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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

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^^^Nope, and to be honest I don't think I ever will. That's the hardest part of all this "research" is that much of it will likely remain speculation for quite some time.

The reason I never will and the reason most others won't take on a similar challenge is because when you only get a limited number of rolls in this lifetime it's hard to justify using so many of them in the name of something that quite frankly isn't as important to me as just living my life.

Now if I did take up this double blind challenge, it would take me at least two years, but more like 4-5 for me to complete. Again not time that either I nor anyone else have.. It couldn't be pushed along any faster or else tolerance would become a major potential issue.

Then there is the fact my above summary is a generalization, MDMA can be made from safrole and feel very close to mdma made from other precursors if the purity is high enough.

If you read what I wrote and come away with the notion there is two distinct groups of mdma (i.e. Safrole mdma vs not-from-saf mdma..) then you need to go back to post 1 of mine..

That's problem number 2. There is no distinct groups because each batch is unique and two batches could be made from safrole but if one is 60% pure with the rest being impurities VS 99% pure, there is going to be quite the difference between those two despite the same precursor being used to start.

I think all we will ever get from this is a rough idea, this is never going to be an exact science simply due to the factors I outlined plus others I haven't. Science will always have these barriers and if we say to ourselves "welp I can't setup a reliable double blind, not even worth trying.." then no one would ever get anywhere in progressing our current knowledge base.

-GC
 
Can someone make a v.2 of this thread? I feel it's time but idk if I got the time for it. We just need a new thread with the first post outlining some of our good discoveries here. (All experiences and anecdotes related to certain batches being of utmost importance.)

-GC
 
G_Chem said:
^^^Nope, and to be honest I don't think I ever will. That's the hardest part of all this "research" is that much of it will likely remain speculation for quite some time.

The reason I never will and the reason most others won't take on a similar challenge is because when you only get a limited number of rolls in this lifetime it's hard to justify using so many of them in the name of something that quite frankly isn't as important to me as just living my life.

-GC
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Hahaha, true. It would be just the waste of material.
I probably, the one who can manage such a blind test, because I am those 10% lucky person who not build tolerance to MDMA very quickly. I can take a roll 1 in a week or 2 within a half-year without building tolerance.

But I can never return to a feeling of first trips , aybe first 2 or 3.

And if someone would told me that this first trips was so perfect because of Safrol-oil as precursors I would totally belived it.

For some reason as you correctly said before not only every batch is different , but every other trip on a same batch could feel different.
 
but every other trip on a same batch could feel different.
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There are limits to the variation that you are going to feel within one batch. I say this as someone who has dealt a lot with the same batch. Yes, it can be different, but not THAT different. Experiences within the same batch are fairly consistent, in my personal experience. Set and setting only changes so much.

G_Chem, what do you want to have included in a V2?
 
^^^I agree, while there is variation between experiences, I feel the average person can feel similarities from one experience to the next on a particular batch of mdma.

And it'd be cool if it had some of the more important posts throughout this thread quoted. Your post when you first came in regarding your experience with mdma that has md-p2pol as an impurity is a good example. Glubra's 3 analysis plus any experiences he has posted as well. Maybe the OP from LeJunk. Whatever you feel is important.. I can help once it's made with any additional editing.

Even if we don't do some elaborate first post I feel we should still start a v2 regardless cuz this thread is too big for most to actually go through and great information is getting lost I'm sure.

-GC
 
I think what really makes that article interesting is that it casts light on how oxytocin release is a significant factor in the feelings associated with MDMA. So, in relation to our conversation, we should also think about factors/contaminants that may inhibit oxytocin release or impact the pituitary gland.
 
That was a good read. And I agree oxytocin should be looked at more closely than things like serotonin release. I've done quite a bit of research on the relationship between oxytocin, mdma and the therapeutic effects. I have a thread on other site with me connecting a lot of dots.

Oxytocin in my belief is the biggest reason mdma causes bonding and it's what gives us that "love" feeling everybody is chasing. It's sad serotonin has been the primary focus of research.

