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Benzos Currently on Clonazepam.. Thinking of a change.

Methacodone

Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Messages
1,430
Hey BLers.

Im currently prescribed Clonazepam 1mg 3x daily for Anxiety, Agorphobia, and Insomnia.

my psychiatrist is awesome. He cares for patients deeply. When I first went into his office, people in the lobby all we're saying great stuff about him.

Anyways, we're going to discuss medications on my next visit, couple weeks from today.

Before I got the script for Clonazepam, He knew I had a script for 2mg Clonazepam tablets 2x daily, 4mg total.
He told me get your tolerance back up, and I'll re new your script from before.
He also said to let him know if I feel a different medication will meet my needs batter.

In all honesty, Clonazepam is my favorite benzo.

1. Clonazepam
2. Diazepam
3. Lorazepam
4. Alprazolam

The only downfall to Clonazepam is that it takes toooo long to peak.

So, this is when it comes in to play.

Should I resume my 2mg 2x daily of Clonazepam, or ask to switch up to a different medication.

My options are,

1. Clonazepam 2mg 2x daily
2. Lorazepam 2mg 3x daily
3. Diazepam 10mg 4x daily

I don't bother with Alprazolam. Over rated IMO.

Out of those 3 choices, what would you guys get?
 
ive been on clonazepam 3mg a day for 2 years and i personally think clonazepam is the best benzo. alprazolam is totally over rated. ive tried alpraz, clonaz, diaz, and loraz all at the same doses you have tried. and id stay with clonazepam and just try taking it earlier if it takes longer to peak. you can break up the pill in your mouth and put it under your tongue if you dont already do that. for me it hits in like 30 min if i do it that way. clonazepam takes a really long time to dissolve under my tongue tho even broken up with teeth (about 5 or so min) but its all worth it for me. it takes me about 60-70mg of diazepam (second favorite benzo) to feel like i do when on 3mg clonazepam for the record. but in the end its your choice if you have those options thats an awesome doc! hope i helped
 
lol at your psychiatrist " deeply caring for people" and then giving them benzos, one of the most harmful substances to be on long term.
 
lol at your psychiatrist " deeply caring for people" and then giving them benzos, one of the most harmful substances to be on long term.

God I can't fucking stand this statement you just made and your way of thinking.

You can DEFINITELY fucking "deeply care" for a patient and give them benzos because they happen to really help people with anxiety.

Do you have anxiety yourself??

Sounds like you don't because if you did like me, and yours responded incredibly well to Klonopin, like mine does, then you'd be pretty upset at all the doctors who refuse to give benzos to patients because of their dangers.

I think we have what I refer to as a "war on benzos" going on in America in particular, where fewer and fewer doctors are willing to prescribe benzos because of their side effects and because they are always afraid patients will abuse them without even considering that 1) ALL drugs have harmful side effects but it should be the patient's choice to risk the dangers in favor of the benefits 2) that benzos are possibly THE SINGLE most effective medication for anxiety.

This is why I want to see an end to the "war on benzos" just like I want to seen an end to the war on drugs.

Inform people of the dangers associated with them and then once they understand them it should be their own choice whether or not they want to risk those dangers.

I personally believe that the long term dangers of being on a long-half life benzo like Klonopin at LOW dosages are greatly overrated considering I've been on Klonopin for almost 12 years and have never had any kind of serious side effects but have found they have been a PANACEA for my social anxiety.

What Klonopin has done for me has allowed me to live my life free of a particular form of social anxiety that was CRIPPLING me.

And even with the dangers associated with benzos, SHOULDN'T THE PATIENT BE ALLOWED TO CHOOSE TO TAKE A MEDICATION REGARDLESS OF THOSE DANGERS???

I mean you actually fucking believe that a person shouldn't have the choice to take a medication that is helpful for anxiety but has some long term potential for harm??

And you believe doctors shouldn't EVER prescribe them even for people who's anxiety is crippling??


See, this is what I fucking hate about bluelight: When it comes to benzos most on here only consider the POTENTIAL harm they can cause but dont' even consider how much they can help people and would rather insist that doctors shouldn't even be permitted to prescribe these medications.


So if you personally believe that a doctor cannot "deeply care" for a patient if he is willing to prescribe medications which have the potential to free them of crippling anxiety then I am sorry, but you sound like a fucking idiot.
 
