' effects and sedation. It's kind of nice to have a few strands on hand to keep things fresh, but IME (which is limited to only a couple months now of using kratom in place of Buprenorphine), it's more important to just get good kratom, rather then strand, because after a while it all really does the same thing, as long as it's good. The only times I can notice a difference is if one strand is especially weak seeming, or if I just use one or two strands for a couple of weeks and then get a new one. The white vein maeng da is pretty good for it's stimulating properties, but at the right dosage it can be sedating too.

Also be careful not to dose to high on kratom, I made that mistake when I first started taking it, thinking that 'well if 7g has me feeling great, then 21g will have me nodding!'. Kratom does not work like that, and a kratom overdose is a very unpleasant think-feels kind of like experiencing a caffeine overdose while high and paranoid on marijuana, and it makes you dizzy, nauseous and shaky. It sucks. After a while I've become more tolerant to kratom so I can handle slightly higher dosages, but it seems there's really no use for me to take more then 6-7g (via the T&W method). With lower dosages I really believe you can enjoy it more, but it's the kind of thing you've got to experiment with. I still fuck up and try to get high off of it more often then I'd like, and I'm always underwhelmed. So I'm learning to be happy with what I do get from it, and it's a hell of a lot better then suboxone, IMO.

 

[bass_head808]

You know, I really wouldn't bother with the whole grapefruit juice, turmeric, and other potentiators. I've never really noticed any difference in terms of effects from taking them. I know some people will swear by it and I guess it probably has to do with individual brain chemistry, but I would first just try kratom by itself. I've never gotten leaf, just powder, from what I've read it's easier to deal with especially if you're making tea, and it probably absorbs faster. The only thing that I've heard that everyone seems to agree with is that kava and kratom have a really great synergy which I'd like to try.

If you're switching from opiates, IMO of the strains I've tried, Bali is the most traditional in terms of 'opioid' effects and sedation. It's kind of nice to have a few strands on hand to keep things fresh, but IME (which is limited to only a couple months now of using kratom in place of Buprenorphine), it's more important to just get good kratom, rather then strand, because after a while it all really does the same thing, as long as it's good. The only times I can notice a difference is if one strand is especially weak seeming, or if I just use one or two strands for a couple of weeks and then get a new one. The white vein maeng da is pretty good for it's stimulating properties, but at the right dosage it can be sedating too.

Also be careful not to dose to high on kratom, I made that mistake when I first started taking it, thinking that 'well if 7g has me feeling great, then 21g will have me nodding!'. Kratom does not work like that, and a kratom overdose is a very unpleasant think-feels kind of like experiencing a caffeine overdose while high and paranoid on marijuana, and it makes you dizzy, nauseous and shaky. It sucks. After a while I've become more tolerant to kratom so I can handle slightly higher dosages, but it seems there's really no use for me to take more then 6-7g (via the T&W method). With lower dosages I really believe you can enjoy it more, but it's the kind of thing you've got to experiment with. I still fuck up and try to get high off of it more often then I'd like, and I'm always underwhelmed. So I'm learning to be happy with what I do get from it, and it's a hell of a lot better then suboxone, IMO.

Thanks for the information. I really appreciate it! I might just give kratom a shot this time and stay away from the subutex. I've already have lope on hand to combat the runs and plan on getting L-Tyrosine and some other vitamins/supplements to help with the withdrawl. Any suggestions for the RLS? I'm thinking about ordering Elimidrol or withdrawl ease that way I can get all the ingredients to help combat withdrawl from one product. Looks like I will be searching for some good Red Bali Kratom and am ready to give this a shot again. I'm hoping I will be able to sleep and go to work with no major symptoms . My gf is fed up with my habit and it's causing to many problems and costing way too much$. I appreciate your response!

 

[mike.vick]

You know, I really wouldn't bother with the whole grapefruit juice, turmeric, and other potentiators.

8 oz of pure grapefruit makes the difference between 8 grams an 1.2 grams of kratom for me. I never use kratom w/o GFJ. Always 15-30min before and during the dosage. Makes kratom what it is to me.

 

[bass_head808]

8 oz of pure grapefruit makes the difference between 8 grams an 1.2 grams of kratom for me. I never use kratom w/o GFJ. Always 15-30min before and during the dosage. Makes kratom what it is to me.

Thanks for the input. I always drink grapefruit juice to help my PST be more potent. Which strain of Kratom do you like best and why?

 

[Znegative]

Really, well I'll have to try that, I only tried GFJ. That would certainly make things at least more economical.

