MDMA Recovery (Stories & Support - 4)

[socrilus]

I don't think this stuff is completely psychological honestly. How can one go from being 100% completly normal with no prior mental health history for themselves or in their family to a total mental breakdown otherwise? Barring some life altering trauma which doesn't seem to be possible with MDMA given that most haven't even had a bad trip and just a harsh comedown. Also, what kind of thoughts can you say are psychologically causing the problem? It seems like the problem and the symptoms come before any thought patterns are even formed in the mind.

I do think the HPA theory mentioned many times could be it and that this LTC isn't psychological 100%. The problem is we have so little knowledge and modern medicine isn't that great when it comes to this stuff. Some doctors do know this stuff though but are hard to find and often not your typical run of the mill ones. And HPA issues are reversible.


I also found a great article here https://selfhacked.com/2015/02/14/reasons-cortisol-low-high/. And its complicated to test this stuff honestly. here is a link to an interview with a researcher who talks about why its so hard to test. He mentions exactly why most doctors don't really do anything--its cause even if the test shows an issue there is no "drug to fix it". So there isn't a magic pill. https://selfhacked.com/2016/01/21/l...n-fatigue-sleep-issues-and-circadian-biology/. I know some people, me included, feel a lot better at night too--how can this be a psychological thing?

Now this isn't to say that positive psychology won't help. It will but the main question is regarding the true cause of the symptoms to begin with. As in what sparks the symptoms to originate in the first place. Also not everybody got this LTC directly after MDMA and for some it came out of nowhere following a short time after doing the drug.

The key part is *came out of nowhere*. I don't think anxiety and depression normally come out of nowhere. Standard CBT which I tried seemed to be very basic. I really wonder why its suggested as a treatment when it doesn't seem to help that much when I *didn't* have thoughts like "I'm a failure". My thoughts are more along the realms of "when will I return to normal" and "Why do I feel like this". I don't know what thoughts I can particularly replace and don't see how there is anything inherently negative in these thoughts.

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

Despite my best efforts of healthy eating, regular exercise, positive thinking, meditation, socializing, therapy, challenging myself in every aspect of life and yet minute improvements but then suddenly I am back to normal after 2mg of Mirt?
However I have oft been convinced that I had returned to normality before just to slip back into the LTC once again. I don't know what to take from this. Part of me wants to accept that I will be permanently this way and yet another clings onto the longing to be permanently stable again, not discounting 'normal' fluctuations in life.

Also this revelation that I can 'fix' myself with an anti-d leads me to believe my issue is purely physiological despite every Tom, Dick and Harry insisting that I should look at psychological factors first.

Is there any advice you can offer, in layman's terms this time?

I would not be so quick to disavow that your previous efforts (especially meditation, I high approve of vipassana by the way) were in vain, even though it was only after the mirtazapine that you returned to normal.

People usually don't understand what they mean when they say "psychological". To me, everything is biological because its the biology that produces the psychology. Maybe they just mean that you have too many synapses (connections between brain cells) here and too few synapses there - synapses being more psychological because they are grown and severed all the time, therefore they are more malleable and not as permanent as a more biological disease like ALS for example.

I would continue your efforts outside of mirtazapine, mirtazapine might just have been the straw that broke the camels back (in a good way). There are other reports of people spontaneously returning to normal as I recall.

Keep meditating and try to relax your mind and body. Exercise is good as well but don't burn yourself out. A simple walk while trying to keep a mindful mindset would be good.

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

I don't think this stuff is completely psychological honestly. How can one go from being 100% completly normal with no prior mental health history for themselves or in their family to a total mental breakdown otherwise? Barring some life altering trauma which doesn't seem to be possible with MDMA given that most haven't even had a bad trip and just a harsh comedown. .

There is overlap between adverse effects from psychedelics like LSD and adverse effects (LTCs) from MDMA, one person even had the LTC symptoms from a bad LSD trip, and then went on to use MDMA and had a severe LTC with the same symptoms. I don't think anyone in their right mind (aside from some silly psychologist somewhere) is claiming that you can just instantly will away all the symptoms of an LTC but I think its important to believe that you can slowly but surely improve LTC symptoms through psychological means.

