• 🇬🇧󠁿 🇸🇪 🇿🇦 🇮🇪 🇬🇭 🇩🇪 🇪🇺
    European & African
    Drug Discussion


    Welcome Guest!
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
  • EADD Moderators: axe battler

The 3-FPM Discussion Thread V2. Fumes of Fiend Fuel

Sprout

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
Messages
7,377

In order to cement its place as a popular drug of recreational human usage, here is the dedicated #1 EADD resource for 3-FPM information, data, and experience. =D

What Is It?
3-FPM is a stimulant drug closely related to Phenmetrazine. Phenmetrazine was widely available as the HCl salt in the 1960's, under the name of Preludin. Prescribed as an appetite suppressant, its anorectic properties were known and sought after, particularly as a replacement for Amphetamine compounds and salts thereof, which were rapidly becoming known for abuse. The most popular recreational users of Preludin were arguably The Beatles, and their use of Phenmetrazine is documented repeatedly such as here.

Patented in Germany in 1952, Phenmetrazine HCl rapidly received approval once pharmacological data was published in 1954, with Preludin being used clinically in the same year. Compared to Methamphetamine and Cocaine, Phenmetrazine boasted superior anorectic effects with reduced impact on the PNS and reduced side-effects in both animal and human studies. After just 5 years on the mass market, Phenmetrazine was withdrawn from use in Sweden in 1959 with 1965 marking the last year of widespread, licit manufacture. This meteoric rise and fall as a pharmaceutical remains a large part of the lore surrounding Phenmetrazine and can be almost certainly attributed to reports of abuse of Preludin in the US.

3-FPM Molecular Structure.

378.png



Structure And Pharmacology
3-FPM exists as a functional group isomer of Phenmetrazine, the Meta- Carbon of the Phenyl ring has been Fluorinated, resulting in the first recorded Halogenated Phenylmorpholine to see human use. The academic literature is sparse when searched for 3-FPM, instead it is termed PAL-593 as was its name in the patent documentation.
As Phenmetrazine is the closest compound to have seen human use, its clinical data can be assessed and interpreted for tentative application to 3-FPM. The LD50 value for Phenmetrazine consumed orally by rats is 370mg/kg, 125mg/kg for mice. 125mg/kg is also attained when intraperitonial administration occurs, with subcutaneous administration having a value of 195mg/kg. These values would give relative human dosage of Phenmetrazine as approaching 14,000mg for a 70kg subject, clearly this is ridiculous. When primates are exposed to Phenmetrazine, we see a vastly reduced picture with 15-20mg/kg as the LD50 for adult monkeys and just 5mg/kg for young monkeys. 5mg/kg equates to a 350mg dose of Phenmetrazine being sufficient to kill 50% of test subjects of ~70kg. There exists data suggesting that the lowest recorded dose resulting in fatality is 1.3mg/kg, this is the figure for Methamphetamine and not Phenmetrazine. Currently, no data exists for the LD50 of 3-FPM in humans. The subjective effects of 3-FPM can be attributed to its function as a releasing agent of Dopamine and Norepinepherine, with a slight affinity for Serotonin.

EC50DATSERTNET
3-FPM43255830
Phenmetrazine131776550
D-MPH41>1000345.1
D-Amp24.8N/A7.1




Dosage

Preludin was prescribed at dosages of 12.5mg/25mg/50mg and 75mg to be taken orally, once per day. Anecdotal evidence exists that most abuse of this form of Phenmetrazine was done by crushing the tablet to a fine powder and insufflating the powder, vapourising or I.V. injection - all of which are more dangerous than oral and more difficult to ascertain safe dosages for.
As a tentative guide, and subject to massive variation for environmental and biological reasons:

Oral:
Light: 25mg.
Common: 30-40mg.
Strong: 60mg+

3-FPM appears to be generally well-absorbed from the gut, with first alerts perceptible within 20 minutes on an empty stomach. As an aside, like with oral Amphetamines it is likely that altering the pH of the GI tract to be more basic will result in slightly improved absorption. This is often achieved through Calcium Carbonate tablets 30 minutes prior to ingestion. Main effects will last about 3 or 4 hours, taking 2 more to tail off. Taking consecutive doses before prior doses have worn off will result in an extended duration of often uncomfortable residual stimulation.