 

[SunSpot]

Basshead, that's an excellent plan. I used kratom to quit pst, pods and latex (all eaten, all the same thing basically). Read my thread in sober living of you want to know more! How long are you using? I did one really heavy year, and the WD was the first from any substance for me. It was awful and the acute part lasted nearly three weeks, get some immodium and prepare not to sleep for days and days and days.

As for sources, always go with online stuff. Crushed or while leaf is usually 2X more potent than powder, as the finely powdered kratom oxidizes. One of my favs was the kratom king, sorry off that's vendor discussion but their prices were fair and shipping fast. But there's tons of vendors out there. One i didn't like was kraken, they didn't ship for ages. Jm2c

It's wonderful you want to quit, my own life is so much more worth living again. Opiods made me a sex less, pathetic constipated zombie. I'm a dude and it dropped my testosterone to practically zero, heck it even stopped hair loss. Opiods are more insidious than they appear ..

 

[Mycophile]

I think the grapefruit juice talk is just placebo.

It didn't work for me but if it works for others that's great.

 

[Mycophile]

Basshead, that's an excellent plan. I used kratom to quit pst, pods and latex (all eaten, all the same thing basically). Read my thread in sober living of you want to know more! How long are you using? I did one really heavy year, and the WD was the first from any substance for me. It was awful and the acute part lasted nearly three weeks, get some immodium and prepare not to sleep for days and days and days.

As for sources, always go with online stuff. Crushed or while leaf is usually 2X more potent than powder, as the finely powdered kratom oxidizes. One of my favs was the kratom king, sorry off that's vendor discussion but their prices were fair and shipping fast. But there's tons of vendors out there. One i didn't like was kraken, they didn't ship for ages. Jm2c

It's wonderful you want to quit, my own life is so much more worth living again. Opiods made me a sex less, pathetic constipated zombie. I'm a dude and it dropped my testosterone to practically zero, heck it even stopped hair loss. Opiods are more insidious than they appear ..

Wait did KRATOM drop your testosterone and stop your hair loss??

Or was that PST, Pods and Latex??

I only dose Kratom 2-3 days a week MAX but that's got me concerned if you are talking about Kratom...

I already know I need to cut down and have wondered when I feel mild Kratom withdrawals like today...resulting in laziness and lethargy, if that is due to decreased testosterone...or is it just mild WD??

They say that even drinking lowers you testosterone the day after when you are hungover and that's one reason we might act or feel like a bitch lol, so is it really that different??

 

[bass_head808]

Basshead, that's an excellent plan. I used kratom to quit pst, pods and latex (all eaten, all the same thing basically). Read my thread in sober living of you want to know more! How long are you using? I did one really heavy year, and the WD was the first from any substance for me. It was awful and the acute part lasted nearly three weeks, get some immodium and prepare not to sleep for days and days and days.

As for sources, always go with online stuff. Crushed or while leaf is usually 2X more potent than powder, as the finely powdered kratom oxidizes. One of my favs was the kratom king, sorry off that's vendor discussion but their prices were fair and shipping fast. But there's tons of vendors out there. One i didn't like was kraken, they didn't ship for ages. Jm2c

It's wonderful you want to quit, my own life is so much more worth living again. Opiods made me a sex less, pathetic constipated zombie. I'm a dude and it dropped my testosterone to practically zero, heck it even stopped hair loss. Opiods are more insidious than they appear ..

Hey thanks for the kind words and the support! I have been using PST for a year now.. I know what the withdrawl is like, I went a few days without any tea due to a package being lost and it was not fun. I have successfully quit opiates before using a quick suboxone taper. I have considered using the same method to kick the PST habit, but waiting 72 hours to dose the sub to avoid precipitated WD will be tough. I want to give Kratom a shot this time around and have read tons of posts and stories about people using it to successfully kick their opiate habit. I will check out your thread for sure and also have a couple questions for you (will shoot you an IM). Thanks

 

[Mistasolodolo]

Any harm in using Kratom the day after MDMA?

 

[CfZrx]

I think the grapefruit juice talk is just placebo.

It didn't work for me but if it works for others that's great.

Maybe so? Cimetidine on the other hand potentiates the shit outta methadone IME, and probably other opioids as well I just ordered a half kilo of Borneo Red Vein, and a half kilo of Malaysian White, and I'm super excited to have a new strain! (i usually just order the Borneo red.)