-GC
 
similar question. a friend had some tabs that were supposed to be molly based. said he took one stayed up all night and the entire next day but never experienced a rolling sensation. decided to try it. took one and it felt like it wanted to kick in but never did. about 3 hours later take a 2nd. After about an hour definitely start to feel something. at first i got a headache and felt weird but after about 15 minutes it started to feel like a liquid was released inside my head and slowly spreading. Thats when i experienced a rolling like sensation. I laid there drowning in the music and enjoying the journey. It was best with my eyes closed everytime i opened them the feeling would slowly fade. It was really intense but this state only lasted about 45 minutes and it was over. I didnt experience the normal feeling of rolling, i didnt wanna chew gum(in fact i noticed myself just clenching my jaw shut tight, didnt want to smoke, and was actually a lil drowsy/tired rather than up and active, and my pupils did not dialate. when i first started taking it 15 years ago everything was so soft and it completely enhanced my mood. I would feel like i was on a roller coaster and my eyes would roll in the back of my head. someone said that feeling comes from a heroin based x and not MDMA but it sas everything i imagined MDMA would feel like... since moving to TX ive never experienced that feeling. some have given me a similar experience but nothing like what im im used to. could i now be immune due to using too much 15 years ago? Other people tell me they roll but its not anything like im used to even when taking a couple its always very subtle. opinions?
 
IMightBe420, if you did not test your pills or send them to a lab, there is no telling what you consumed. It could have been anything. There are so many research chemicals and adulterants...

This thread is specifically discussing how MDMA varies from batch to batch even when a lab shows that it is MDMA. You might not have even had MDMA.

The old rumors that ecstasy was "heroin based" are false. There is no "speed based" or "heroin based" ecstasy. In your case, you may have just had a bunk pill. Pills are either MDMA or they are not. Even when they are MDMA, as we are discussing here in this thread, there are variations.

Invest in a testing kit, or send samples to a lab before you consume. Then you can start to unravel what is going on with your experiences.

PLUR

P.S. (18 years ago, there was great ecstasy in Texas)
 
^^^This.

Those experiences sound like something entirely different than MDMA, likely some research chemical.

I second the notion of a test kit to better determine what you actually had.

-GC
 
What is wrong with the MDMA available today? V.2

Since the other thread has outgrown itself over the years, it's time to start fresh. Give me time to edit in all the best discoveries and posts from both that first thread as well as elsewhere. But otherwise continue the conversation here please! :)

Link to the old thread below...

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/791073-What-is-wrong-with-the-MDMA-available-today

--------------------------------------------

Glubrahnum said:
Guys,

Recently, I observed the effects of various oral doses of brownish "Dutch MDMA Crystals" in 4 different VIRGIN subjects (30 - 60 year old) in a house-party social setting.

By "VIRGIN", I mean people that have never used MDMA before in their life nor any amphetamines, cocaine nor any anti-depressants nor RC.
The crystalline powder was determined to contain MDxx by an immunoassay testkit, after 10^-6 mass dilution in distilled water.
The immunoassay testkit is highly specific to MDMA, MDA and MDEA but it does not allow the differentiation between these 3 compounds.

The 4 oral doses were 100mg, 100mg, 130mg and 150mg.
The onset of effects happened within 30min of ingestion and was characterized by visible sleepiness, in all four cases.
15min into the onset, the sleepiness suddenly receded and remaining effects lasted for 3-4h.
No PUPIL DILATION ( mydriasis ) was observed for 4 hours in any of the subjects !!!
A slight lockjaw ( trismus ) was observed IN ONLY ONE subject (a 38y, 85kg male and the 150mg dose).

SUBJECTIVE EFFECTS after the onset:
Feeling of general well being in all subjects
Analgesia of chronic back pain in one subject.
Report of sobering up, in one subject who was drinking ethanol for two hours before ingesting the "Dutch MDMA crystals".
Reports of euphoria and feeling of having energy ...but all subjects were sitting on a couch for 4h.
Lucid but introverted ( "mongy" ) behavior in all subjects.
Reports of hot/cold flashes and transient sweatiness of extremities slightly after the onset.
No outward talkativeness in all subjects.
No unusual empathy towards others visible from outside in all subjects.
Report of increased tactile sensations from one subject.
Reports of changed visual acuity in two subjects.

Is the above familiar to anyone here?
Any feedback is welcomed...
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indigoaura said:
I posted in the other thread, but I wanted to post here as well. Thank you again to everyone contributing to this discussion.

Your observations line up precisely with my own experience, as well as my time-line. I have had two primary sources for MDMA since 2000. The first source involved local, pressed pills. I had this source from 2000-2005. The characteristics of this source were: 15-20 minute come-up, a "rush," extreme empathy and love, fantastic sex, mydriasis, jaw tremors, eye-shaking, enhanced music, enhanced tactile sensations, "magic." Yes, these pills were sent to ecstasydata and were tested as MDMA. The comedown was generally 1-2 days of moodiness or "emo" depression.

