Anti-psychotics

[ColonelPanic]

Hi guys,

I'm in the process of researching in order to produce a report backed up with facts, figures and science. I'm a post-grad physics student for reference, I have no formal training in medicine but I like to think I know a thing or two about how to go about this.
I strongly believe that it goes against the harm reduction principle of this forum to suggest the use of anti-psychotics to aid with a bad psychedelic trip. Of particular concern is an often permanent, albeit rare, side-effect of all anti-psychotics called tardive dyskinesia, ([url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardive_dyskinesia).[/URL] While TD is usually seen in long-term / high-dose patients it has been known to present at the outset of treatment with normal doses. I also believe that this particular class of drugs should never be ingested by those who don't need them because of their potential for physically and emotionally difficult experiences.

I appreciate that many of you may disagree and that is helpful for me I have provided a small questionnaire below and would be interested to hear from anyone who has used anti-psychotics in any capacity. Feel free to add any comments or observations you like

Note: AP = anti-psychotic
Q1 - What anti-psychotic(s) have you used? Please include dosages and avoid brand names if possible.
Q2 - Have you ever used an AP to aid with a difficult drug experience?
Q3 - Have you experienced any side-effects from using an AP? Please give as much detail as you can.


I will add more should anyone have any suggestions

Thank you for your time.

 

[jammin83]

IMO the bet atypical to use would be the sublinlingual olanzapine tabets or quietapine. I would steer clear of typical APs because of the rigidity factor. Both of these drugs are pretty well tolerated and usually a one time use doesn't pose much of a threat. This is an appropraite use an AP imo. Its always a good idea to have taken a drug before you use it in an emergency situation to see how you react to it.

people can react poorly to benzos too. benzos won't 'kill' a trip. benzos just make the experience more manageable. in certain situations i don't think a benzo is enough. I haven't been around a whole lot of people that have major meltdowns but I wouldn't hesitate to use an AP. an AP will kill a trip and usually just put the person to sleep.

for somebody naive to it, 5 mg of olanzapine or 150-200 mg of seroquel would be enough to kill the trip pretty effectively. olanzapine is most effective as an AP at around 10 mg but IME you prob wouldn't need that much. Seroquel isn't really an anti-psychotic until you reach around 200 mg.

I really don't like APs and I agree that they can be dangerous. I have major health problems because of them but in certain situations they can be appropriate.

 

[ColonelPanic]

I agree that they are very effective for killing a trip, but a bad trip is very rarely a physically dangerous situation and while the chances of serious side effects from one-time, reasonable doses are very small but still objectively more dangerous than the bad trip. They can induce severe depression on their own also, something which one may be more susceptible to after a bad trip.

I must admit I have no first hand experience of antipsychotics, although I've encountered a few people who use or have used them. Thank you for your input, would you agree that they should be considered a last resort rather than a first line defence though? I'm not saying they should be completely discluded but I think too casual an attitude towards them could potentially be very dangerous.

 

[jammin83]

Yeah, absolutely they are a last resort.

First would be non-drug methods, change of setting, change of music, go outside. Calm the person down, etc.

Second would be a benzo but dis-inhibiting someone who is on a psychotic trip doesn't always pan out so hot.

An AP would def be last on the list and NMS and TD are def not something you want to play around with. The atypicals don't have these issues as often and their affinities are a bit more ideal for seretonergic psychedelics. This would be if the person was in danger of hurting himself or others.

There are def trips that can be difficult and a person can grow from and learn from etc...but there are bad trips where every minute can be traumatic. Psychological damage can be just as damaging or even more damaging than physical danger. Discretion is needed and more often times than not, drugs don't need to be used at all. In an extreme emergency though I think they can be a valuable tool. Plenty don't agree with me but that's my take.

 

[Mracid]

How about half-antipsychotic half-Antihistamine, Hydroxyzine? It is a 5-HT2a and D2 antagonist with H1 reverse agonist/antagonist. Lacks any anticholinegic effect due to really low affinity to Muscarinics that could dissociate thoughts or perceptions making it a really light drug unless you take alot in which case you simply sleep, far less potent than any anti-psychotics.

Still the best way to skip a bad trip is work your way up the dosage untill you become a master. Lol.
I've seen people starting with a 3.5g shrooms, I was like yeah goahead and have fun thinking you are dead.(exactly what happened)

 

[ColonelPanic]

An AP would def be last on the list and NMS and TD are def not something you want to play around with. The atypicals don't have these issues as often and their affinities are a bit more ideal for seretonergic psychedelics. This would be if the person was in danger of hurting himself or others.

This is very useful information, thank you Would you be able to provide some examples of typical vs atypical for people like me who aren't well versed with APs? Your point about the potential for a traumatising bad trip is certainly valid, I guess the flip-side of the argument is that AP's or other intervention drugs give people a feeling of "well if I take too much I'll just swallow some Abilify later" and then dive in at doses they wouldn't, and shouldn't, normally consider.

Mracid: Do you have any first or second-hand experience with Hydroxyzine? I haven't come accross it before but from the information that immediately pops up online it looks promising