I don't think anxiety and depression normally come out of nowhere. Standard CBT which I tried seemed to be very basic. I really wonder why its suggested as a treatment when it doesn't seem to help that much when I *didn't* have thoughts like "I'm a failure". My thoughts are more along the realms of "when will I return to normal" and "Why do I feel like this". I don't know what thoughts I can particularly replace and don't see how there is anything inherently negative in these thoughts.

CBT wouldn't be my choice though its okay to try and you might get a good therapist, but you're right to point out that the "I'm a failure thoughts" that CBT centered therapists are used to correcting are not really the primary issue in LTC sufferers, instead, the CBT therapists should be teaching you quiet all of your thoughts rather than replace negative ones with positive ones.

I personally think the neural network responsible for generating spontaneous thoughts called the default mode network is over activated in LTC sufferers, its more than likely not the cause of 100% of the symptoms but I firmly believe quieting down the default mode network with mindfulness is a good path to symptom relief and improvement of the physiology of the brain. Mindfulness has proved especially effective for ruminating depression, which many (if not all) LTC sufferers seem to have. So maybe its not as much about replacing "negative" thoughts as much as it is about gaining some perspective and quieting all of the thoughts.

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

Thanks cotcha, you're very knowledgeable and I know many people on here appreciate it, I certainly do. What made you stay away from ADs? I would have thought that after 2 years of only sleeping 2 hours you would have looked for something to help!

I went to my GP again today for a follow up and explained what was going on....and she goes "I wonder if there's something psychological going on"...lol, obviously! She's then asks me "well what do you want to do? ". I knew then she was at a loss. My MRI came back normal apparently, but I'm still meeting with a neurologist in a month....for what it's worth. Maybe an EEG will show something...not that it changes anything but information never hurts.

I'm going to try a bit of valerian tea tonight, that in combination with the remeron seems to be the best for sleep the few times I've tried it. I haven't had DP/DR (yet) and I pray for people that do...seems awful. Basically just anxiety for me since I hadn't slept for 2 weeks lol.

The first two years or so were, lets say interesting, because my parents had no idea I was into drugs (I hid it pretty well), much less that I was suffering from ecstasy adverse effects, so I didn't really get to a doctor about it for quite a while. I did eventually end up trying Prozac but it gave me insomnia. I tried citalopram and it was better and seemed to help me sleep but I grew weary because of the horror stories about long term withdrawal after being on it for years (even though in retrospect I should have given it longer and ignored those horror stories). There is nothing wrong with trying an anti-depressant, but it sounds like insomnia and increased symptoms is pretty common for the first month and I'm not sure if its productive for an LTC sufferer to weather those symptoms for 2 weeks and then give up, without reaching the benefits of making it through to the good part. But not everybody gets those symptoms, so its definitely worth considering if you're at your wits end. personally antipsychotics helped me sleep and helped shut off my chatterbox mind, but realistically I should have been meditating and exercising from day one.

"something psychological going on" - I really don't like the word psychological but I think people mean in it a sense that implies that the symptoms are not due to brain cell death. It could be the malleable connections between brain cells that are causing issues.

I don't know a whole lot about EEG, but I would guess that if you had a sleep study, your brain would probably show excess wakefulness activity (alpha wave intrusion) if they actually bothered to look at the actual data. Unfortunately the polysomnographs utilize epochs, or 30 seconds intervals, they basically just look at a fragment of your brain waves once in a while and then make a judgement. You can miss things like alpha wave intrusion and fragmented sleep when you're just going off of the 30 second epochs, hence all the confusion with sleep state misperception. I don't know what they'll see in the daytime EEG but I'd love to hear the details if you do get an EEG.

