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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

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G_Chem said:
Great job man!

And the interesting thing is that often people describe black nasty impure MDMA/MDA to be just as potent or more potent than their pure counterparts.

Excited to see the results! It's also good to know you've piqued the interest of one of the lab techs that'll help us.

So the black MDMA, was it oily? Any crystals or what consistency? Just curious. My guess is that the chemist had leftover precursor oil and either overgassed during salting or torched his product somewhere along the line. Either way it's disgusting people sell it like that but then again there's a reason why...

If you notice MDMA is a drug that gets sold with more synthesis byproducts than most other illicit drugs on the market. Based on my reading and anecdotal experience it seems that MDMA is still fairly effective when impure depending on the impurities, but I also believe it misses that magic that pure MDMA can take you to.

Back in like 2011-2012 I was preaching about how most impurities took away from that "magic" feel but no one believed me then.

-GC
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It's this single oily, wet, black chunk. It leaves droplets on the inside of baggy. I didn't touch it, but it just looks like your average recrystallized chunk of MDMA but wet and black.
 
^^^Good point.

Honestly this brings up something I've been thinking about. I know people hold safrole as the holy grail and shit on piperonal but piperonal has been used long before 2010 and based on Glubras anecdotes it seems good product can be had from piperonal.

I think this problem is solely a PMK glycidate problem, it could be made from safrole or piperonal..

It all boils down to the fact PMK glycidate is much easier to smuggle compared to drums of oil that have a unique scent.

-GC
 
All of the md I've taken was Dutch sourced and other than the last role that caused my LTC(which I still think was dosage related) was the amazing, pupil dilation, everyone's my friend md where you just know it's the real deal. One roll I had(that again, was amazing!)where I kept it at 500mg throughout the night gave me horrid brain zaps and restless legs for three days. My point is, I find interesting that some people theorize that when it's manufactured with PMK glycidate, the product is more or less inferior when from my personal experience, this is certainly not the case.
 
^^Just curious what your average dosages were during that time?


Also Glubra, when you analyzed those two samples containing MDMA tartrate was it possible to tell if it was MDMA bitartrate at all?

If anyone remembers Shunenja he was quite the outspoken critic of this thread and made the argument that it could possibly be MDMA bitartrate.

If this were the case then it'd make sense why the dosages have jumped so high in recent years.

-GC
 
@G_Chem I rolled somewhere between 10-20 times over the course of three months. Each time was at least 250mg to start and likely ending up being 750-1000mg by the end of the night. I did this several times and other than the one time with the zaps and restless legs, and another where I accidentally mixed with 5-htp, my comedowns were only mild since I always used 5-htp the following day but even still, I never recall waking up feeling terrible. My LTC causing dose was about 1.75 grams over the course of five hours, such a terrible decision that has come with horrible at the time unforeseen consequences.
 
Friend sent me the NMR results for 4 new samples he submitted. Still only reporting some info, the person who works at the organization is trying to pry more information out of the NMR lab for us, he's also not sure why they aren't sending more.

1.) (silver/grey)
MDMA HCL 66%
Mannitol 12% ("Mannitol is a type of sugar alcohol which is also used as a medication. As a sugar, it is often used as a sweetener in diabetic food, as it is poorly absorbed from the intestines. As a medication, it is used to decrease pressure in the eyes, as in glaucoma, and to lower increased intracranial pressure.") strange huh?

2.) purple
MDMA HCL 72%

3.) pink
MDMA HCL 79%

4.) the black, wet sample
MDMA HCL 53%

Again, none of these 4 samples reach close to the 91% MagicDMA. Especially interested in what is leftover in sample 4, assuming its a bunch of precursor, that information could shed light on how it was made.
 
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@Dany- While your effects sound in line with what should be expected from good MDMA, the dosages do not.

I often hear about the typical doses taken in certain parts of Europe and can't believe my ears. Many people blame it on cultural differences but people in the US like get to get royally fucked all the same.

I've been taking MDMA for ~14yrs now and I've never taken more than 250mg in a night let alone as a starting dose. I once accidentally dropped 180mg (forgot to split off my booster) and was so blown away in the beginning it was uncomfortable, projectile vomited like 10ft then began chatting random shit for the rest of the night.

It's my belief the discrepancy in dosages between certain areas of the world has to do with purity/synthesis over culture.