In 2005, my supplier quit. Also, at that time, there was a large bust in the area and a major distributor was shut down. I had to turn to non-local sources and began to receive powder instead of pills. The characteristics of the powder were: longer 30-45 minute come-up, sleepy feeling, feeling cold, feeling introverted, being in a good mood but no rush of empathy and love, lack of energy. Sometimes there are eye jitters, but as someone else mentioned they don't feel "good." Everything is less intense. The comedown/after-effects is physical with bouts of nausea/indigestion/dizziness but no emo Tuesday. The after-effects last longer. These capsules was also sent to a lab and tested to be MDMA, but with an impurity from the manufacturing process (1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-2-propanol) (http://www.chemicalbook.com/Chemical...CB92456152.htm ).

521097-97-2.gif


Obviously, as someone who has a long history of use, there is a question of tolerance. However, other people I know have identical observations and an identical time-line. I also find it odd that my tolerance would magically develop at the same exact time that the supplier changed.

I want answers. I would love to have access to the same product I had access to from 2000-2005. If there were more complex and accurate tests, I would absolutely send in samples. Although both products were tested as MDMA they feel like completely different products and have totally different profiles.

Thank you for investigating this.
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Glubrahnum said:
BTW: I detected traces of Fentanyl in one megadosed X pill lately 8o ...very weak signal, but unmistakable.
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When asked what impurities would result from PMK-glycidate, Glubra responded with the following..

Glubrahnum said:
Nasty stuff: Glycidol, Glycidamide, Glycidic acid and various prop-2-enoyl compounds which can be aminated to such things as Acrylamide
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Ionized said:
Ok recent experience with current MDMA dutch salt. Subject has had numerous experiences with MDMA since the 90's and is familiar with the "good old MDMA".

Substance: MDMA Dutch salt advertised at least 84% pure (salt is tan colored rocks).
Reagent Tests: Marquis fizzles directly to black (no purple). Mandelin straight to black. Mecke straight to dark green. Simon straight to cobalt blue. Everything looks good to go.

00:00 - On a totally empty stomach ingestion of 140 mg put inside a capsule with some water.
00:40 - Come up begins of medium intensity.
01:00 - full effect: extreme calmness and relaxation but zero uplifting energy. Basically just a strong chill-out feeling accompanied by drowsiness and lot of yawning, too. Seems like pure serotonin release. Pupil dilation is average. It's there but not very strong. Music is enhanced but not even half as much as expected. Absolutely zero feelings of bonding or increased empathy.
03:00 - Effects start diminishing.
03:15 - Comedown begins.
04:00 - pretty much every effect is gone. At this point subject feels almost totally sober. Pupil dilation is much less but remains noticeable.
09:30 - Pupil dilation is completely back to normal. Afterglow is minimal and mostly feels like a small dose of Xanax. Lasts for about a day.

Based on the above observation the effects of the pure Dutch MDMA salt were very different than the typical happy, uplifting, bonding, characteristics of MDMA. Lets not forget that this MDMA passed all 4 reagent tests.
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G_Chem said:
Biscuit I'm glad you made that statement as while there has been changes in the past and various "kinds" of MDMA over the years, the comparison between those was far closer than the crap we see nowadays. I've been trying to say that in posts past but you said it so much better, really the huge change to sub quality product didn't occur until after that drought.

When I think of different kinds and eras of MDMA I categorize them as such..

Before 1990 - (Type 1A)
1990 to late 90's - (Type 2)
Late 90's to late 00's - (Type 1B)
2010 onward - (Type 3)

(Note: Type 1A and 1B were likely comparable in effect and synthesis but probably varied due to standard dosage differences between the two eras.) Of course the above is just a generalization and things always vary based on current connections and location.

The first 3 eras were all considered high quality experiences by most who had them, just each varied from the one before it in ways that could be considered neutral. The fourth, our current situation, should be compared against all others as it's the only time a majority of the users have felt these negative effects and experiences.

-GC
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-GC
 
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Wow, I didn't think I'd end up eating my words, but here I am, I fully admit I was wrong. I think I may have some useful information here, I'll try to keep this short but it might be a bit longwinded:

So I attended a 3 day music festival this past weekend, and I had not consumed MDMA is over 1 whole year. From the same person I always get my MDMA, a trusted close friend who has a complete test kit with every reagent, as well as access to the festivals free drug testing service that uses $50,000 mass spectrometers.