Nasal:
Light: 20mg.
Common: 30mg.
Strong: 55mg+

As with most Amphetamines, 3-FPM appears to absorb fairly rapidly at a slightly greater rate than oral administration. However, if one is to use 3-FPM intranasally they should be aware of the highly painful, uncomfortable and debilitating pain signals that you will experience. No matter how fine the powder or good the technique, the powder will burn every mucus membrane it touches, it is acute in duration but intensity is greater than that of EPD and approaching 2C-I territory. Duration is less than oral at 1-2 hours of main effects but still with a similar time spent coping with subjectively more uncomfortable residual stimulation than ingestion would provide.

Plugged:
Light: 15-20mg.
Common: 25mg.
Strong: 40mg+.

Efficient, rapidly absorbed and with a solid duration, rectal administration of 3-FPM in roughly 1ml or 2 of sterile, warm water using a needleless oral syringe provides many positives if only one can get over squirting drug solution up their rectum. Expect roughly 4 hours of positive stimulation, peaking at the 2nd hour, and a 2 hour ride to baseline that feels smoother than other ROA's.

Vaping/Chasing the Dragon:
Light: 10-15mg.
Common: 20-25mg.
Strong: 35mg+.

My personal choice when it comes to getting 3-FPM into my system, vapourising 3-FPM on aluminium foil and inhaling the contents provides a highly euphoric, short lasting, fiendish Dopamine hit in just a few short seconds. 3-FPM combusts at a very low temperature and should be heated carefully and evenly, running the liquified matter a short distance while keeping the heat behind it provides massive lungfuls of vapour so intoxicating. If going this route, exercise caution: the high lasts all of 10 minutes and the rapid reward of Dopamine flooding one's synapses can lead to compulsive redosing at higher and higher levels for longer than initially intended.

I.V
Light: 10mg
Common: 20mg.
Strong: 30mg.

I.V. use is probably the most dangerous way one could choose to administer 3-FPM, it is literally impossible to overstate the risks associated with poor aseptic technique or unsterile products and practices. If you do not already have experience with intravenous use of powerful drugs then you are lucky, do not start for 3-FPM, do not start for any drug. Blood, pain and hypodermic needlepoints are not often associated with pleasurable and voluntary use and once one begins shooting 3-FPM directly into their bloodstream, chances are it stopped being fun a while ago.
After a minute or two of admittedly glorious Dopamine derived rush, one begins to sober up. Colours fade to their usual state, breath leaves the lungs like menthol, the mind accelerates like a Bullet Train and slows to the treacle we are accustomed to in just under a minute. As a powerful psychostimulant, one would not expect to see one's eyelids droop upon IV administration of a large dose of 3-FPM, yet such an occurrence has been experienced and reported by at least two IV users in myself and Cr00k. As with other rapid ROA's, IV use will quickly skyrocket your tolerance, with 25mg becoming 250mg in a very short space of time.
One should also remember that some posters who used via IV report incredibly compulsive redosing which can be destructive very easily. 3-FPM inevitably exhibits tremor as a side-effect which can present problems when maneuvering a needle's tip into one's circulatory system. Combine that with the potentially severe visual issues one can experience as a result of Pound coin pupils and hypertension and it becomes clear why IV use of a drug that causes vasoconstriction and tachycardia is rarely advised. Especially when one may be shooting up 12 times an hour. 8(
Also, early IV reports from Cr00k suggested highly abnormal tissue damage and subsequent neuronal pain in the joints after multiple injections of concentrations above 42mg/ml which equates to around 400-500mg per dose. Subsequently I used 3-FPM via IV myself, wishing to avoid severe pain I opted for a concentration of 33mg/ml (1g/30ml) and injected 1ml of 3-FPM/Sterile Na+/Cl- into my forearm vein. No pain was felt and the injection was without issue, a slight stimulation was felt and so a few minutes later I prepared another 3ml. Administered at 1ml per injection, another 100mg/3ml was injected over the next hour with only slight pain reported on the final injection. As enjoyable as it was, I opted to chase the rest of my 3-FPM as the reward was simply not worth the risk of IV use.

