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  • EADD Moderators: axe battler | Pissed_and_messed

Regional pills/MDMA Discussion: Nae vendor discussion.

On that matter: pills with poor quality binding agents or inappropriate filler will dump the dose instantly once they hit the stomach acid.
Enteric coated pills are specifically designed to release the drug at a slower rate in acidic conditions than they do in presence of base.

If you're noticing less intense effects and a longer duration from the coated pills it's something to consider.
 
I was actually thinking that the other day.

Dutch pills with coating will indeed take longer.

But I've crushed them up to try see if there was any difference. None what so ever. Same effect except come up was dramatically faster.

So it sends me right back to the glycidate if racemic etc isn't the cause.

Edit - that's based on same pill batch same type of setting spaced 2 months.
 
Saw this guys profile on MDMAteam
http://justlikey0uimagined.tumblr.com

Take a look through the pics at the ounce of MDA crystal. Looks outrageous! :)

Ps yeah I don't think from the stuff I've taken its Levo MDMA, I think it's still racemic. Just a shit precursor makes shit gear, how would you go about making cocaine without coca leaves, what's happened here is essentially the same thing, no longer using anything even derived from safrass is bound to make a difference. The people who've never taken a pre drought pill don't know these new things aren't the full deal.
 
I was actually thinking that the other day.

Dutch pills with coating will indeed take longer.

But I've crushed them up to try see if there was any difference. None what so ever. Same effect except come up was dramatically faster.

So it sends me right back to the glycidate if racemic etc isn't the cause.


I don't touch MDxx in either form these days but my position has remained the same since the first time this was brought up: the drug is not magic, it is not unique, it is governed by chemistry in production, psychopharmacology in recreation, and biology in absorption in just the same way as every other drug.
If there is an actual difference then consideration of such factors will be far more productive than the blind guesses and ridiculous myths this debate seems to attract.

A combination of the coating and excipients of the pill make a massive difference.
The exact ratio of enantiomers in a drug that only works fully if used as an equal mix of D- and L- is even bigger. Quite a few of the posters in this thread were oh so ready to jump on my suggesting it as a possibility because, and there's a few key words, the standard synthetic routes produce the racemic compound. Funnily enough the time frame of the change is right around the time many labs stopped using the standard synthetic routes because the main reactant was changed to one that will not form a true (50:50) racemic mixture but instead selectively generate a higher proportion of the isomer that corresponds with its own.
A new reagent of a majorly different structure at the atomic level will not react at the same rate when undergoing the same catalytic process if the duration of exposure is a constant. Black market superlabs have a lot to lose if their production rate falls by the tiniest fraction.


Funny how a combination of those three factors goes a long way to explaining the debate, isn't it?
8)
 
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It's hardly a ridiculous myth that the precursor has changed though Sprout now is it? There was a difference people have said for years between MDMA made from safrole and MDMA made from PMK, but it stands to reason there would be a difference between batches made with PMK and batches made with an analogue of PMK, which has never seen or been derived from sassafras.
This is what people who've done their research and been popping pills for longer than either of us have been alive have came to and I agree with them and I've been dropping 12+ years myself.
 
In your eagerness to jump on me you seem to have forgotten to read.

That is exactly what I am saying. And it's exactly what I said a good while back, too.
 
Saw this guys profile on MDMAteam
http://justlikey0uimagined.tumblr.com

Take a look through the pics at the ounce of MDA crystal. Looks outrageous! :)

Ps yeah I don't think from the stuff I've taken its Levo MDMA, I think it's still racemic. Just a shit precursor makes shit gear, how would you go about making cocaine without coca leaves, what's happened here is essentially the same thing, no longer using anything even derived from safrass is bound to make a difference. The people who've never taken a pre drought pill don't know these new things aren't the full deal.
Indeed it does look amazing.
 
In your eagerness to jump on me you seem to have forgotten to read.

That is exactly what I am saying. And it's exactly what I said a good while back, too.

I wasn't eager to jump on anyone. Believe it or not I'm in a good mood ;)

It was the second paragraph made me think you were aluding towards the end you thought still possibly it produces a different mix of isomers. It's hard for anyone to know the answer yes or no for sure to that. I just personally think it's 100% down to the precursor never having been derived from sassafras that's changed the game, that's just my opinion though.
 