I purchased MDMA from him for me and my ~dozen friends. It was a brown, sandy, crystalline texture with the faint smell of safrole (not the overwhelming smell of safrole that comes with the very amber crystalline MDMA). I took exactly 100mg of it after taking LSD earlier in the day. It began with a very, very jangly comeup. Lots of anxiety, pins and needles in my limbs, and the extreme electrocution shock went through my left arm as it did the previous year leaving me stunned. This actually prompted me to go to medical and explain that this electric shock happened the previous year, they said not to worry about it since things like heart attack/stroke are a different type of pain and this sounded more nerve related. I also felt it gave me a bit of a stomach cramp, I can't be sure as LSD sometimes does this to me, but it seemed to get worse with the MDMA.

Anyhow, after the lots of sitting down and standing up, I finally got past the comeup and rejoined my friends. But something felt like it was missing. I was certainly rolling hard, but I was sweating a lot, didn't feel like dancing super hard, and was very chatty. So chatty that I actually lost my voice by the morning. All of my friends agreed the MDMA felt both weak and slightly different, a lot of them went to bed early or ended up taking a second capsule of 100mg. It wasn't just me, all of us felt the MDMA wasn't great. Not fake or extremely adulterated, just not great MDMA. We couldn't really put our finger on it. It didn't leave us with any weird comedown or anything. A bit of jaw clenching which is not normal for me. I suspected cut with speed, but was confused as my friend who I got it from always tests MDMA rigorously.

In the morning, I took a sample of that MDMA to the drug testing tent. I explained everything to them and they loaded it up into the mass spectrometer. I'm not even sure how that thing works but it produced a graph of some sort that told them what was in the substance. And to my surprise, it came up as something like 96% pure MDMA with trace amounts of other things that they said was common and very negligible. They asked if I was surprised by the results, but I said I wasn't sure, as it had been a long time since I last took MDMA (in my head I was worried we had all finally lost the magic maybe). They briefly explained that they aren't sure why, and it has happened on previous tests that MDMA comes up as perfectly pure but the subjective effects are different/diminished, they suggested its likely to do with how it was made but they were sorry they didn't have more information for me.

I then went to talk the friend who gave me the MDMA, I'll call him C. When I spoke with him, he explained that he felt the same and has experienced this same thing as he picks up lots of different batches of MDMA all the time; they all test as fantastic MDMA but some is just better than the rest. He felt bad that our night hadn't gone completely as planned because of it, and brought out a baggy labeled "OG MDMA" and gave it to me. He said he saves small samples of the extremely good MDMA batches he comes across. He said when he brought it to the drug testing tent it tested the same as the other stuff; upper 90's percent pure with trace amounts of what is likely precursor. Its appearance was translucent, full crystals with absolutely no smell at all. I was unsure about this as I'm used to the very good MDMA having a strong safrole smell and being amber in color. He did a quick reagent test of it to show me for the peace of mind that it was MDMA, and sure enough strong reaction for MDMA.

We all took ~100mg of this "OG MDMA" (I took it on top of LSD as I did 2 nights earlier). And it may have been the absolute hardest I have ever rolled in my entire life. As the comeup began I was in the crowd, but I was surprised, the anxiety wasn't really there. The pins and needles I get sometimes were not there either, the music started sounding more and more intense. But I didn't feel hot, sweaty and light headed like the other night. I entered this state of absolute bliss and euphoria, it was like nirvana. My stomach started gurgling in the most euphoric way, like it was rearranging itself into optimal position, I almost thought I was going to shit myself! I actually had to remove myself from the crowd with my girlfriend to walk around to make sure I hadn't died in the crowd and gone to heaven, I kid you not, it felt too ​perfect it nearly became scary. It was so transparent yet I was SO HIGH at the same time, it was like some magical switch in my brain had been flicked on. When I finally returned to the crowd, the MDMA was potentiating the LSD visuals to such an extreme that the stage visuals were expanding 3d onto the surrounding trees, these beautiful spinning infinite fractals being pumped out by the speakers. It wasn't even in the MDA visual way, it was like the LSD and MDMA fit together like perfect puzzle pieces and unleashed some hidden power within me. The dozen of us were howling and dancing our asses off, kissing and hugging each other. It was almost like an entirely different drug. It was the same idea, but this was on a new level. I had maybe rolled this hard in the past, something about the way the music sounded and the LSD visuals being potentiated, but I had always chalked it up to set & setting as I hadn't experienced 2 different batches of MDMA in such a close time frame.