Recently, some people have reported IV use of 3-FPM at aqueous concentrations exceeding 42mg/ml by a substantial margin without any adverse effects reported. My personal use has seen 250mg/ml regarded as a concentration that did not result in similar symptoms as Cr00k but a dose to be regarded as nothing but stupid. 8)

Physical Effects

Increased stimulation/energy levels.
Increased Cardiac Output.
Appetite Suppression to a greater extent than seen in other stimulants.
Increased perspiration.
Dilated pupils.
Bruxism.
Vasoconstriction leading to ED.
Poor temperature regulation.
Reduced thirst.
Increased speech.
Involuntary movements.
Nystagmus.
Exaggerated patterns of speech.
Reduced sense of taste.
Possibly reduced or improved visual acuity.
Sexual arousal.

Cognitive Effects


Euphoria.
Accelerated thought.
Increased brightness of colours.
Improved analysis.
Increased focus.
Improved motivation.
Anxiety.
Improved creativity.

Obviously, these effects may be experienced in varying amounts based on dosage, ROA, time of consumption and many other factors.
It is also vital to remember that prolonged stimulant sessions have a habit of becoming nasty, a la Amphetamine Psychosis. Abuse of 3-FPM combined with poor diet and rest will also result in the grandiose, persecutory, supernatural delusions that stimulants are famed for. However, in my experience 3-FPM is far more forgiving in similar circumstances than Amphetamines, producing less anxiety and physical tension after equal sessions.
Please be aware that stimulants have a habit of biting you on the arse after binging, 3-FPM is no exception and if binging on it it is even more vital to keep track: it's all too easy for Saturday to become Tuesday... ;)


Combinations

While engaging in drug combos with a stimulant that hasn’t seen 2 years of use will never be anything but stupidly dangerous, 3-FPM doesn’t seem explicitly dangerous in tandem with most popular drugs.

Heroin/Opioids: There isn’t much to say aside from pointing out that combining stimulants and Smack is infamous for dropping bull elephants. However, there doesn’t seem to be any particular problems with this specific combo. I will say that it’s actually quite a let-down, it sounds far better than it feels given the mental stimulation of 3-FPM takes away from the empty bliss of Heroin. Other opioids feel more suited, Fentanyl shares the duration and ROA’s and so was my combo of choice – probably the most dangerous thing one could choose, though.

SCRA’s: Cannabinoids in conjunction with 3-FPM vary wildly in effects, obviously reflecting on the dose and specific CRA. Anxiety, paranoia and psychosis are the #1 worry once one remembers that their heart rate should be below 160. Be careful, keep the dose low, and make sure you are well aware of how each compound affects you mentally. 5F-AKB48 and AM-2201 are my personal flavour, and seem relatively well tolerated. PB-22/3-FPM sent me psychotic, however.

GABA-ergics: Perhaps the most common combination is that of 3-FPM and Alcohol, simply due to availability. As with any other stim, alcohol seems ineffective until six hours pass and you’re vomiting into your tin foil…
Benzo’s are excellent to come down with, but the duration is important. 3-FPM’s tail-end is quite stingy, and it’s not uncommon to drop double your benzo dose and feel nothing through the residual stimulation.

Ceres informs me that when chasing 3-FPM, if a UVB flashlight is shone on the melted compound, a green colour is given off by unvapourised 3-FPM. ;)



So that's my first Megathread, written in one tweaked-out evening. Enjoy, EADD, and viva la 3-FPM!