I wasn't eager to jump on anyone. Believe it or not I'm in a good mood ;)

It was the second paragraph made me think you were aluding towards the end you thought still possibly it produces a different mix of isomers. It's hard for anyone to know the answer yes or no for sure to that. I just personally think it's 100% down to the precursor never having been derived from sassafras that's changed the game, that's just my opinion though.

I am alluding to the different enantiomers making a massive difference, for whatever reason you thought I was referring to to PMK->PMKG being a myth.
They will not react the same way when forming the stereoisomers, and given MDMA is a rare drug that absolutely needs to have the isomers at the perfect ratio it stands to reason that the differential formation will provide a different effect profile.
The Dutch superpills being completely different to the main UK lab's product at similar purity levels implies that it is not a result of an unrefined end product in terms of it being "MDMA", instead that the MDMA produced by some labs differs at the molecular level - they may both be producing "MDMA" but if one lab is producing 75% of the R- configuration while the other is forming an equal R/S ratio then the pills and crystal sold by the second lab will provide the desired effect profile while the other's product will be a lethargic, non-empathetic, less euphoric experience for the end user.

You're right that the precursor changes have changed the game, but the above is exactly how they have changed the game and would account for the massive discrepancy in effects. Safrole being preferable to PMK could be explained in the same way as PMK being preferable to PMK-G:

Those who used the earliest examples of MDMA received the product formed by the gold standard for the ideal ratio, PMK producing a slightly different ratio may be the reason that people complained the pills weren't the same around the time it became the industry standard. PMK-G forming a mix that differs even further from the original and ideal ratio would explain why 225mg pills from Holland are shit compared to the 130mg Manchester presses.

Now add in that the Dutch coat their pills in a way that majorly slows absorption and thus peak plasma concentration while UK presses tend to be very easy to crumble and will disintegrate the second they hit the stomach acid and you have the exact recipe for massive discrepancy like what has been experienced by many here.
 
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I am alluding to the different enantiomers making a massive difference, for whatever reason you thought I was referring to to PMK->PMKG being a myth.
They will not react the same way when forming the stereoisomers, and given MDMA is a rare drug that absolutely needs to have the isomers at the perfect ratio it stands to reason that the differential formation will provide a different effect profile.
The Dutch superpills being completely different to the main UK lab's product at similar purity levels implies that it is not a result of an unrefined end product in terms of it being "MDMA", instead that the MDMA produced by some labs differs at the molecular level - they may both be producing "MDMA" but if one lab is producing 75% of the R- configuration while the other is forming an equal R/S ratio then the pills and crystal sold by the second lab will provide the desired effect profile while the other's product will be a lethargic, non-empathetic, less euphoric experience for the end user.

You're right that the precursor changes have changed the game, but the above is exactly how they have changed the game and would account for the massive discrepancy in effects. Safrole being preferable to PMK could be explained in the same way as PMK being preferable to PMK-G:

Those who used the earliest examples of MDMA received the product formed by the gold standard for the ideal ratio, PMK producing a slightly different ratio may be the reason that people complained the pills weren't the same around the time it became the industry standard. PMK-G forming a mix that differs even further from the original and ideal ratio would explain why 225mg pills from Holland are shit compared to the 130mg Manchester presses.

Now add in that the Dutch coat their pills in a way that majorly slows absorption and thus peak plasma concentration while UK presses tend to be very easy to crumble and will disintegrate the second they hit the stomach acid and you have the exact recipe for massive discrepancy like what has been experienced by many here.

PERFECT logic.

Backs up all annectdotal evidence.

He's agreeing with all of us and giving the science behind why.

As I original said Sometime Sept 15 how do we know MDMA is MDMA. GC/ MS is flawed now we need to find someone who can analyse with that nuclear thingy ma jig.
 
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And the North Face press is very chalky dusty like the uk presses compared to the waxy super pills from Holland Just saying
 
I agree mostly sprout but I'm not so sure have the isomers changed, and if so would that explain the duration being so short? I've never come across anyone who's had or selling different isomers of MDMA.