 

[socrilus]

There is overlap between adverse effects from psychedelics like LSD and adverse effects (LTCs) from MDMA, one person even had the LTC symptoms from a bad LSD trip, and then went on to use MDMA and had a severe LTC with the same symptoms. I don't think anyone in their right mind (aside from some silly psychologist somewhere) is claiming that you can just instantly will away all the symptoms of an LTC but I think its important to believe that you can slowly but surely improve LTC symptoms through psychological means.



CBT wouldn't be my choice though its okay to try and you might get a good therapist, but you're right to point out that the "I'm a failure thoughts" that CBT centered therapists are used to correcting are not really the primary issue in LTC sufferers, instead, the CBT therapists should be teaching you quiet all of your thoughts rather than replace negative ones with positive ones.

I personally think the neural network responsible for generating spontaneous thoughts called the default mode network is over activated in LTC sufferers, its more than likely not the cause of 100% of the symptoms but I firmly believe quieting down the default mode network with mindfulness is a good path to symptom relief and improvement of the physiology of the brain. Mindfulness has proved especially effective for ruminating depression, which many (if not all) LTC sufferers seem to have. So maybe its not as much about replacing "negative" thoughts as much as it is about gaining some perspective and quieting all of the thoughts.

Ok yea I sort of see what you mean. Are you saying that even though the cause may not be psychological and could be related to biological factors the best we have is to fix it with the psychological means? Im sorry for using that word lol I saw you don't like it but idk how else to say this.

Also what do you mean by "ruminating depression"? It seems like a lot of the times the thoughts that are generated in the mind relate in some way directly to the bad mental state and mood itself. Not really things like the past. And worries about the future are often directly connected to the way I feel in the present. If I felt better, there would be less worrying about the future to begin with correct? As in the way you feel tends to cause the negative thoughts. Do you agree that this is often the case?

What do you mean by mindfulness--like paying attention to the ground and the air around etc? How does that make ones mood improve exactly? I read up on the default mode network thing on wiki and it said its when you are focused on yourself but isn't that sort of natural when you feel depressed you are thinking about the depression itself? I agree about it being overactive based on the wiki description of it but the whole thing is what is the cause of that? Like why has it been disturbed to begin with. Why are these neural connections altered in the first place?

And yea I know people get problems post LSD but there is so much higher probability to have a bad trip on that than MDMA right? I'm talking about situations where there isn't even a bad experience on MDMA itself. Its the physiological after effects that are bad and somehow even though its rare it seems like quite a few people are sensitive to it for some reason. And the cause of the persisting symptoms is what I am wondering about.

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

I would say fixing things with psychological means is a good way of thinking about it. Altering your thought patterns/neural activity in a way that is going to give you long term relief is the path that I would take, and mindfulness is probably the best way to do it. Mindfulness is essentially where you just feel your breathing for example, in a non-judgemental state. So every single time you have a thought, be it positive or negative, you return your attention to the breath. The goal is to have minimal thoughts. Of course thoughts will always come, but its important to not get too wrapped up in the thoughts, and just observe them and let your attention return to the breath.

Ruminating depression could be considered depression with rumination to put it plainly, and the rumination could be regrets about the past (about having taken the MDMA) or worries about the future (how will I fare with my job or this relationship now that I'm messed up from the MDMA).

I understand and absolutely agree that if you felt better there would be less worrying about the future, but I also bet you that if there was less worrying about the future (or whatever) you would feel better. Excessive thoughts can perpetuate feeling bad, and feeling bad can perpetuate excessive thoughts. So one therapeutic target for future neuroscience should be making you feeling better, and then hope that the excessive thoughts correct themselves, but for now we don't really have too much to make you feel better (that's not an addicting drug, of course you may try antidepressants or anxiolytics) so one safe therapeutic target is to control the excessive thoughts with psychological strategies. Mindfulness can certainly help with sleep, anxiety, and depression, and that's probably because of deactivation of the default mode network.

The default mode network is activated when you are "task negative", meaning when you are idle the default mode network automatically kicks on, and it should deactivate when you are dealing with a task (of course we see dysfunctional deactivation of the default mode network in a whole host of mental illnesses).

