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Tryptamines The Big & Dandy 4-HO-MET Thread - Part 3 - 4-HO-ME's for life

Ziiirp said:
A question to the veterans :

Does adding a serotonine-releaser (MDMA, 6-APDB aso) anything to the psychedelic experience ? I mean ultimately you take psychs to learn something about yourself and the world, that would require a high amount discipline to acquire soberly.

Or is this candy-flipping affiliation just a hobby, a fun thingy ? Because then it would be far to risky for me ... to sacrifice my serorotine reservoirs for a fun experience, that could be a meaningful psychedelic experience without the serotonine-releaser in place. Many assumptions here, no clue.

So what qualities is the releaser adding to the experience, that are so valuable ? Thanks for the hints.
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I'm not sure I can be considered a veteran but I'll answer to the best of my knowledge! :)


I don't do psychedelic flips very often but all the times I did it, I have had marvelous +++ (or higher) trips with the most beautiful visuals - all combining lysergamides and tryptamines with MDMA, MDA and their benzofuran replacements. In general the releaser allows me to "open my heart" and do it gently, without ripping me in pieces, which is very therapeutic for some individuals IMO, especially if followed by the according psychedelic compound and mental and/or spiritual work.

Flip trips also have a lot of useful insight - my first candy flip (MDMA+LSD) in particular made me see so much beauty in myself (I'm usually highly critical and restrictive of self) so I've realized I can and I really like to paint and draw - enjoy it ever since! ;)
The other time, hippie flip (MDMA+MDA+Mushrooms in that case) showed me how very close and how very emotional all the people are to each other and how hard it is to create the beautiful web of relationship we all want so much.

This last one with 6-APDB and 4-HO-MET, besides showing how pity all my anger outbursts and my judgemental actions are, and besides allowing me to view ideas as 3-D (looked more like 4-D8o) objects that I was able to manipulate, had a strong insight that ALL my actions are either LOVE-based or FEAR-based, and it is the only way we as conscious beings can CONTROL anything, by constantly choosing the "mode" our mind (which is IMO a specially designed self-reverberating fractal crystal) operates in, even though I would normally argue that there's boredom and laziness to me too... :D

I usually start with the serotonin releaser and wait for effects to settle, about 2 hours - this allows me to prepare a "launchpad" for the trip. I'm not a big fan of MDMA lately, but I like low dose MDA or 6-APDB because they make me feel at ease with my shadow self, do not make me manic, do not mess as much with serotonin as MDMA and 5-APB/5-APDB do and allow me to actually meditate quite effectively. IME MDA and 6-APDB (perhaps 6-APB too) increase intensity of the trip more so than MDMA and 5-APB/5-APDB.

YMMV! Be safe! ;)
 
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fuck serotonin releasing drugs. I hate empathogens, adding them to a trip would be asking for a bad trip. released serotonin feels so fake to me...
 
I like serotonin releasers, unfortunately much really. But I totally agree that releasing serotonin is nowhere near as good as a good serotonin agonist psychedelic euphoria... it's just more consistent and druggy/reinforcing. Also more depleting to you. Nothing beats a good peak experience on a tryptamine or lysergamide. One thing I love about psychedelics is that they almost go in reverse of all other kinds of drugs, you have the "hangover" first, you have to work through a strange transition and sometimes body malaise, anxiety, etc, but then once you make it past that they leave you feeling refreshed and better than before you took them, even after it wears off.
 
Well said re: the reverse hangover of psychedelics. That's always been the appeal for me: you pay the price at the beginning, work through the difficult bits to get the betterment.
 
MSK said:
fuck serotonin releasing drugs. I hate empathogens, adding them to a trip would be asking for a bad trip. released serotonin feels so fake to me...
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Couldnt agree more. Bottomline.
 
Tried ~12mg of this with some friends and went frisbee golfing today just to test it out. Had a lot of fun, just like mushrooms this one gets the giggles going for sure. I was in tears of laughter for like 2 hours of it. Next time will definitely try more like 20mg though as this was a pretty light trip.

Same way with mushrooms, I feel very out of it ~7 hours after dosing now. I'm not tripping, but even typing this out I'm not really sure what to say. Hard to explain, not a bad thing, but I feel this way immediately after mushrooms or any of 4-sub stuff.
 
