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Am I technically sober if the only thing I am addicted to is caffeine?

@ the original poster, I'm guessing you're trying to stay away from coffee? that's a really wise choice, caffeine was the one thing that *always* made me want to drink later in the day. Took me years to figure out that my love for good coffee (used to roast my own beans even:) was making me drink. Caffeine is powerful stuff and is just not for everyone. I'm more energetic w/o it, i remember last summer we went group camping a few times, everyone was such a slouch in the morning and i would be out and about doing a treasure hunt with the kids. You sleep better too, though that may have just been the opiates i'd been on after quitting coffee / drinking.
 
"Technically sober" and such is a load of bullshit; encouraged to a great deal by certain more hardcore varieties of 12 steppers. Caffeine? Nicotine? Let us take things further. Methadone? Suboxone? Painkillers for legitimate pain? Legitimately prescribed and legitimately needed psych meds? The question isn't what's in your body, that's far too narrow a definition of "clean." What we really need to talk about is how you are functioning in your life, and whether whatever you are using is a problem for you, whether it has deleterious consequences on your life.
 
Wise healthy choices and intentions do matter very much, I could not agree more. Am I not sober because I like to ride my bike to get exercise and catch that buzz since I stopped slamming just because I used to ride my bike to cop?! Hell fucking no! :)
 
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I have to agree with other posters in that the definitions of clean and sober are subjective, and the level at which the person functions and the sustainability of use related to functional level should be considered. Do I consider coffee and sugar to be drugs, absolutely. Both initiate a dopamine response. If someone had a hard heroin addiction and the only thing they use now is caffine and sugar am I going to say they aren't clean and sober - not a chance in hell. Am I going to think the 400 pound person who can barely function in life because they have eaten themselves into diabetes and other conditions is sober and healthy - nope.

Most psych drugs have been show to be tolerance building an addictive in nature, whether people abuse them or not. If a person can function in life and be productive, I'm not going to argue their sobriety whether their on antidepressants or maintenance. My addiction to specific substances was killing me at a quick rate and left me unable to care for myself until I stopped using them. Now I use caffine, nicotine (trying to quit), and kratom. I will look anyone in the eyes and proudly state that yes, I am clean and sober. If you want to judge my use and call me an addict in active addiction then I think you larger mental health issues at play, as none of these substances negatively affect my life, and quitting them is not incapacitating to me.

Just about everything humans consume, including food, has an affect on the functioning state of our mind. Too much of anything, whether it be heroin, caffine, or sugar can quickly render us nonfunctional and in ill health. If we are trapped in a seeking/using behavioral pattern that takes precedence over basic life functions than it is problematic, regardless of the substance, and should be taken seriously and treated with respect.

Overcoming our struggles should be met with positivity and support by the community at large, and judging another addict for what they have used and are currently using is harmful. In my opinion, not only does it indicate that the person judging has larger issues that need to be resolved than just addiction, it indicates that we still have a long way to go in order for our problems to be productively addressed by society in general, and until something changes, we will still be a marginalized sub population hiding in shadows afraid for society as a whole to discover our past for fear that it negatively impacts our chances for a successful future.
 
Once again, I really cannot agree more with you! I do believe there are some universal normative standards that go into being a healthy person, such as being kind and gentle with yourself, and of course love, courage, bravery and a healthy dose of self respect, but how we define this is up to us and our respective cultures at the end of the day - just as long as we are not harming others or getting in the way of how they define "the good life."
 
I would say yes. Coffee doesn't really impair one's thinking or prevent you from functioning. Therefore, it isn't really a drug nor is tobacco (although tobacco isn't good for your health). If you were drinking, I would agree that you weren't technically sober as it is possible to actually be addicted to alcohol rather than it simply being a habit like caffeine can be.
 
Well, to play the devil's advocate, I have known more than one person who had to stop drinking coffee for heart related reasons. From what they described, there was a classic withdrawal syndrome and PAWS. Is it possible to be "addicted" to coffee? Absolutely. Whether or not this specific kind of situation applies however is a case by case thing, and whether or not it applies to the OP's situation depends on their specific situation.
 
toothpastedog said:
Well, to play the devil's advocate, I have known more than one person who had to stop drinking coffee for heart related reasons. From what they described, there was a classic withdrawal syndrome and PAWS. Is it possible to be "addicted" to coffee? Absolutely. Whether or not this specific kind of situation applies however is a case by case thing, and whether or not it applies to the OP's situation depends on their specific situation.
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Coffee does affect a lot of people very negatively. It is also definitely an addiction. I can't accomplish anything without a ridiculous amount of caffeine in my body lol But I wouldn't call it not being sober..
 
Precisely, which is why I like the word sober. It relates to a particular mind state, one unimpeded by a heedlessness that may or may not characterize one's drug use. It's quite telling about the nature of addiction that one can use a substance (caffeine) that can lead to addiction, dependency, withdrawal, etc, yet remain sober. When drug use leads to heedlessness, that is one (in my opinion) gets away from a place of sobriety.
 