I ran into C later that night and we immediately started discussing this. Here is what he said to me; "This shit completely baffles me, all of the batches test the same with $50,000 equipment, yet this kind is like pure magic. The best I can do these days to get it reliably is go by this specific appearance when I pick it up; big, scentless translucent crystals that test as pure MDMA. It's a crude method, but I don't know what else to do. It doesn't make any sense.". All we could conclude was that the stuff is pure fucking magic, no drug could possibly compare.

The whole crew was out the entire night through to the morning having a blast off of just 100mg. Not a SINGLE negative effect from it. No sweating, no paranoia, no comedown (for anyone, i don't get them anyway), no jaw clenching, just pure bliss, dancing and love. It was FUCKING INSANE.

When I woke up the next day, feeling amazing, I ran to see if the drug testing was still open even if the festival was now over. I got there and they had already packed up and left, I had brought with me a sample of both MDMA's to test. I'll be contacting them sometime this week to see if I can send them the samples for research to get to the bottom of this. We're all baffled by what happened, and I can't stop thinking about it. It blows my mind that even this $50,000+ super computer can't even figure it out either.
 
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Mmhmm ;) really good post to start off the new thread by the way!! That was really informative.

I like how you said "It was the same idea, but this was on a new level." That's a good way to put it for the differences between "ok mdma" and "wow mdma." The clearness of the high is why I love really pure translucent crystal, as you said it feels like you've unlocked these emotions more so than a drug creating them.

I love how the bag was labeled "OG MDMA" lol that sounds like me. That guy sounds like he's been doing his thing for a minute, a good guy to know for sure..

Also interesting how the testing crew seems to be aware of this phenomenon. I've looked through many EData entries and I like to look at what the submitter expected it to be because often they submit thinking it may be another substance. This helps to show just how vast the effects can range for MDMA. The Dutch testing centers take it a step further and report the effects people experienced as well. I read one report where it was MDMA but had all sorts of nasty side effects that made it hard to believe it was MDMA at all..

Really excited to hear the test results too. It really is odd that both samples are likely high 90's% yet feel different. Either impurities can effect the experience even in minute quantities or there's something going on that we as of yet don't understand, or both...

Definitely update us with their response!

-GC
 
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G_Chem said:
Mmhmm ;) really good post to start off the new thread by the way!! That was really informative.

I like how you said "It was the same idea, but this was on a new level." That's a good way to put it for the differences between "ok mdma" and "wow mdma." The clearness of the high is why I love really pure translucent crystal, as you said it feels like you've unlocked these emotions more so than a drug creating them.

I love how the bag was labeled "OG MDMA" lol that sounds like me. That guy sounds like he's been doing his thing for a minute, a good guy to know for sure..

Also interesting how the testing crew seems to be aware of this phenomenon. I've looked through many EData entries and I like to look at what the submitter expected it to be because often they submit thinking it may be another substance. This helps to show just how vast the effects can range for MDMA. The Dutch testing centers take it a step further and report the effects people experienced as well. I read one report where it was MDMA but had all sorts of nasty side effects that made it hard to believe it was MDMA at all..

Really excited to hear the test results too. It really is odd that both samples are likely high 90's% yet feel different. Either impurities can effect the experience even in minute quantities or there's something going on that we as of yet don't understand, or both...

Definitely update us with their response!

-GC
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He's a very good friend of mine, known him for many years. Only other person I know IRL who is as interested in being informed about drugs as I am (not that I know a TON, but we love to get into discussions about these topics). He just keeps a small sample of pretty much every batch of MDMA he acquires to keep on record. The "OG MDMA" he said wasn't even that old, maybe a year. He said its just sort of a roll of the dice whether or not his connections have that specific kind on stock. That said, just like me he has had fantastic stuff that is the amber stinky crystal. But, its this less stinky, dull-amber rocky stuff that doesn't seem to do the trick.

Wish I had some ideas to throw out there on what might be going on but I really don't have a clue. In my heady-inebriated state I had the idea that maybe something is wrong with the trees that the precursor is coming from causing it to create a different isomer or alter the product? Similar to how fruits/vegetables have different nutritional aspects depending on how they've been grown (think of how store-bought raspberries often taste like nothing, but the same species growing in the wild taste awesome). Not much basis in that I know and I'm sure you all have been over that in the last thread. Will be keeping an eye on this thread for updates
 
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