I mean really, lets just let people who are agoraphobic and afraid to even go the supermarket suffer indefinitely even though a benzo prescription could give them GREAT relief and allow them to live their lives free of crippling anxiety because benzos have some dangers and some side effects just like all drugs.

Lets definitely consider a doctor who is willing to write a benzo prescription because he wants to free his patients of anxiety by allowing them to weigh the dangers vs the benefits to be someone who couldn't possibly be "deeply caring".

The uncaring doctors are the ones who make the decision for the patient and don't allow them to make free choices regarding their brains and bodies.

Unbelievable.
 
lol at your psychiatrist " deeply caring for people" and then giving them benzos, one of the most harmful substances to be on long term.

What are benzodiazepines made for, then?
Deceratioms?

To be honest here, HE DID inform me that I should take it easy with benzos, he mentioned how dangerous the withdrawal can be, and how you can become a slave to them, etc.

Its not a candy store where you find packages of whatever kind of drugs you're looking for.

Ive had chronic anxiety and Agorphobia ever since I was 20 years old.. I'm 27 right now.
I got the chronic anxiety from me stealing $100,000s of dollars and jewlery from my parents, when they found out, they were speechless and that's also the time they knew I was on drugs.

BTW, of course you do your vitals at the office, I went 3 days without benzos to my appt.
he noticed my heart beat going extremely fast, and my blood pressure was also bad.
This is WITH my daily dose of Methadone at 80mg.
Methadone is an extremely potent opiate as you should know, and it's supposed to be the opposite, Opiates SLOW Down your heart rate.

Btw,
cadams,
I agree with you.
my favorite benzo has always been Klonopin/Clonazepam.
and yes absolutely I've tried the sublingual ROA, it DOES kick in faster that wway, but I also feel like it doesn't last as long as it should when I do it that way.
I made up my mind already, it's making me anxious just thinking about switching to a different benzo, haha.
 
Hey I gotta an off-on-a-slight-tangent-type question, which is this; does clonazepam have the potential to actually cause agitation in some people who take it?

I ask because after years of being on diazepam, breaking from it every now and again with oxazepam, my psychiatrist has decided to give clonazepam a go. When I told my dad about this he said to be cautious. He is a professor of psychology and specializes in Asperger's Syndrome. He said he has seen some of his patients experience an almost inverted effect when taking clonazepam - they get agitated and restless. Bear in mind these are people who have Asperger's...

But since Asperger's is just a blip on a spectrum, my common sense tells me if dad's theory were true, others would have experienced this, Asperger's or not. Any insights appreciated.

Thanks :)
 
God I can't fucking stand this statement you just made and your way of thinking.

You can DEFINITELY fucking "deeply care" for a patient and give them benzos because they happen to really help people with anxiety.

Do you have anxiety yourself??

Sounds like you don't because if you did like me, and yours responded incredibly well to Klonopin, like mine does, then you'd be pretty upset at all the doctors who refuse to give benzos to patients because of their dangers.

I think we have what I refer to as a "war on benzos" going on in America in particular, where fewer and fewer doctors are willing to prescribe benzos because of their side effects and because they are always afraid patients will abuse them without even considering that 1) ALL drugs have harmful side effects but it should be the patient's choice to risk the dangers in favor of the benefits 2) that benzos are possibly THE SINGLE most effective medication for anxiety.

This is why I want to see an end to the "war on benzos" just like I want to seen an end to the war on drugs.

Inform people of the dangers associated with them and then once they understand them it should be their own choice whether or not they want to risk those dangers.

I personally believe that the long term dangers of being on a long-half life benzo like Klonopin at LOW dosages are greatly overrated considering I've been on Klonopin for almost 12 years and have never had any kind of serious side effects but have found they have been a PANACEA for my social anxiety.

What Klonopin has done for me has allowed me to live my life free of a particular form of social anxiety that was CRIPPLING me.

And even with the dangers associated with benzos, SHOULDN'T THE PATIENT BE ALLOWED TO CHOOSE TO TAKE A MEDICATION REGARDLESS OF THOSE DANGERS???

I mean you actually fucking believe that a person shouldn't have the choice to take a medication that is helpful for anxiety but has some long term potential for harm??