Personally caffeine is the one substance that i use in low to high doses depending on the time of year in a sense. I go through high/peak use taking about 600-1000mg a day in standard dosing amounts and times. So right now I am medium high, i take 400mg in the morning before getting out of bed at 630am then a 200mg booster at 10am and one at 2pm then i abstain. I also take generic caffeine pills so i can go down slowly. My low usage is 200-600mg a day but i can never fully take a day off.

Based on everything ive gone through i consider my well planned, budgeted, and executed drug use to be in line with my ideals of "sobriety" its like i said prior to becoming an addict "if at any point of the day i were to get killed id most likely be completely sober" and that to me is a good goal. Basically if you call me on the phone any time of the day odds are im sober, sure select hours like 8-10pm ill most likely be lightly stoned but otherwise no. My drug use is basically 7-10g of weed a week (usually after 8pm) and 3-5 hits of L every 7-14 days... that is sobriety to me!

Its a personal definition. If you can look around and go "i am happy with who i am, my plans for the future, every day i feel like i am better off then the previous and i wouldnt want it any other way" it helps to you know not be doing drugs while you say those things to yourself ;)
 
Personally, my sobriety needs more mescaline :) I'll make sure no one is gonna be able to reach me on the phone for that though ;)
 
^oh god quick deviation based on the phone idea, i work with my best friend (technically my ex of a 6 year relationship) so her computer stops working and the office calls me im tripping i dont answer obviously... so they make her call me from her cell phone when i knew shes suppose to be at work so of course i answer. It was about a password i use every day and couldnt recollect it was so embarrassing to me... people at work know i lead an interesting life so yeah i was more embarrassed that they got a hold of me then tripping. Talk about being motified like knowing shes in a semi quiet office going "you dont remember your password, the password you use every day" (didnt know i was tripping) I just said jokingly the next day "come on you people know me you should have assumed if i do something everyday i dont remember it because my mind doesnt work like that, A next time you call me and its weird just say "szuko said his brain doesnt work like that and hung up..." Literally mortifying to think of an office of my coworkers being like "szuko cant remember his password... dude brags about being the most intelligent and attractive among us but cant recall a 6 year old password"
 
My personal definition of sobriety (I know it's not really sober but wtv) is being able to accomplish everything thing you could by being actually sober, without your life being affected negatively in any way. For example, I still indulge with various substances, but have complete control over them (hard to believe but it's true), with no financial,social or any other impact. If I'd lose control of any of those aspects, it would be different
 
^which is why I like the understanding of sobriety that emphasizes whether or not a behavior causes heedlessness :) There are no black and white, one size fits all approaches to this game.
 
I just drink 32 oz of black coffee a day. It's what I need to keep things moving and wake up and be alert. Plus I like the taste of it. I've never tried not drinking it. It's been a habit for the past 10 years and it has not been negatively affecting my life so imma keep on drinking my coffee.
 
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"sober" is relative not only to the person but where they're at. if i'm at my low, when i get back to just smoking weed i feel sober. while i wouldn't share the number at a meeting, i'm counting the days since my last hit of a "real drug." then after a while my situation improves and giving up weed is the next step in the right direction. after i give up weed, caffeine is always next on my list.

caffeine is a drug and it acts like one. fucks up my natural state, messes with sleep, reduces appetite, agitates mental illness, and it's is going to make me want that valium all the more.

"sober" can be what i'm doing too. working out quickly becomes part of my sobriety.

i realize that fucks up the count.
 
^I like this approach to sobriety the most I think. BL - no, the world, needs more people who are able to look at recovery in life's wholeness like that :)
 
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Having been a poly-drug user for a number of years (but thankfully free from most of them), I choose to treat each substance individually. Terms like clean and sober are very subjective.

When people criticize my drug use, I always tell them that life is a mind-altering substance. After all, everything what we eat to how much sleep we get will influence our mental state in some way. Even the weather can affect someone's mood to a great degree.

Likewise, what qualifies as an addiction is a matter of opinion as well. One cup of coffee a day? Five?? Ten??? If I went off of my depression and anxiety medications right now I would suffer withdrawal symptoms, so you could probably say that I'm addicted to them. However, I personally don't consider them to be a problem if I take them as prescribed to function optimally and not to get "high" (which itself is a vague term), and I don't drive or do anything dangerous if I do feel impaired in any way.

I would say that if caffeine is your only "addiction" then you are doing pretty well. However, if you feel as though you can't function without mega-dosing then you may want to cut down a bit.

Now, what I don't like (and this is a big pet peeve of mine so thank you for the opportunity to rant about it, LOL) is when somebody, for instance, lectures me about having a beer while they're blowing their cigarette smoke in my face... or lectures me about taking a pill while they're spilling their beer all over me!

I wouldn't worry so much about titles. Hope this helps a bit. Take care my friend :D

Peace, Love and Faith,
Dreamflyer 8o
 
dreamflyer said:
Now, what I don't like (and this is a big pet peeve of mine so thank you for the opportunity to rant about it, LOL) is when somebody, for instance, lectures me about having a beer while they're blowing their cigarette smoke in my face... or lectures me about taking a pill while they're spilling their beer all over me!
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I have experienced something like this a lot with cannabis and especially entheogens (which is kinda crazy given what entheogens are and how they work, but just goes to show you what little the average person thinks they know about drugs). Jfc I also find it annoying as hell.
 
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