=D <3

 
Original Megathread - data in OP.
Well guys, we completed the thread almost purely on the power of stim-rants. Round two is underway!

~Sprout


What ROA do you use?...
Pretty much always nasally. I recognise those different effect profiles but I've experienced all of them from one bag. At the start I always got a strong rush, it's only after I became acclimatised that I noticed variation. Oh wow I'm also using it to replace kratom, mainly because I wasn't nailing the missus enough. I mean she does probably care about my health and other parts of kratom addiction, but IME she'll overlook them if she's being rattled hard and often
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Tangentially relevant to the thread, and not sure if this runs too close to banned chemistry discussion, but I was wondering if there's a good way to O-demthylate DXM before it's ingested or possibly something to take with it that will O-demethylate on the way down. My org chem knowledge is a bit rudimentary and mostly from wikipedia, but it looks like to do so chemically would be beyond the reach of kitchen chemistry (not too hard if you had an actual lab set up, but I think my flatmates would object if I started refluxing stuff on the kitchen table), so the preferred approach would be if you could just eat an enzyme and take care of it before it hits the liver. The reason why this is matters is DXO (the O-desmethyl product of DXM) is basically inactive as a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, and a stronger NMDA antagonist. Normally your liver would take care of this, but my CYP2D6 is shut down by fluoxetine at the moment so it both won't be doing its job on the DXM, and the fluoxetine raises the risk of serotonin syndrome in combination with DXM.

So is there some supplement I could buy that would take care of the O-demethylation in my digestive tract, or am I just going to be stuck gambling with serotonin syndrome for now?
 
Providing a Tek for demethylation of DXM is beyond the boundaries of this forum.
Also remember that the metabolites of DXM possess central Opioid activity as well as NMDA antagonism.

You are taking an unnecessary gamble with DXM/SSRI/stimulants - choose a less dirty NMDA-modulator and you can mitigate the issues.
 
Providing a Tek for demethylation of DXM is beyond the boundaries of this forum.
Also remember that the metabolites of DXM possess central Opioid activity as well as NMDA antagonism.

You are taking an unnecessary gamble with DXM/SSRI/stimulants - choose a less dirty NMDA-modulator and you can mitigate the issues.

Any idea what would be a good choice for that? I know K has some degree of serotonin re-uptake inhibition effect, but I don't know how it compares on Ki to DXM as to whether that would be more or less of a concern. Beyond that I have no idea what's available in the field of NMDA antagonists.

Looking at wiki, apparently l-phenylalanine is a glycine site antagonist, which seems like it should be worth looking into. Any idea about interactions, effectiveness etc. of it?
 
Is this something people on prescribed SSRI's and SNRI's should be concerned with?

Tripsit puts SSRIs and amphetamines at low risk, for what it's worth. The info sheet for my fluoxetine caps puts fits as a 1-10/10,000 chance side effect, and does not specifically say anything about any risk from combining with amphetamines (I would assume that, given amphetamines are used as ADHD meds, if there was a risk it would be stated, but that's not risk-free reasoning). The info sheet for sertraline mentions fits as a possible side effect, with no probability given, and again doesn't mention amphetamines as a drug of concern in combination with it. So in conclusion, I'd rate it an "ehhhh, probably not too much of a worry", but I'd like to hear from someone better informed than me.
 
Tripsit puts SSRIs and amphetamines at low risk, for what it's worth. The info sheet for my fluoxetine caps puts fits as a 1-10/10,000 chance side effect, and does not specifically say anything about any risk from combining with amphetamines (I would assume that, given amphetamines are used as ADHD meds, if there was a risk it would be stated, but that's not risk-free reasoning). The info sheet for sertraline mentions fits as a possible side effect, with no probability given, and again doesn't mention amphetamines as a drug of concern in combination with it. So in conclusion, I'd rate it an "ehhhh, probably not too much of a worry", but I'd like to hear from someone better informed than me.