And you believe doctors shouldn't EVER prescribe them even for people who's anxiety is crippling??


See, this is what I fucking hate about bluelight: When it comes to benzos most on here only consider the POTENTIAL harm they can cause but dont' even consider how much they can help people and would rather insist that doctors shouldn't even be permitted to prescribe these medications.


So if you personally believe that a doctor cannot "deeply care" for a patient if he is willing to prescribe medications which have the potential to free them of crippling anxiety then I am sorry, but you sound like a fucking idiot.

Lol, there is no need to get all bent out of shape. But unfortunately, this kind of behavior is very typical of long term benzo users. Of course I have anxiety, I don't speak on subjects I don't have experience with. I have struggled with social anxiety all my life and taken benzos for years also.

I didn't say I didn't think a patient shouldn't be allowed to choose to use a drug, that's a different topic. What I said was, someone who deeply cares for their patients should not be giving them brain damaging poison, which benzos are. The side effects of benzos aren't always apparent while you are taking the medication, they become apparent once you try to come off. It took me over 6 years to recover from my time on benzos. WHen used long term, they cause serious changes to the brain. I am not unusual either, just go to a site like benzobuddies.org and you will notice thousands of people all around the world have had their lives seriously disrupted or even destroyed by benzos.

I am all for doctors right to do whatever they can to help the patient. But the fact of the matter is that the situation isn't actually so bad that you need to take a brain damaging poison to treat anxiety. First of all, all they do is mask the symptom. They don't cure anxiety, as evidenced by you continuining to rely on them after TWELVE years. Its like putting a sticker over the check engine light in your car instead of checking the engine. Second, there are plenty of other ways to treat anxiety which are both safer and more effective than benzos.

When a drug turns out to cause serious side effects, it is usually banned or removed from the market to protect people, like Vioxx. Benzos have more than enough risks to meet this same fate, but there is serious denial about this in the medical community. Just read http://www.benzo.org.uk/. Again, this is a separate issue from your right to use benzos. I believe if you truly wish to your poison yourself, you should be able to. But no doctor should in good conscience seriously recommend that for you as " medical treatment".

A doctor who truly cares for his patients, isn't likely to give them something which has a high percent chance of destroying their mind and which is next to impossible to stop taking. Its simply bad medicine, period. The issue of whether someone who wants benzos despite the dangers should have access to them, is a separate question as to whether it is good medicine. Someone who truly cares about your well being, wouldn't be likely to recommend smoking crack to you as a treatment for depression, even if you are convinced that smoking crack is the only way to improve your mood. Thats your delusion. A good doctor, actually cures his patients, instead of merely getting them hooked on some chemical that big pharma wants to cash in on.

I know I will be hated for speaking the truth, but the truth is that there are much better ways to deal with anxiety than poisoning yourself with benzos.
 
What are benzodiazepines made for, then?
Deceratioms?

They are indicated for short term use, for life threatening seizures and surgical procedures. Nearly all the research on benzos says they should not be used long term, but doctors ignore it.

To be honest here, HE DID inform me that I should take it easy with benzos, he mentioned how dangerous the withdrawal can be, and how you can become a slave to them, etc.

So he deeply cares for you but he gives you something he admits is highly dangerous and you can become a slave to? There are only two possibilities here. One is that he doesn't actually care about you and the other is that he such a bad doctor that he honestly believes there is no better way to treat anxiety. Its kinda like telling an alcoholic, yup, you might as well keep drinking. There ain't no other way to deal with your depression and anxiety.
 
Easy now girls! Let's settle this like some true psychonaughts...bongs and TV :)

But if you live close you could go and have a fist fight! Yeah man....
 
Lol, there is no need to get all bent out of shape. But unfortunately, this kind of behavior is very typical of long term benzo users. Of course I have anxiety, I don't speak on subjects I don't have experience with. I have struggled with social anxiety all my life and taken benzos for years also.

I didn't say I didn't think a patient shouldn't be allowed to choose to use a drug, that's a different topic. What I said was, someone who deeply cares for their patients should not be giving them brain damaging poison, which benzos are. The side effects of benzos aren't always apparent while you are taking the medication, they become apparent once you try to come off. It took me over 6 years to recover from my time on benzos. WHen used long term, they cause serious changes to the brain. I am not unusual either, just go to a site like benzobuddies.org and you will notice thousands of people all around the world have had their lives seriously disrupted or even destroyed by benzos.