The neural connections could be altered in the first place because of maladaptive long term potentiation, a term used to describe new synapse formation. Most of LSD's (and other psychedelics) effects have been narrowed down to a certain serotonin receptor mixed with a glutamate receptor. Maybe flooding the brain with serotonin causes excess synaptic growth with this excitatory serotonin/glutamate receptor, and it takes a while for the brain to trim that connection. Considering that other people report basically LTC symptoms from LSD etc. and that one person had LTC symptoms from LSD and then got it really bad from MDMA it lends credence to my theory that LTCs are something to due with the serotonin/glutamate receptor.

It could also be an adaptation to a temporary deficit of serotonin signaling during the comedown. But the sort of "permanent damage/neuronal degeneration hypothesis" doesn't make sense in light of how many people spontaneously recover.

"isn't that sort of natural when you feel depressed you are thinking about the depression itself?" - I'm glad you brought this up. So essentially the idea of mindfulness is to assume a sort of non-judgemental state, you're not saying "I feel good", "I feel bad and why oh why oh why did I take that pill", you're just trying to stay in the present moment and avoid thinking too much. Thought is important, but there is a time for thinking and a time for being mindful and with the present moment, regardless of whether the present moment feels good or bad.

I think there is a higher rate of issues with MDMA but some people are severely affected by LSD as well, permanent psychosis from LSD is a very real thing. Its important to remember that people get derealization/depersonalization and most of the LTC symptoms (probably minus intense HPPD compared to LSD/MDMA adverse effects) from cannabis as well. Even a traumatic event like a sexual assault can cause most LTC symptoms, quite severely really. And yes usually people have a good trip and get really high but then on the comedown or a couple days later they start to feel horrible - maybe it just takes a little while for the adaptations to the flood of serotonin or the temporary deficit of serotonin signaling to set in.

The symptoms are only so persisting though. I'm sure that you can perpetuate the symptoms by perpetuating the neuronal issues with ruminating depression, but I think LTCs are fairly reversible if you take the right path and persevere. For some people it might only take a couple months, others a couple years. I'm on year 6 personally (20 years old now) and most of my recovery has occurred with mindfulness starting on the 5th year.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is that mindset is important. You can learn a lot from meditation.

 

[Go Easy]

The key part is *came out of nowhere*. I don't think anxiety and depression normally come out of nowhere. Standard CBT which I tried seemed to be very basic. I really wonder why its suggested as a treatment when it doesn't seem to help that much when I *didn't* have thoughts like "I'm a failure". My thoughts are more along the realms of "when will I return to normal" and "Why do I feel like this". I don't know what thoughts I can particularly replace and don't see how there is anything inherently negative in these thoughts.

This is a really interesting point and is probably the basis around why I found my visits to a psychologist weren't particularly beneficial. My thoughts were never "I'll never get better", but were (and still are) "when will I get better." I think this is the reason we are all so active in this particular thread - trying to find ways to get to that end recovery point as quickly as possible. There are very few people on here without that basically positive viewpoint that they will get better.

My psych tried to focus in on my regret for taking so much MDMA in one night - she treated my recollections of being at a festival and continually putting my hand in the bag to eat more pills as a memory that should be treated as if it was causing PTSD. The thing is, I wasn't traumatised by that. I had a fucking epic night. I regretted taking so much in the aftermath when I had to visit the hospital about a week later due to an insane panic attack, but it isn't trauma. The trauma is being caused by something physiological and I just don't think the psych and her CBT methods understood that.

Probably the best feedback I had was from my Neurologist who, after looking at my MRI and EEG results, basically shrugged his shoulders and said that there was no visible damage, that these sort of things generally correct themself, and that I should stop overthinking things and just try to get by - and that if I'm not back to myself by the end of the year, to get back in touch with him. He was also not surprised that I didn't get much benefit from the psych.