Xorkoth said:
One thing I love about psychedelics is that they almost go in reverse of all other kinds of drugs, you have the "hangover" first, you have to work through a strange transition and sometimes body malaise, anxiety, etc, but then once you make it past that they leave you feeling refreshed and better than before you took them, even after it wears off.
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I like that angle. Definitely agree, probably the only drug class out there where you can get sky-high altered, and wake up refreshed and ready to change your life.
 
@volsam So you take the releasing agent two hours before the agonist? (I've obviously never mixed them)

That makes so much more sense to me now. I mean, psychedelics are usually described as "partial agonists", so having a huge wad of 5ht floating around would either compete or displace any psychedelic. And we know now that LSD almost literally climbs in and closes the door behind it, making serotonin release pointless, it would seem, at least at those receptors.

But I guess once you've blown them out, you could transition to the psychedelic state gently and not crash.
 
not saying i don't get a ton of euphoria from MDMA, but the euphoria I get from almost pissing myself laughing on some mushrooms/LSD with good friends is on a different level kinda. With MDMA its more like, a burning sensation. Tripping I get almost like a laughtergasm, like laugh to the point where I tear up and feel this great relief feeling, crazy rush.
 
If I want to combo with a psychedelic I would choose a disso 100% of the times over an empathogen. "Holeflipping" is the real deal. Adding fake euphoria to a psychedelic experience is asking for a bad trip, at least for me. Dissos erase all the body load, add a lot of insight to the psychedelic experience, and are able to bring you to some near death/hole experiences .
 
Why would you think an "empathogen" euphoria is "fake" but a "psychedelic and dissociative" euphoria is the "real deal?" I mean, I get how they could subjectively feel that way to some people, but do you think there's truth to that?

If I start to get a high on the eliptical machine, it's not as genuine as a high running from a lion knowing I'm about to be eaten?

I mean, the sense of talking to a god while on psychedelics is purely artificial too, it's just a sensation of profoundness or near-dying (Devil's advocate, I'd argue it doesn't really matter to your brain whether it's "real" or not).

(I'm asking for fun, not snarking, @MSK).
 
For me any kind of euphoria induced by a drug is seen as fake. That doesn't mean I'm right or that I've got the truth but it's just how I feel it subjectively. I even know something is not right with my way of thinking about a lot of stuff, but I can't avoid feeling things like I feel them.

The thing is psychedelics or dissos rarely give me any euphoria and if they give it, I can ignore it without any problem and keep going with whatever I'm doing or want to do. But things that release serotonin in a hardcore mode like MDMA can't be ignored, I try it, can't do it, so I get anxious the whole experience.

By the way, psychedelics or dissociatives euphoria feels so much natural to me because it doesn't feel forced like MDMA. With MDMA you'll feel an (for me) overwhelming euphoria yes or yes, while with psychedelics or dissociatives I don't get euphoria unless I had realized something profound, or found something exciting. (Of course, what is exciting or profound 99% of the times feels like this just because of the dugs and wouldn't be like that if sober)

I don't believe in all the spiritual bullshit that surrounds psychedelics either. I'm a very skeptical guy and that influences the way I feel drugs.

A shame, I know, I would love beeing able to enjoy empathogens again as I know they are a lot of fun, but I can't shake this feeling of something beeing wrong with the high that just messes up my set&setting every time.

Talking back about 4-HO-MET and combos, I love to take 25mg 4-HO-MET + 25mg 2-OxO-PCE at the same time once in a while. It produces an intense colorful hole.
 
guess everyone's different, dissociatives give me no euphoria whatsoever, if not dysphoria. Often leave me confused and uncomfortable, everything feels so straining including any sort of light or music.

a dissociative would never make me laugh, and thats where most of the euphoria i get from psychedelics comes from.
 