I am all for doctors right to do whatever they can to help the patient. But the fact of the matter is that the situation isn't actually so bad that you need to take a brain damaging poison to treat anxiety. First of all, all they do is mask the symptom. They don't cure anxiety, as evidenced by you continuining to rely on them after TWELVE years. Its like putting a sticker over the check engine light in your car instead of checking the engine. Second, there are plenty of other ways to treat anxiety which are both safer and more effective than benzos.

When a drug turns out to cause serious side effects, it is usually banned or removed from the market to protect people, like Vioxx. Benzos have more than enough risks to meet this same fate, but there is serious denial about this in the medical community. Just read http://www.benzo.org.uk/. Again, this is a separate issue from your right to use benzos. I believe if you truly wish to your poison yourself, you should be able to. But no doctor should in good conscience seriously recommend that for you as " medical treatment".

A doctor who truly cares for his patients, isn't likely to give them something which has a high percent chance of destroying their mind and which is next to impossible to stop taking. Its simply bad medicine, period. The issue of whether someone who wants benzos despite the dangers should have access to them, is a separate question as to whether it is good medicine. Someone who truly cares about your well being, wouldn't be likely to recommend smoking crack to you as a treatment for depression, even if you are convinced that smoking crack is the only way to improve your mood. Thats your delusion. A good doctor, actually cures his patients, instead of merely getting them hooked on some chemical that big pharma wants to cash in on.

I know I will be hated for speaking the truth, but the truth is that there are much better ways to deal with anxiety than poisoning yourself with benzos.



What "kind of behavior is typical of long term benzo users"?

Getting bent out of shape??

That's not only annoying it's insulting.

I'm no more prone to getting "bent out of shape" than I ever was and it's quite an odd statement to make.

Sorry, but even though I see your points I still mostly disagree.

Benzos like Klonopin CAN....Repeat CAN SOMETIMES permanently damage the brain depending on dosage, years of use and frequency and any number of other factors and.

They do NOT ALWAYS cause permanent negative changes to the brain, and I personally wouldn't refer to them with the language "brain damaging poison" unless you also want to refer to any number of other psychiatric medications like SSRIs, MAOIs and anti-psychotics under the same language.

Whether or not they "cure" symptoms is not of issue IMO.

SSRIs, which have also been prescribed for mental illness for a LONG time, do not "cure" the patient either in the sense that if one stops taking them the issues one was taking them for will return.

In fact, I think the vast majority of psychiatric medications do not "cure" a patient either, but as long as they are taken symptoms do not occur.

Personally, speaking from someone who has used them 12 years, I honestly don't care that they don't cure my anxiety because all I know is that while I use them my anxiety is gone and I have seen very few side effects other than some mild drowsiness, and that is good enough for me.

My twelve years of use have indeed shown that they don't cure anxiety, as I got off of them for 9 months (EASILY actually despite how many people have trouble with this I had almost no WD which speaks well for my reaction to the drug) and did indeed find my anxiety was still there so I started using them again.

But to speak of medications not "curing" people and only helping so long as they are taken in this day and age is kind of pointless with how common it is across the board even with medications that are not psychiatric in nature.

My mother has a thyroid condition and she has to take thyroid medication the rest of her life or she will die but so long as she takes it she does not have any number of extremely uncomfortable symptoms caused by her condition.

So her medication doesn't "cure" her, but she is perfectly satisfied with the knowledge that this is the case because they keep her alive and keep her symptoms from occuring.

MANY people with all kinds of conditions take medications for their entire lives which never actually "cure" them.

People with high cholesterol or high blood pressure take meds for these conditions their whole lives and are never "cured" but if they are satisfied with their symptoms no longer occurring and are able to tolerate the side effects then they are satisfied.


This is how I personally feel about Klonopin.

And just because in 12 years I haven't felt the negative side effects does NOT necessarily mean that I will EVER experience permanent horrific cognitive changes and I personally am betting that it won't ever happen to me.

Now while it is of course true that a good doctor should treat the cause of the problem and not only the symptoms, who is to say that he can't do BOTH????

They certainly can.