While the increase in seizure probability exists, it does bear pointing out that it's very rare to find a drug that doesn't lower the threshold - benzodiazepines and barbiturates are all I can think of as exceptions. Excitory impulses are expected from most drugs, seizures result from overwhelming and unmediated excitation. It's no surprise that such a result is possible.
Its relation to recipients of S/NRI medications is not extremely significant, though combining threshold reducing drugs increases propensity more than either alone.
 
Anyone who uses 3-FPM should be aware of the capacity to produce "Meth Mouth" symptomology. (Related Academic Review).

The colloquial name is a misnomer - the risks apply to all potent stimulants.

Xerostomia - the reduction is salivary secretion is a major cause of the dry mouth typical of stimulants. Saliva usually washes away the acids produced by oral biofilms (through metabolism of Glucose primarily), interfering with this simple process allows the concentration of corrosive metabolic products to skyrocket on the dental surfaces. Acidic erosion of enamel and eventual progression to the main body of the tooth will rapidly lead to tooth decay and gum damage.

Bruxism - unconscious grinding of the teeth (gurning) produces massive damage as a result of mechanical forces steadily destroying enamel and eroding the tooth surface.
Bacteria rapidly spread to any new location made accessible by erosion and fragmentation, and their metabolism of organic matter leads to major cavities.

Inconsistent hygiene - it's very easy to forget adequate brushing in the midst of stimulant-fueled insanity. Without removing organic debris from the diet from the tooth surfaces you are essentially providing a feast for the microbial colonies in exchange for their production and excretion of corrosive chemicals as waste products.

Direct chemical corrosion - 3-FPM/MA are directly damaging to tissue and organic membranes, any surface in the mouth they touch will become visibly irritated, with sores developing readily on the tongue, cheek and gum.

Poor diet choices - hearty low sugar and freshly prepared meals are not a mainstay of stimulant abuse. Instead leading to reliance on cheap, sugar-rich junk food and drink which acts to compound and reinforce the oral damage.

Vapourisation - perhaps the most efficient way to ensure maximum exposure of every surface to corrosion. The use of pipes/inhaling tubes (tooters) causes the corrosive smoke to be directed and concentrated on the location they are pointed at. Clearly visible is the damage to the tongue surface and ulcer formation if the vapour is directed towards the cheek. Unless the implement is held behind the teeth the enamel will be completely destroyed by concentrated chemical decomposition in a very short space of time, directly leading to complete and total death of the the tooth and the black necrotic appearance it provides. The exhalation of smoke is less direct, spreading to all points in the mouth. The vapours will condense on the posterior surface of the anterior teeth primarily and damage the structure and functionality even further.

Repeated inhalation of plumes of smoke will obviously reduce the Oxygen concentration of the oral cavity, leading to major changes in the composition of the microbiome.
Selection is driven towards the increase in presence of facultative and obligate anaerobes which typically display novel metabolic pathways with relatively toxic waste products - a good example is Hydrogen Sulphide (H2S) which is possibly the absolute last compound you should invite into your mouth, except maybe Cyanide.
 
Last edited:
Took my NMDA antagonist questions off to NPD. Next weekend I'll be interested to see how my tolerance is compared to last saturday, I am hoping it will be unchanged/slightly reduced due to having a week of recovery instead of a week of 3-FPM use, but we'll see.
 
Took my NMDA antagonist questions off to NPD. Next weekend I'll be interested to see how my tolerance is compared to last saturday, I am hoping it will be unchanged/slightly reduced due to having a week of recovery instead of a week of 3-FPM use, but we'll see.

The guys over there are far more knowledgeable than I so you'll get a much better response and answers to any question, usually along with the answers to six different questions you never asked and a complimentary subscription to an obscure journal on Himalayan Yodeling. ;)

DRA's tend to elicit a tolerance which grows at an exponential rate but also reduces with remarkable pace.
 