I'm probably hovering around the 70% recovery mark right now, and it is only now that I think that CBT *could* have a place. A couple of basically harmless symptoms, like Tinnitus and Eye Floaters are annoying and ruminating on them without question slows down the recovery of the psychological symptoms. Perhaps trying to approach them in a different light could be beneficial and accelerate recovery.

That said, I've found far more comfort and help in getting past these issues from posters on this board than I have from anyone in the medical profession. I'm sure the majority here are the same.

 

[8BitTrip]

Thank you [mention]socrilus[/mention] for putting my exact thoughts into words. I have no family or personal history of depression or 'mental illness' yet overnight, after MDMA use, I suddenly develop a plethora of symptoms which you could equate to a mental breakdown.

I have been continually astounded at the total misunderstanding of my condition of those around me, despite explaining very specifically what's wrong, only to hear back in retort that external factors x, y and z could be causing stress and anxiety supposedly leading me to feel this way. I am by no means disregarding psychological factors, but these existed beforehand. Then there's the theory that the MDMA brought them to the surface. Again, possible but to account blatantly physical symptoms like anhedonia and TMJ as psychosomatic is surely incorrect. Besides, I am the one directly experiencing the abnormalities and my intuition screams out that it's physiological. It 'feels' almost like the polar opposite of the MDMA experience.

I would not be so quick to disavow that your previous efforts (especially meditation, I high approve of vipassana by the way) were in vain, even though it was only after the mirtazapine that you returned to normal.

People usually don't understand what they mean when they say "psychological". To me, everything is biological because its the biology that produces the psychology. Maybe they just mean that you have too many synapses (connections between brain cells) here and too few synapses there - synapses being more psychological because they are grown and severed all the time, therefore they are more malleable and not as permanent as a more biological disease like ALS for example.

I would continue your efforts outside of mirtazapine, mirtazapine might just have been the straw that broke the camels back (in a good way). There are other reports of people spontaneously returning to normal as I recall.

Keep meditating and try to relax your mind and body. Exercise is good as well but don't burn yourself out. A simple walk while trying to keep a mindful mindset would be good.

Once again, thanks for your compassion and wisdom. I am certain that meditation has made the whole journey a whole lot more manageable and probably contributed somewhat to my improvement but moreover I feel it's a coping mechanism rather than healing tool. However, if the brain is neuroplastic I could be wrong. I also regard Vipassana very highly and will continue to practice it for the rest of my life.

Ultimately nobody knows, but my gut tells me in my case it is much more physiological. However it is all too easy to underestimate the hidden complexity of the mind in addition to the brain.

This is a really interesting point and is probably the basis around why I found my visits to a psychologist weren't particularly beneficial. My thoughts were never "I'll never get better", but were (and still are) "when will I get better." I think this is the reason we are all so active in this particular thread - trying to find ways to get to that end recovery point as quickly as possible. There are very few people on here without that basically positive viewpoint that they will get better.

My psych tried to focus in on my regret for taking so much MDMA in one night - she treated my recollections of being at a festival and continually putting my hand in the bag to eat more pills as a memory that should be treated as if it was causing PTSD. The thing is, I wasn't traumatised by that. I had a fucking epic night. I regretted taking so much in the aftermath when I had to visit the hospital about a week later due to an insane panic attack, but it isn't trauma. The trauma is being caused by something physiological and I just don't think the psych and her CBT methods understood that.

Probably the best feedback I had was from my Neurologist who, after looking at my MRI and EEG results, basically shrugged his shoulders and said that there was no visible damage, that these sort of things generally correct themself, and that I should stop overthinking things and just try to get by - and that if I'm not back to myself by the end of the year, to get back in touch with him. He was also not surprised that I didn't get much benefit from the psych.

I'm probably hovering around the 70% recovery mark right now, and it is only now that I think that CBT *could* have a place. A couple of basically harmless symptoms, like Tinnitus and Eye Floaters are annoying and ruminating on them without question slows down the recovery of the psychological symptoms. Perhaps trying to approach them in a different light could be beneficial and accelerate recovery.

That said, I've found far more comfort and help in getting past these issues from posters on this board than I have from anyone in the medical profession. I'm sure the majority here are the same.