For me, I see one doctor for medication and I seek therapy from other doctors to try to cause the root of the problem.

Maybe someday I'll cure the root and no longer need the medication, but if not I will have something which can overcome the crippling symptoms.

I in no way see the analogy of putting a sticker over the check engine sign in your car either lol.

It's more like repairing an old car over and over in an effort to keep it running as long as possible until it inevitably breaks down and you need to buy another....but really, that analogy doesn't work too well either and I don't think we need a "car analogy" for this.

I absolutely reject out of hand that a doctor cannot care about his patient's well being because he prescribes a medication which CAN...repeat CAN have harmful side effects but which brings great relief of symptoms.

For all of the thousands of people on that "benzobuddies" site who are getting together and crying about the damage done to them by benzos who knows how many thousands of people have used benzos WITHOUT ever experiencing this horrible long term side effects???

You can be damn sure that they are out there and you just aren't hearing from them, but you are hearing from one right now.

All drugs have side effects and the history of medications which treat only symptoms but not the root and which CAN have negative side effects is about as deep and extensive as it gets to the point of my venturing to guess that quite possibly the MAJORITY of medications that exist, both psychiatric and otherwise, do not actually CURE a patient permanently but only treat symptoms.

Whether or not it's the majority it's certainly true that a MASSIVE percentage of medications do not actually permanently "cure" a person but nevertheless relieve symptoms.

And for some people, like myself, relief of symptoms without experiencing negative side effects is good enough at least for the time being.

Actually PERMANENTLY "curing" anxiety may not always even be possible at all.

So to say that a doctor that prescribes these meds for symptom relief of disorders that can be EXTREMELY hard to overcome doesn't care about his patients is ridiculous.

You are not being "hated" for speaking the truth, you are being called out for only speaking ONE HALF of the truth.

The other half is that these "better ways of treating anxiety" are not always readily available or even accessible at all, do not themselves always "cure" the entire problem either and that benzos are just one of scores of medications for all sorts of issues which CAN SOMETIMES have negative effects in favor of helping with sometimes crippling symptoms.

All medications have side effects, and as such, it is up to the patient to decide whether or not the risks are worth it for the symptom relief but in the end the risks of the medication does NOT make doctors who prescribe them "uncaring monsters".
 
I would stick with just clonazepam. If you're determined to add another benzo and the choices are diazepam or lorazepam it seems diazepam would be the better choice. Its fast acting and far more effective for anxiety than lorazepam ime.

@Mycophile -My Age of Anxiety: Fear, Hope, Dread, and the Search for Peace of Mind - Scott Stossel
Is an excellent book which I found helpful, perhaps you might read something that could help you understand your own anxiety better.
 
I would stick with just clonazepam. If you're determined to add another benzo and the choices are diazepam or lorazepam it seems diazepam would be the better choice. Its fast acting and far more effective for anxiety than lorazepam ime.

@Mycophile -My Age of Anxiety: Fear, Hope, Dread, and the Search for Peace of Mind - Scott Stossel
Is an excellent book which I found helpful, perhaps you might read something that could help you understand your own anxiety better.

Thanks.

Maybe I'll see if I can pick up a cheap copy.
 
What "kind of behavior is typical of long term benzo users"?

Getting bent out of shape??

That's not only annoying it's insulting.

I'm no more prone to getting "bent out of shape" than I ever was and it's quite an odd statement to make.

Sorry, but even though I see your points I still mostly disagree.

Benzos like Klonopin CAN....Repeat CAN SOMETIMES permanently damage the brain depending on dosage, years of use and frequency and any number of other factors and.

They do NOT ALWAYS cause permanent negative changes to the brain, and I personally wouldn't refer to them with the language "brain damaging poison" unless you also want to refer to any number of other psychiatric medications like SSRIs, MAOIs and anti-psychotics under the same language.

Whether or not they "cure" symptoms is not of issue IMO.

SSRIs, which have also been prescribed for mental illness for a LONG time, do not "cure" the patient either in the sense that if one stops taking them the issues one was taking them for will return.

In fact, I think the vast majority of psychiatric medications do not "cure" a patient either, but as long as they are taken symptoms do not occur.