Just finishing off the 3f we received on Saturday, and despite my initial reservations it has turned out to be our favourite batch to date! It may not be the most potent, but its a good combination of rusher and creeper with minimal side effects. There's a good balance of recreational and functional effects, very little PNS stimulation and lasts long enough to facilitate other activities. The horniness just keeps building and building and our fantasies have got kinkier and kinkier as a result. This is an all round winner and I would buy shitloads if they could guarantee it being the same (that's if I actually had any money).
 
Last edited:
A quick and blunt heads-up: numbness and parasthesia in the hands after extended 3-FPM use was reported by cRook a while back along with pain - I'm currently experiencing exactly the same in both of my hands, particularly of the knuckle area and fingers. Not entirely sure if it's vascular or neurogenic. Much worse upon waking.

If you start to experience any numbness - do not ignore it, it isn't coincidental.
Be careful, pay attention to any effect in the hands or feet.
Vascular damage can be mediated through vasodilators, keeping up some semblance of nutrient intake. Neuralgia just fucking hurts and is indicative of far more serious damage.
 
I wonder how Sharapovafistpump is going. He really gave it a nudge and ended up in hospital. I am really curious what his diagnosis was and how he is going now. Like any drug i guess if you push too hard it starts to push back.
 
A quick and blunt heads-up: numbness and parasthesia in the hands after extended 3-FPM use was reported by cRook a while back along with pain - I'm currently experiencing exactly the same in both of my hands, particularly of the knuckle area and fingers. Not entirely sure if it's vascular or neurogenic. Much worse upon waking.

If you start to experience any numbness - do not ignore it, it isn't coincidental.
Be careful, pay attention to any effect in the hands or feet.
Vascular damage can be mediated through vasodilators, keeping up some semblance of nutrient intake. Neuralgia just fucking hurts and is indicative of far more serious damage.
It sounds like it could be a vascular issue to me bro especially if it is worse when your laying down. I really dont know enough about this drug to make much of a comment but it is certainly cause for concern if you are experiencing numbness in the extremities.
 
I wonder how Sharapovafistpump is going. He really gave it a nudge and ended up in hospital. I am really curious what his diagnosis was and how he is going now. Like any drug i guess if you push too hard it starts to push back.

To be brutally honest it's no wonder. What did he do 18 days awake or something? I do feel sorry for him but he knew the risks. One does not stay awake for over 2 weeks on any drug without doing some damage. Your body needs sleep.

Hope he's alright and has perhaps learnt this time. Every single drug that's come out; mephedrone, mdpv, mxe, 3-fpm, he has been among the biggest abusers of on this site. Abusing various unknown RC's in some cases for months on end according to his posts his use was always rather worrying. Hopefully we hear something from him soon, and this will deter others from going on week+ long benders with a substance we know so little about the long term effects of.

There's more than just him being massively irresponsible with this stuff here, despite all the advice of "approach with caution new RC" it seems nearly everyone taking the stuff is doing multi gram benders.
 
koneko said:
Is this something people on prescribed SSRI's and SNRI's should be concerned with?

I'm prescribed 225mg XR Venlafaxine (SNRI) and 72mg XR methylphenidate daily.
 
A quick and blunt heads-up: numbness and parasthesia in the hands after extended 3-FPM use was reported by cRook a while back along with pain - I'm currently experiencing exactly the same in both of my hands, particularly of the knuckle area and fingers. Not entirely sure if it's vascular or neurogenic. Much worse upon waking.

If you start to experience any numbness - do not ignore it, it isn't coincidental.
Be careful, pay attention to any effect in the hands or feet.
Vascular damage can be mediated through vasodilators, keeping up some semblance of nutrient intake. Neuralgia just fucking hurts and is indicative of far more serious damage.

I've noticed somewhat cold extremities and specifically some tinglies in my little and ring finger on my right hand when it's been lying on my desk for a while. Aspirin seemed to help with the coldness, and lifting up my hand and flexing my fingers a bunch seems to banish the tinglies. Seems to support that it's a vein thing.
 