@Hilo- Great job posting those man. So question, can someone out of country send these people samples via post for testing or is that too sketch? They could really help us out, even just with percentages and basic cuts.

Mannitol is a fairly common ingredient in ecstasy tablets used as a binder. Not overly surprising to find it, my guess is some producer out there who also makes ecstasy used it as a non-active cut for their "loose product" aka non pressed crystal/powder.

Any anecdotes for any of those batches in terms of effects? I find it interesting each batch was unique colors like that. I'm most curious of the pink batch, as pink can be an indicator of a certain synthesis route at times.

-GC
 
@G_Chem I realize that the dosages sound insane for what would be good mdma. The 250mg would always be easily enough to start with all the amazing effects I mentioned true of real E. My outrageous doses had to do with me attempting to use the drug as a mental escape. I've always been one to dose on the heavier side of everything in an attempt to feel more, this proved ineffective with the molly but since the effects remained amazing and very close to what they were originally, I kept going up. For this reason I don't feel the product was inferior.

You mentioned how you're very sensitive to the effects of magnesium l-threonate, it sounds like that's also true with md which could explain your vomiting reaction to 180mg. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just think this could be a possibility.
 
Its strange, I had never vomited from MDMA before, but about a year and a half ago I took 100mg of MDMA and vomited from it, it was quite good MDMA. About ~15 minutes after I vomited, we were in the crowd just dancing, and then my girlfriend also had to go vomit (from the same dose and has also never vomited from it before).

High doses/very good MDMA seems to correlate with vomiting. I spoke with the medical team at the festival about it and they said that throwing up from MDMA usually means that.

I also once knew this guy who was incredibly irresponsible with drugs, probably the most irresponsible of anyone I've ever known, he would take 500+ mg at once, and then puke his brains out 30 minutes later like it was nothing.
 
I used to always vomit on the comeup, or dry heave. This would usually happen about 15 minutes after dosing, during that "rocket launch" phase during the come-up. Then, I would be fine and would not vomit or feel sick again. Interestingly, I never vomit on the comeup with the sleepy stuff.

I'm in a sort of rut with my experimenting right now, because I have not found any other products to sample that look worth my time. The color/quality of most of the stuff I have browsed looks horrible.
 
Hi guys,

I have somewhat of a story and a goodbye.

Two weeks ago, I consumed some MDMA in pills some being golden thunderdomes & crystal and to my absolute surprise (don't know whether it's the NAC & vitamin c I've been taking as an experiment to see if it potent the MDMA in the weeks leading up) but everyone else that consumed a golden thunderdome (240mg) felt this as well and we are experienced in taking 200-250mg upfront each time.

15-20 minute come up and absolutely floored, I could not believe how quick it took and everyone was on the floor infront of the aircon completely out of it and to be honest I felt that really intense MDMA feeling again, I was happier then normal MDMA for sure and it lasted a long time.

But unfortunately, not sure what happened whether it was the crystal or the pills but over the night consuming 500mg half being crystal which I have done before plenty of times.. the sickness I normally felt after MDMA got worse, alot worse.

The next day I actually felt fine, little nausea but didn't vomit or anything to my surprise, the day after I was very dizzy, depressed, random out bursts of crying, confusion and couldn't stand up or eat anything. Over the next 7 days I experienced still being dizzy / lightheaded and I actually layed down because when I sat up or walked around my head felt a strange pressure which also went down my upper neck.

I had an ambulance called because at a random time my heart rate went through the roof and I felt like I was going to pass out.
However all tests including ecg , bloods, xray and blood pressure came back as normal.

I had been too emergency twice on my own in the following days but still nothing they could tell me about feeling the way I did, I told them about the MDMA as well but they seemed to think nothing of it. But this did really made me realize how much I value this life and how something so little could cause so much damage .. I honestly thought I was going to die.

So i'm giving it up, I can no longer do this anymore with the MDMA currently or how I feel. Those thunderdome pills reminded me of the original MDMA, I think that good stuff is out there being made but majority isn't what it used too be for one reason or another.

A few days later it randomly disappeared and I could go back to work but it's a reminder that things can go wrong without warning.
Maybe my body has just had enough, maybe it's the MDMA, maybe it's something else but it certainly isn't like taking 100mg back then and rolling for hours on end with little comedown if any at all.