Personally, speaking from someone who has used them 12 years, I honestly don't care that they don't cure my anxiety because all I know is that while I use them my anxiety is gone and I have seen very few side effects other than some mild drowsiness, and that is good enough for me.

My twelve years of use have indeed shown that they don't cure anxiety, as I got off of them for 9 months (EASILY actually despite how many people have trouble with this I had almost no WD which speaks well for my reaction to the drug) and did indeed find my anxiety was still there so I started using them again.

But to speak of medications not "curing" people and only helping so long as they are taken in this day and age is kind of pointless with how common it is across the board even with medications that are not psychiatric in nature.

My mother has a thyroid condition and she has to take thyroid medication the rest of her life or she will die but so long as she takes it she does not have any number of extremely uncomfortable symptoms caused by her condition.

So her medication doesn't "cure" her, but she is perfectly satisfied with the knowledge that this is the case because they keep her alive and keep her symptoms from occuring.

MANY people with all kinds of conditions take medications for their entire lives which never actually "cure" them.

People with high cholesterol or high blood pressure take meds for these conditions their whole lives and are never "cured" but if they are satisfied with their symptoms no longer occurring and are able to tolerate the side effects then they are satisfied.


This is how I personally feel about Klonopin.

And just because in 12 years I haven't felt the negative side effects does NOT necessarily mean that I will EVER experience permanent horrific cognitive changes and I personally am betting that it won't ever happen to me.

Now while it is of course true that a good doctor should treat the cause of the problem and not only the symptoms, who is to say that he can't do BOTH????

They certainly can.

For me, I see one doctor for medication and I seek therapy from other doctors to try to cause the root of the problem.

Maybe someday I'll cure the root and no longer need the medication, but if not I will have something which can overcome the crippling symptoms.

I in no way see the analogy of putting a sticker over the check engine sign in your car either lol.

It's more like repairing an old car over and over in an effort to keep it running as long as possible until it inevitably breaks down and you need to buy another....but really, that analogy doesn't work too well either and I don't think we need a "car analogy" for this.

I absolutely reject out of hand that a doctor cannot care about his patient's well being because he prescribes a medication which CAN...repeat CAN have harmful side effects but which brings great relief of symptoms.

For all of the thousands of people on that "benzobuddies" site who are getting together and crying about the damage done to them by benzos who knows how many thousands of people have used benzos WITHOUT ever experiencing this horrible long term side effects???

You can be damn sure that they are out there and you just aren't hearing from them, but you are hearing from one right now.

All drugs have side effects and the history of medications which treat only symptoms but not the root and which CAN have negative side effects is about as deep and extensive as it gets to the point of my venturing to guess that quite possibly the MAJORITY of medications that exist, both psychiatric and otherwise, do not actually CURE a patient permanently but only treat symptoms.

Whether or not it's the majority it's certainly true that a MASSIVE percentage of medications do not actually permanently "cure" a person but nevertheless relieve symptoms.

And for some people, like myself, relief of symptoms without experiencing negative side effects is good enough at least for the time being.

Actually PERMANENTLY "curing" anxiety may not always even be possible at all.

So to say that a doctor that prescribes these meds for symptom relief of disorders that can be EXTREMELY hard to overcome doesn't care about his patients is ridiculous.

You are not being "hated" for speaking the truth, you are being called out for only speaking ONE HALF of the truth.

The other half is that these "better ways of treating anxiety" are not always readily available or even accessible at all, do not themselves always "cure" the entire problem either and that benzos are just one of scores of medications for all sorts of issues which CAN SOMETIMES have negative effects in favor of helping with sometimes crippling symptoms.

All medications have side effects, and as such, it is up to the patient to decide whether or not the risks are worth it for the symptom relief but in the end the risks of the medication does NOT make doctors who prescribe them "uncaring monsters".


I respect your point of view and I am glad you acknowledge I am speaking at least "one half" the truth. We are simply looking at this different angles. I have come to a point in my life, where I no longer have respect for much of western medicine, as it has become a profit driven enterprise run by the pharmaceutical companies who stand to make big bucks by keeping people sick and only treating the symptoms.

You are right that most medications do this. That's because this model is very profitable and the pharmaceutical execs wouldn't have it any other way. God forbid, if a doctor actually knew how to cure his patients. THere would no money in it. The medical system we have today is designed to keep people coming back for repeat visits and endless treatments. I even get in trouble for not having a "primary care physician". Why should I be required to have a primary care physician? Am I required to have a "primary" mechanic or a "primary" plumber?