Hilopsilo said:
guess everyone's different, dissociatives give me no euphoria whatsoever, if not dysphoria. Often leave me confused and uncomfortable, everything feels so straining including any sort of light or music.

a dissociative would never make me laugh, and thats where most of the euphoria i get from psychedelics comes from.
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Oh, you should try a low dose of 3-meo-pcp or 3-meo-pce and you will change your mind (Or maybe not, it seems some folks don't like them at all). Hypomania carries one of the best euphorias I've ever felt in my life ;)

On the other hand, I stopped laughting with psychedelics a long time ago, when all the magic of the psychedelic experience disappeared and it became a mere routine. Nowadays I will only get some euphoria from them if I'm outdoors at a different setting than the usual trip in my room. Activating explorer mode Indiana Jones style always fullfill me with a lot of happiness, wandering the new.
 
MSK said:
Oh, you should try a low dose of 3-meo-pcp or 3-meo-pce and you will change your mind (Or maybe not, it seems some folks don't like them at all). Hypomania carries one of the best euphorias I've ever felt in my life ;)

On the other hand, I stopped laughting with psychedelics a long time ago, when all the magic of the psychedelic experience disappeared and it became a mere routine. Nowadays I will only get some euphoria from them if I'm outdoors at a different setting than the usual trip in my room. Activating explorer mode Indiana Jones style always fullfill me with a lot of happiness, wandering the new.
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I haven't had a trip in my room since the worst night of my life when I foolishly took 4grams of mushrooms when I was 15 with my parents home lol. I only ever trip on outdoor adventures/camping/music festivals

Idk, overall the dissociative headspace I don't really like that much. The other reason being it doesn't add any sort of musical appreciation, makes music sound harsh and sort of hard to hear, like I can't make out details or anything.

Psychs are this sort of colorful and majestic experience, and dissociatives to me are all bleak and cold, idk it gives me the creeps.

The best use I've had for dissociatives is watching really good movies on ketamine, now that is very fun.
 
I find low doses (not higher doses) of 3-MeO-PCP/PCE to have a definitely music enhancement, there is more overlap with psychedelics with these ones IMO.
 
Does this stuff make anyone else fucking exhausted?

I was tired after my trip on Friday, but I was straight exhausted on Saturday as well. Both my friends who tripped with me both told me how completely exhausted they felt as well, before I even said anything to either of them.

Mushrooms wear me out kind of, but I slept for 10+ hours both nights after this trip and was generally useless both days. Didn't feel bad necessarily, just yawning and zoned out.

And we had measly doses of ~10-12mg
 
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Generally tryptamines are more sedating than stimulating. If I'm tired and I take a tryptamine I know I'll yawn a lot and feel more tired while tripping.

If you are after something more stimulating take a look at phenetylamines or lysergamides :)
 
I've never noticed feeling exhausted during or after a 4-HO-MET trip. Generally I feel rejuvenated the next day with tryptamines, unless I stayed up all night or something.
 
Since I had such consistent constructive experiences with DMT lately I've decided to take 35mg of this one. My lowest previous dose was 10mg and was sort of an allergy test and went fine. This one reminded me a lot more of mushrooms than 4-aco-dmt, which was something between mushrooms and dmt. The experience I had was promising and since I've already done so much 4-ho-dmt I am diving right in. I am recovering from an H habit so I need the psychedelic therapy. It's a nice summer day and I'm going to do a traditional bicycle day type trip and get outside in the sunshine. I'm not taking this substance lightly because of what people are saying on here it was actually surprisingly mind-opening when I used it at that low dose with no distracting physical effects at all. It seemed, like this one could be really deep if explored.

I am already coming up on this in an interesting kind of way. Feels like it could end up being a pretty mild trip or something crazy strong. I was drawn to it today so... I think it should do me some good, just felt like tripping again.

edit - so I am 30 minutes into this and going to write a trip report. too much has been going on, but I am documenting my trip. It's like, I don't know. I'm on it right now. It has been extremely deep and profound but highly manageable too. I am not sure what thread this is going into but it's good stuff if you like the spiritual side of things without getting too organic about it, I guess you could say. I prefer dmt to ayahuasca, lsd to whatever that doesn't exist, 4-ho-met to mushrooms and I think that parts as deep as my career and education choices are going into what I'm writing even though it doesn't seem so profound at all it just feels natural and what is right. The way she goes. Living and breathing. I'm going to go outside and enjoy some kale in the garden and I imagine this trip will take me elsewhere than this page.
 
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