I've got some supposed PMK made MDMA here but I'm waiting on new marquis and my kidneys to make a full recovery so probably won't drop until summer which is no bad thing I guess :)
 
I agree mostly sprout but I'm not so sure have the isomers changed, and if so would that explain the duration being so short? I've never come across anyone who's had or selling different isomers of MDMA.

I've got some supposed PMK made MDMA here but I'm waiting on new marquis and my kidneys to make a full recovery so probably won't drop until summer which is no bad thing I guess :)

No one will sell isomeric MDMA because the separation is expensive, difficult and time-consuming along with neither enantiomer alone providing the effect profile that the racemic compound does. There is no reason to sell them separately.

Yes, the change in ratio if sufficiently large makes a massive difference when it comes to MDMA.
R-MDMA takes 14.8h to be eliminated whereas S-MDMA is gone in just 4.8h. (Pizaro et al., 2004)
The S- form has a greater affinity for the enzyme CYP2D6 which is responsible for metabolism and competitively inhibits the lower affinity R- isomer. Several other enzymes are involved to a lesser extent and offer preference to one form over the other - R-MDMA inhibits the enzyme 2B6 which is the other main metabolic enzyme. The racemic mixture inhibits both but to a lesser extent than an equal dose of just a single form leading to a half-life somewhere between the two given values.
 
Wish we could get some user reports on the north face and see if they similar to the Manchester crew or if maybe they are from there
 
Wish we could get some user reports on the north face and see if they similar to the Manchester crew or if maybe they are from there

They will be European press. Safer party rarely if ever reports on UK press. mdmateam tends to be European when you see large numbers and announcement of "new press" IMHO
 
Not a chance they're a Manc press, I can tell you that much.

But aside from anything else: when have any press from Manchester ever needed anything like the ridiculous 205mg?
 
I'm not being funny but this forum is very much a bit snobby as another member has stated, I duno it might be down to post counts and people thinking they are more knowledgable so therefore disregard your theory when you don't know them from Adam jus because their post count isn't above 1,000.

I mentioned about the north face and the colour of them and the press quality being very similar Infact identical to the Dutch lions but everyone was convinced it was the deceptions because they were the same kind of shape, news flash shape has nothing to done it even the slightest difference and the barrel and die have to be changed, but no no one took on board my theory!

Oh and for the record if you read back a few pages I actually posted up a link to a user report on the north faces from pull reports.

And while on a ranting subject as I like this thread because I do, it's taught me a lot, but it's like a fucking stuck record, if I had a £1 for every time someone has posted about "pre drought pills" "mongy Dutch pill" "2012 is when they used the pmk glyc whatever you call it" and the "oh I've got some safrole made MD from Canada" (which is bullshit, check a link about how many sketchy dids come from Canada) then I'd be nearly as rich as el chapo!!!

Oh and a few friends tested the pink red bulls this weekend, very nice they said
 
Hey bro I have your back on the north faces... Do you know of anyone who has tried them? If so what they saying compared to the other stuff out?


I'm not being funny but this forum is very much a bit snobby as another member has stated, I duno it might be down to post counts and people thinking they are more knowledgable so therefore disregard your theory when you don't know them from Adam jus because their post count isn't above 1,000.

I mentioned about the north face and the colour of them and the press quality being very similar Infact identical to the Dutch lions but everyone was convinced it was the deceptions because they were the same kind of shape, news flash shape has nothing to done it even the slightest difference and the barrel and die have to be changed, but no no one took on board my theory!

Oh and for the record if you read back a few pages I actually posted up a link to a user report on the north faces from pull reports.

And while on a ranting subject as I like this thread because I do, it's taught me a lot, but it's like a fucking stuck record, if I had a £1 for every time someone has posted about "pre drought pills" "mongy Dutch pill" "2012 is when they used the pmk glyc whatever you call it" and the "oh I've got some safrole made MD from Canada" (which is bullshit, check a link about how many sketchy dids come from Canada) then I'd be nearly as rich as el chapo!!!

Oh and a few friends tested the pink red bulls this weekend, very nice they said
 
If u read Phikal you'll realise alot of mdma in the 70s etc was made without safrole oil. Also MDA came first then made into MDMA. The r Isomer mdma was reported to be TOTAL rubbish. Anyone tried the new DODGE press (same shape as UPS)?

On another note the mastercards r for sure one of the better dutch batches.
 
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