What I am trying to say about benzos, is that they are crappy drugs. They actually aren't particularly effective long term for most people, they interfere with important phases of sleep and numb emotions, cause irritability, memory problems and other side effects and worst of all, as mentioned, they cause a very serious long term withdrawal syndrome in many users.

You are right, we don't know what percentage of users are ending up on forums like benzobuddies. My point is that the very fact that such a forum exists, is proof of what bad drugs benzos are. Good, safe drugs do not cause such long term problems for a significant enough amount of people to warrant an entire forum dedicated to withdrawing from them. It doesn't matter if even 70% of people have no problem. If a drug causes significant illness to 30% of the people it is prescribed to, then it is not a safe drug and should not be used in medicine, at least not anywhere near a first line of treatment. I agree with you that people should have the right to decide what substances they want to use, so if they want to make people sign a waver covering the risks of benzos before taking them, I would be fine with that. The problem I have is that when a medical professional prescribes you an FDA approved medication, there is a certain assumption there that it has been properly researched and that it is "safe" to ingest. Obviously, that's not always the case but my point is, we need to hold, doctors and pharmaceutical companies responsible for the damage caused by their greed, lies and shoddy research. Thats a separate issue from allowing people the right to ingest which chemicals they to ingest (which I'm all for), don't you think? Unfortunately, we live in a society which doesn't believe people should be able to make their own choices and instead the government must tells us whats good for us, even though its proven track record at doing this is not even very good.

Btw, I'm sorry for saying your response was typical of long term benzo users. I meant, it is typical for long term benzo users to be irritable, and easily offended. I certainly was that way when i was on benzos. But I realize I did not know you before and as you said, you could very well have been that way before. So that was a cheap shot and I apologize.
 
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@burnout:


I understand where you are coming from and the model of keeping people sick and coming to the doctor is fucked up although I am not 100% sure that it's EVERYONE in the system's intention to keep it that way as there are good doctors out there who really do want to help their patients.

Certainly though I think not enough doctors make sure that their patients are 100% aware of all the side effects of benzos or ANY drug they are given and that is an issue.

For me though, Klonopin has helped me so much that I feel indebted to it in a way.

Despite it not curing me and only treating my symptoms there are SO many painful situations it has helped me through that I feel I have to come to it's defense when people start calling it a crappy drug and saying that doctors who give it to their patients must not be caring.

On the contrary, one reason I feel so strongly is that I was DENIED this medication by a doctor thinking like you do during a period when I REALLY needed and it resulted in a massive panic attack, the repercussions of which have effected me to this day.

I knew I wanted access to a benzo and that it could help me because I had read about it, but this doctor who was actually only thinking IN HIS OWN INTEREST because he said, in so many words, that he was scared if he gave it to me I'd get into an accident and he'd lose his license but smirked when I suggested that he should be more concerned about me being injured in the accident than his own license....

It was this doctor who denied me access to Klonopin when I needed it years ago because of it's "addictive" and could lower my reaction time and result in an accident.

This doctor considered benzos "too dangerous" and his denial of this medication DIRECTLY contributed to the worst panic attack of my life which would never have occurred had I had access to the med.

After this happened I saw another doctor who finally gave me Klonopin and it worked wonders but within weeks he was telling me he was going to take it away because "benzos are only meant to be used short term".

So you can imagine I fought like hell to make sure he DIDN'T take my medicine away!!!

I finally found another doctor who would give me this medication WITHOUT threatening to take it away and it helped me immensely.

Fast forward to years later and for reasons I won't get into I needed to switch doctors and once again met with this resistance from an asshole doctor who refused to let me have my medication and because of it the crippling panic and social anxiety returned, forcing me to have to be uncomfortable in situations that I had been perfectly comfortable in with the medication.

He gave me these same lines, that the medication is "addictive and dangerous" all the while having no qualms about stuffing me full of SSRIs which are known to have their own side effects.

So now that I have this valuable and effective medication once again I like to defend my right to have it and emphasize how much it has helped me.

I am sure it DOES have negative side effects which I really hope will not become apparent in years, but nevertheless I feel it should be my choice to make to take it.