I relate to everything you say here. I am relentlessly positive, even on my darkest days. Those in the medical profession seem to be the most deluded about MDMA of all. They have actually invoked shame and patronisation and furthermore proved quick to jump to conclusions based on their limited knowledge of general health conditions. GPs especially were quick to abide by dogma before proper listening and consideration.

I am on my second day of no Mirtazapine since I took 4mg and still almost normal. Fingers crossed for this stabilizing as I'd love to become a dependable source of information and supportive figure in the community like [mention]Cotcha Yankinov[/mention].

 

[ADubbs]

I haven't seen a post on the web yet where someone with a LTC went on antidepressants (SSRI specifically) and said it made them worse, just saying. I've found a few posts were Paxil helped some people. Cotcha mentioned Prozac made his insomnia worse though, which makes sense. Most of the posts that say "don't do it " never actually tried it (I think) I certainly get the concept on why it would be bad though. Then on the other hand, a 5000 foot view would say use an AD to stabilize things, then slowly taper off to allow you're brain to do its healing in a more controlled manner. I'm basically thinking out loud here.

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

I haven't seen a post on the web yet where someone with a LTC went on antidepressants (SSRI specifically) and said it made them worse, just saying. I've found a few posts were Paxil helped some people. Cotcha mentioned Prozac made his insomnia worse though, which makes sense. Most of the posts that say "don't do it " never actually tried it (I think) I certainly get the concept on why it would be bad though. Then on the other hand, a 5000 foot view would say use an AD to stabilize things, then slowly taper off to allow you're brain to do its healing in a more controlled manner. I'm basically thinking out loud here.

8Bit - congratulations! I hope you continue to feel better, or that you at least know that relief can be right around the corner.

ADubbs - I've really wanted to get some more conversation going on the topic of different antidepressants after an LTC, not to sound super clinical but I just wish I had more data so I could advise either way. For now if someone wanted to try something I'd have to recommend Citalopram or an SNRI like Venlafaxine, and apparently we have a one person precedent for success with low dose Mirtazapine (although I always like it for sleep and still use it sometimes). One of the issues with SSRIs is that they can often make symptoms worse for 2-3 weeks in normal depression/anxiety patients, but who knows about LTC sufferers.

For sleep Clonidine, panic attacks Propranolol, for really excessive thoughts/insomnia and more psychotic type symptoms antipsychotics like Risperidone helped me a lot though someone else may want to try something less industrial like seroquel. Gabapentin/pregablin I like personally mainly for sleep but they are anti-anxiety agents as well, utilized in the psychiatry world for lots of things.

Benzodiazepines I don't recall anything here about but I had a real life friend who has been on Klonopin for more than 3 years now for insomnia after ecstasy and they've really helped him. He might have an addiction now but I imagine even after withdrawal (whenever he does withdraw) he's better off than had he gone unmedicated and unslept.

 

[fnono33]

I am currently having the worst panic attack imagineable....I have stress hives all over my legs. This is the worse it's ever been. I am in so much pain....it started in the afternoon so it's night now. I just want to sleep. Tried 1mg of Ativan, results not great. I am exhausted. If I make it out the other side I will dedicate my life to helping others.

 

[ADubbs]

I am currently having the worst panic attack imagineable....I have stress hives all over my legs. This is the worse it's ever been. I am in so much pain....it started in the afternoon so it's night now. I just want to sleep. Tried 1mg of Ativan, results not great. I am exhausted. If I make it out the other side I will dedicate my life to helping others.

stay strong man, is it possible for you to go for a run or walk? I found that getting outside always helped me. If it gets real bad consider the ER, I'm sure they can give you something additional to help calm you. I went, no shame in it.

 

[fnono33]

Thanks I'm home now and in have calmed down a bit. My legs are covered in stress hives. Holy shit seems excessive for 2 months and change in.

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

I'm sorry fnono, I hope you feel better soon. Try to remember that 2-3 months in is nothing - things will get so much better with time.