A quick and blunt heads-up: numbness and parasthesia in the hands after extended 3-FPM use was reported by cRook a while back along with pain - I'm currently experiencing exactly the same in both of my hands, particularly of the knuckle area and fingers. Not entirely sure if it's vascular or neurogenic. Much worse upon waking.

If you start to experience any numbness - do not ignore it, it isn't coincidental.
Be careful, pay attention to any effect in the hands or feet.
Vascular damage can be mediated through vasodilators, keeping up some semblance of nutrient intake. Neuralgia just fucking hurts and is indicative of far more serious damage.

I also experience numbness in my fingers and toes, along with purple/blue blotches on my hands. However, I've suffered this ever since I stopped using needles around 2010 having blown all the accessible veins in my hands and feet. It's slowly getting better, but I still suffer in cold weather. Although my 3fpm use aggravates it (not surprising for a vasoconstrictor), it hasn't got any worse over the last 14 months. Needle use is the common factor with you, crook and myself so maybe it's down to that?
 
I also experience numbness in my fingers and toes, along with purple/blue blotches on my hands. However, I've suffered this ever since I stopped using needles around 2010 having blown all the accessible veins in my hands and feet. It's slowly getting better, but I still suffer in cold weather. Although my 3fpm use aggravates it (not surprising for a vasoconstrictor), it hasn't got any worse over the last 14 months. Needle use is the common factor with you, crook and myself so maybe it's down to that?


Anyone with a history of IV would also be experiencing the same if that was the case, and while I will always have the most perverse and almost sexual connection to that soul destroying hollow Hell of the spike, I got into the habit (yeah, injecting Heroin puns, for all the family) of rotating sites for every shot - into an entirely different limb if I could help it and drop IV use entirely whenever I was starting to visibly reduce the carrying capacity of some veins (for non-IV users: typically veins become narrower and recede further into the tissue once perforated a few times). Only blown two out in my entire ~6 year love affair and that was from shooting H/3-FPM/Fentanyl (The Sproutball, eh Mikey? That's your legacy, you Polack fuck! ;) <3 ) in one rig into my favourite/most easily accessible vessels (top of wrist and inner forearm) with the complete anaesthesia masking the mutilation that tremor, fiending, nystagmus and hypodermic needles tend to cause in combination. I did have a nurse completely collapse a massive vein running from near my shoulder all the way between my tri/biceps and through the cubital region to the wrist, visible for the entire length of my arm and with excellent width - the dipshit managed to go right through both sides 6 times, 2mm between each puncture, just to draw 5ml of blood before sticking another point in the same hole to canulate me as poorly as it was physically possible to, 5 days straight with the exact same one, slipping out every two hours and with no attempt to sterilise the area or remove the blood drenched dressing - my dog could have hit that vein first try with his eyes closed and followed healthcare protocol better...
But yeah, I still have 99.9% of normal veins so it can't be that.
I'm not too bothered about my vascular system tbqh, really don't wanna go into the details but my heart muscle has sustained wayyy more damage than the vessels so peripheral vascular problems aren't my concern.

My nerves though? Yeah they are my #1 concern.
When I say numb, painful and with parasthesia, I'm not talking 'tingling' in my pinky or Ergotesque vasoconstriction pain - I'm talking being woken up 4 times a night with fire ants under my skin and a massively reduced ability to bend my fingers with pain that is either stabbing or resembling an electric shock running up the outside of my thumb.
I shattered a knuckle a few years ago and did some nerve damage, took a long while for most of the sensation to return.
Given MS runs in my family I am kinda terrified of neuronal issues.
Probably a good idea to remember that Vasculitis is a big side-effect of Phenmetrazine, reports of 3-FPM doing the same keep popping up and that Vasculitis can readily cause Peripheral Neuropathy.
 
Mmmh I think I might order some of this soon, it's been definitely too long! :D
And I'm also craving a good stimulant experience.
 
Top