And I accept your apology about the cheap shot.

Actually, I am irritable right now from having taken too much Phenibut, a GABA-B drug but NOT a benzo, which I just take recreationally once a week but I've noticed a side effect for me is irritability.

I have become more irritable over the years but I attribute it to a number of psychological factors (along with MASSIVE caffeine consumption which doesn't agree with me but which I can't stop) which I don't need to get into here lol...

It's important we don't jump to conclusions about people on here as we never know details about people.

But yeah, I understand where you are coming from.

Its certainly not a simple issue and both sides of the argument have valid points to be made when the overall intention is the well being of the patient no matter what your stance on these drugs is.
 
I agree and I think for the benefit of everyone who reads this thread, we've done a good job of illustrating both sides. I also started taking benzos during a time in my life when I was suffering tremendous anxiety and panic attacks and they seemed to help so much which is how I got hooked. At the time, I literally just thought I'd stay on them for life if the withdrawal was really so bad. But after a few years, I started getting bad side effects, like becoming super irritable, angry, developing strange fears, feeling numb to emotions, anxiety in between doses and severe depression and hopelessness. Eventually I realized that these side effects were from the benzo and thus with tremendous horror I realized I was going to have to either come off or shoot myself. I decided to come off. Little did I know at the time, but I would spend the next six years of my life recovering, during which I lost my job, all my savings, my car and even my phone. Anyway, the you are not the first person I've talked who has said benzos have done more good than bad for. It may also have something to do with that I was taking xanax, which has a short half life and thus causes more interdosage problems.

But anyway, the main thing I want to see is better treatments for anxiety developed so that people don't have to choose between risking benzo depedence and experiencing anxiety. How does phenibut work for anxiety btw? I have some phenibut but I havent gotten round to trying it yet. One treated I think needs to be explored more is kava. I have experienced tremendous improvements in my anxiety with kava. And I dont mean just giving people kava pills (althoug that isn't a bad option) but for me, the real benefit of kava was that it gave me insight into the causes of my anxiety and helped me to resolve some of the underlying issues while also just giving me relaxation. This is why I am in the favor of the shamanic "sacred plant ceremony" method, where plants are used in conjunction with a setting that is conductive to psychological healing and relaxation, thus helping people face their issues rather than simply masking them.

Of course, such a technique does not appeal to our medical system because its not nearly as profitable as pushing pills. People can grow/buy their own kava and do their own ceremonies with it, or use it as they see fit and suddenly the power is in their hands and the doctor's role is reduced. Of course the doctor is still important, people who are skilled and knowledgeable in the art of plant healing would be very valuable, but not to the point where they are getting rich by signing their name on prescription pads. They would need to have actual healing ability.
 
@ burnout (BL FIX YOUR FORUM, I CAN'T QUOTE ANYONE and I'm losing everything I write!!)...

I think the fact that you used Xanax instead of Klonopin was probably a large part of the issue.

I've heard it called the "crack of benzos" and seems to cause more problems than Klonopin and maybe you wouldn't have had those issues had you been on Klonopin.


Phenibut is not very good for anxiety as it is more addictive than benzos and can only be taken once or twice a week but while it lasts it feels nice.

Kava has never had much of any effect on me and I have tried multiple forms but perhaps if I got a more authentic source it would work better.

I agree with the "plant teacher" theory and have had insights on shrooms and found it to be the best anxiety aid I ever tried but I never have access to it and the insights have not been lasting.

If we had regular access to it and more psychedelic therapy under the influence it could help many people with anxiety and depression but unfortunately it's always either illegal or unaccepted.
 
if you want a long acting benzo that peaks as fast as ALPRAZOLAM but has the half life of CLONAZEPAM, then Diazepam would be your choice. Only issue is that it takes 40mg of DIAZEPAM to equal 2mg of CLONAZEPAM/ALPRAZOLAM. I'm not sure if 10mg is the highest dose for Valium, I feel like I heard there might be a 20 or 30mg pill, but I'll have to look up on that. I personally hate Lorazepam, its half as strong as Kpins or Xanax, and it feels way too hypnotic in my opinion. With the right dose of Valium, I find it to be the most euphoric and anxiolytic benzo/comparable to ALPRAZOLAM but long lasting.
 
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