Slow deep stomach breathing and mindfulness are important to remember in the midst of a panic attack, but with time you'll remember to do these things before the panic attack really comes on.

 

[fnono33]

I'm sorry fnono, I hope you feel better soon. Try to remember that 2-3 months in is nothing - things will get so much better with time.

Slow deep stomach breathing and mindfulness are important to remember in the midst of a panic attack, but with time you'll remember to do these things before the panic attack really comes on.

Thanks Cotcha. I am considering an SSRI...I have been on them before. This is so much to handle. When I was 'Normal' I was full of anxiety day to day. So I'm not sure I can bank of mindfulness to cure this. Is there a consensus that our brain is 'rebuilding' and that with time it will get better. Or, is this just anxiety?

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

How did you like them before, and what were you on?

And it doesn't surprise me that you weren't perfect before your LTC. I wouldn't necessarily bank on mindfulness to 100% cure you, but I would bank on it to improve your quality of life quite a bit. It just takes practice. It will not only help your LTC but it will really help your pre-existing (but now magnified) anxiety.

Judging by how many people spontaneously resolve, I don't think that our brain is regrowing brain cells etc., however, I do think that the connections between the brain cells (synapses) that are normally shifting all the time, due have to shift back to normal. The brain is like a muscle, and the "use it or lose it" concept applies to the synapses. As you delve into mindfulness over a couple months, you'll find that you have more and more control over your thought patterns, and when this happens your brain will trim these "bad" connections/synapses faster and you will experience relief faster.

Hang in there, it gets better. You're so early on, but it would be really good to start mindfulness as soon as you can to amplify the trimming of these bad synapses that were generated by the LTC.

 

[fnono33]

I didn't like them really, so that's why I went off them. Made me feel "numb." Although I would probably give up my right hand to feel that way again...

I will try the mindfulness. Does it basically boil down to ignoring the symptoms? People have said that when you're not thinking about them is when they go away.

Can you expand upon the "use it or lose it" concept? Sorry, I'm not that familiar with brain chemistry.

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

Well they are always there as an option to talk about with your doctor. I think that anything that calms down your thoughts will help you return to normal.

Someone said earlier in this thread "isn't that sort of natural when you feel depressed you are thinking about the depression itself?" - and I think this was a good example of where mindfulness steps in. Regardless of whether you're feeling good or bad, the goal with mindfulness is to just feel the feelings, be present with your body (If only staring at the inside of your eyelids) and not think about the feelings or pass judgment on them. So even if you feel bad, you're not saying to yourself "Wow I feel bad", you're just staying with the feelings and the present moment, not worrying about the future or regretting the past. This can change the pattern of communication between your brain regions and start to shift the pattern of activity more towards normal, but it will take time.

The idea with use it or lose it is that if you use something it can grow stronger and if you don't use something it will grow weaker. So for example (not to oversimplify) there is a "fear" brain region/structure called the amygdala that is seen to grow larger in long term PTSD patients, and it plays a role in anxiety/panic attacks as well. If you use this "fear" brain region a lot, it can grow stronger, and if you can manage to use it less, it will grow weaker.

The issue with LTC sufferers is probably more specific, maybe not involving entire brain regions, but synapses (connections between brain cells) that have grown stronger in the wrong place, and we can try to trim those bad connections by not using them, by shifting our brain activity with mindfulness. I hope I explained this okay, any questions are welcome.

Do you have HPPD-like visuals?

 

[fnono33]

Ok, I think I understand. I am very anxious and depressed as a default so this will be an uphill battle all the way. I will try to stay positive. If this was a question of just time, then I could sit with it better. I do have slight HPPD I think, but it's only noticeable during a panic episode or periods of high anxiety. Why do you ask?

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

It is a question of time, and for a lot of people that's around a year, but a good mindset (not ruminating) will speed you along.

HPPD/visuals seems to be a source of a lot of anxiety for LTC sufferers. I was just wondering if your visuals do get to you as well. I think it's important to let go of the visuals but that does take time.