How times have changed, goodbye MDMA.
 
Hilopsilo said:
1.) (silver/grey)
MDMA HCL 66%
Mannitol 12%

2.) purple
MDMA HCL 72%

3.) pink
MDMA HCL 79%

4.) the black, wet sample
MDMA HCL 53%
Click to expand...
It would be prudent to ask them whether they mean 3,4-MDMA HCl or 2,3-MDMA HCl
A question about the chirality would not hurt either.

The remainders beg many questions
 
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What have any of you heard about the methods currently being used in central Europe? Is good product being produced there or is it similar to what is coming out of the Netherlands?
 
indigoaura said:
What have any of you heard about the methods currently being used in central Europe? Is good product being produced there or is it similar to what is coming out of the Netherlands?
Click to expand...
t-BOC-MDMA is the newest popular precursor.
 
@Dany- Well that 180mg dose was a long time ago, I've only started using magnesium l-threonate the past year and a half or so.

You do seem like a really intelligent guy and I wasn't there so I gotta believe you.

Just feel there is a huge discrepancy between average doses in certain areas compared to others. Typical average dose has always been 100-150mg until 2010 and beyond, 180mg dose of MDMA I typically come across would have most people puking on the comeup. I'm just under the impression there is differences beyond societal pressures.

@Indigo/Glubra- I'm still of the belief that PMK-glycidate is still the main precursor being used but indeed some t-BOC-MDMA has been found as of lately.

After reading that mixmag article where dude went undercover (someone posted it here many pages before) it seems possible t-BOC-MDMA could be the new precursor on the block as it could be made into MDMA via one step but I still put my $ on PMK glycidate.

The reason being too, in that article the guy he's interviewing doesn't describe details but does say it's a one pot that is intricate and beautifully thought out. This would also imply PMK-glycidate over t-BOC..


So I've been reading through the Hive archives and it's been interesting to read from the chemists point of view how batches can vary. Even in the late 90's/early 2000's we've been dealing with this.

I've tried a few times now to summarize what I've learned but it's too hard.. On top of that many of those methods aren't even used much large scale these days.

What I will say is that chemistry is FAR from a perfect science and there are road bumps that have gotten in the way of these clandestine researchers.

If anyone ever has questions on older synthesis methods and how they compare to each other just ask.

-GC
 
@G_Chem Gotcha this is very interesting how several people feel nausea with quality md at doses way below what I used. I only recall two rolls both dosed on the much higher side that gave me any nausea and the spells lasted no more than 15 minutes at most. I'd say you're definitely onto something with dosage discrepancy throughout different areas. Perhaps your md and the others on here agreeing with what you said about vomiting around 180mg, was made with safrole where this is a known side effect & maybe I experienced practically none because mine was most likely from PMK-glycidate.

By the way, as you know I wrote a detailed post a few months back on my theory regarding mercury being the cause of an LTC, you told me you thought it was acrylamide. After more research on the subject and finding out that some of my other physical symptoms weren't related to a slight spinal misalignment that started strangely around the same time as the following symptoms which wasn't until about 9 months into the LTC: tingling fingers and feet, random aches and soreness that comes and goes, and an itchy prickly sensation throughout my body the first few minutes after starting my cardio, I've come to agree with you. Something else that I feel further validates this theory: I had received a brain mri early last year for unexplainable headaches I had for awhile, I had rolled several times in the past two months.. in fact I rolled the night before getting the mri, it came back completely normal. Fast forward to early this year when my neurologist was attempting to find an explanation as to why my nervous system was acting up, he ordered a brain mri. I knew how the one the previous year found nothing but said what the hell, why not. Results come back with a few extremely tiny white spots in a few frames. They were in the middle of the brain and slightly around it, the poison acrylamide has been shown to cause midbrain lesions.

Thanks man! & I'll further describe my rolls so that anyone reading can know with as much certainty as possible that this was true md. Electronic music sounded deeper than anything imaginable in an amazing way while causing pupil dilation, jaw clenching, desire to tell everyone that you love them, completely numb to negativity and only able to feel positive emotions overwhelmingly, touch and vision were both enhanced but not in a hallucinatory way. I'd say this is enough to definitely conclude this was the real md we all love.
 
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