 

[CfZrx]

Hey thanks for the kind words and the support! I have been using PST for a year now.. I know what the withdrawl is like, I went a few days without any tea due to a package being lost and it was not fun. I have successfully quit opiates before using a quick suboxone taper. I have considered using the same method to kick the PST habit, but waiting 72 hours to dose the sub to avoid precipitated WD will be tough. I want to give Kratom a shot this time around and have read tons of posts and stories about people using it to successfully kick their opiate habit. I will check out your thread for sure and also have a couple questions for you (will shoot you an IM). Thanks

kratom can definitely help you kick a habit.

 

[Snake_Eyes]

Maybe so? Cimetidine on the other hand potentiates the shit outta methadone IME, and probably other opioids as well I just ordered a half kilo of Borneo Red Vein, and a half kilo of Malaysian White, and I'm super excited to have a new strain! (i usually just order the Borneo red.)

I've never had much luck with WGFJ but cimetidine has definitely worked with kratom. However due to my tolerance to kratom now it hasn't been noticeable for quite some time.

 

[Mycophile]

Maybe so? Cimetidine on the other hand potentiates the shit outta methadone IME, and probably other opioids as well I just ordered a half kilo of Borneo Red Vein, and a half kilo of Malaysian White, and I'm super excited to have a new strain! (i usually just order the Borneo red.)

I'm also not sure that the difference between strains isn't mostly placebo either.

I try to convince myself that they feel different but more and more I'm not sure there is much of one.

I remember Sekio did one study that seemed to show they all have similar alkaloids.

But tons of people think they are different.

I think the only way to know is to do a blind taste test: have someone put some in a bag without you knowing what it is and take it and see if you can guess based on how it feels.

I've never had access to cimetidine so I don't know.

Is that something that is only prescription or can it be found online or OTC?

 

[mike.vick]

^^^ cimetidine is brand name "Tagamet" a stomach-acid pill OTC. Be careful tho- lots of interactions and it increseases estrogen I think

 

[kleinerkiffer]

Iirc cimetidine is a H2- antihistamine that decreases the production of stomach acid and inhibits quite a few CYP450 isozymes, but it has a few rather nasty side effects and I think it can induce a delirium

 

[Znegative]

I'm also not sure that the difference between strains isn't mostly placebo either.

I try to convince myself that they feel different but more and more I'm not sure there is much of one.

I remember Sekio did one study that seemed to show they all have similar alkaloids.

But tons of people think they are different.

I think the only way to know is to do a blind taste test: have someone put some in a bag without you knowing what it is and take it and see if you can guess based on how it feels.

This is kind of how I feel about it, from my short experience with kratom it seems that switching a strain if you've been using one for a couple of weeks will produce sometimes different, or 'fresher' effects, but after a few days, I really can't tell much of a difference. It seems that some strains are more tolerable at higher dosages, like I can only take so much Bali before it starts making me feel shitty but with maeng da I can take a lot more. Also does anyone know what alkaloid is responsible for Kratoms stimulant effects? Most of the time I only feel an opioid type buzz, but every once in a while I'll get the stimulation if I dose just right and it's actually pretty distinct, much more comparable to something like 'amphetamine-light'.

 

[Soulgasm]

^Yeah some of the more stimulating strains are almost too much so for me to be comfortable at higher doses. Definitely not all placebo effect. LOLz @ opioids stopping hair loss. Never heard that one.

 

[Mycophile]

This is kind of how I feel about it, from my short experience with kratom it seems that switching a strain if you've been using one for a couple of weeks will produce sometimes different, or 'fresher' effects, but after a few days, I really can't tell much of a difference. It seems that some strains are more tolerable at higher dosages, like I can only take so much Bali before it starts making me feel shitty but with maeng da I can take a lot more. Also does anyone know what alkaloid is responsible for Kratoms stimulant effects? Most of the time I only feel an opioid type buzz, but every once in a while I'll get the stimulation if I dose just right and it's actually pretty distinct, much more comparable to something like 'amphetamine-light'.

I'm not sure what alkaloid causes the stimulant effect but it is pretty consistent for me when I dose properly and it is actually my favorite thing about Kratom over the opioid effect and whenever I am unlucky enough NOT to get it as a part of my Kratom high I am disappointed.

I would say that a good 80% or more of the time at SOME POINT in my 4 hour or so Kratom high I will get stimulant effect which may last a little while or it may last almost the entire experience.

Of course I drink a lot of coffee which potentiates it and I think adds to the stimulant effect but I've also become a big fan of combining Kratom with Prolintane or Dexadrine for the added stimulant effect (and I often have Phenibut in the mix as well)...but in reality...I think Kratom dosed properly and a little caffeine on the side will reliably give me that stimulant effect.

Generally lowering dosing gives me more of the stimulant effect and higher dosing more of the sedative effect which is pretty much unanimously agreed upon.