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Are meat eaters allowed to judge another persons ethics?

Yeah PETA has gone way off the deep end IMO. The idea they stand for is good... people for the ethical treatment of animals is what it stands for, and I want that, too. But somewhere along the line they got way too radical/militant/ridiculous.
 
I for sure agree with you on that. Some yahoos infiltrated a good idea and in many ways ruined it. These are people that have no real connection to reality on this planet.
 
I just wanna sit down and order a meal without people saying or thinking "this guy thinks he's better than us all". Being vegetarian I cant help but have everyone I know talk about it as a subject matter on break. If I was an omnivore or a carnivore we would not be talking about the same subject matter. We are human and we are all free to eat what we want to.
That's my spiel.
 
belligerent drunk said:
Animal meat is at least an order of magnitude less efficient than plant material per unit of mass/nutritional value etc.
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No. These types of comments display ignorance of the ketogenic diet.

https://www.ketogenic-diet-resource.com/facts-about-vitamins.html

On the keto diet your body becomes much more efficient at metabolizing food and you eat MUCH less. It is actually amazing how little food one needs to consume to operate effectively. Fat is a much more efficient fuel than glucose, it produces more ATP per the same amount and all of the organs prefer fat as fuel when offered a choice (only the brain requires roughly 150g of glucose a day and this is produced naturally via the liver in the absence of dietary carbohydrate). If anyone says we need to eat carbohydrates they have no idea what they're talking about.

swilow said:
No-one is saying that veganism or vegetarianism are perfectly moral diets. There are negatives associated with them. There is much more negatives associated with animal farming
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Maybe factory farming but pastured farming where animals coexist symbiotically with the environment? Arguably better than agriculture. And yes a lot (I'm gonna assume and say the majority) of vegans believe that their diet is "cruelty-free".

Show me a reputable study that proves this. I have read similar claims, but reacting to the environment and to various stimulii shouldn't be taken as discomfort or pain. Plants do not have the nervous system for this.
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They don't have ears but they can hear themselves being eaten. They communicate with each other, they can even warn each other when there are predators around. Why would they do this, because they desire to be eaten or not? Why completely disregard the desires of plants? IMO vegans display a conscious ignorance when it comes to plant consciousness. I find this ironic since many of them claim to be enlightened individuals.

I'm still not going to eat meat. You are not going to convince me that I am unethical, or field any argument that will change my stance. I have thought this through pretty thoroughly over the last 20 years. You clearly find this choice insulting because you feel there is implicit judgment of your own choices. For me, there literally is judgement. On that, you also won't change my mind.
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I do not care if you personally do not eat meat, apart from being concerned for your health. It actually might be better to balance the earth if there's a combination of vegans and carnivores. My issue is with false information. Veganism is not necessarily healthier, and it is not necessarily better for the environment. If someone does their research and still chooses to be a vegan, more power to them. Not sure why they would willingly choose an unhealthier diet, but look at how many people shovel their faces with processed poison.

Its really evident that you don't know what you are talking about here. It would probably be a good idea for you to do some more research before continuing.
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and agriculture for 7billion is the magic cure? You are dreaming.

As to the painless death of the factory farm- you may need to really acquaint yourself with how a lot of these animals die. Its not painless, it is terrifying and it comes at the tail end of a sterile and unnatural life. Its the life part that bothers me. Coupled with the degradation of the environment that factory farming causes (and high volume agriculture) and you have the very reasons why I think eating meat is unethical and why I'm not going to take part in it. Its unfortunate that the environment that meat eaters are destroying is my environment too.
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This is the stupid bullshit that I have a problem with. You think eating meat is unethical because you compare it to factory farming. Not every omnivore supports factory farming. Why do you ignore this, to make yourself feel better and justify your decisions? You're destroying my environment with your agriculture (that ironically results in the deaths of millions of animals, you have a lot of blood on your hands too). There are omnivores that care more about animals than you do. I know this is an impossible concept for you to internalize but it is a fact.
 
That's because people will go to almost any ridiculous extremes to defend practices they don't want to change and don't want to feel are in any way harmful. The more closed the mind the more ridiculous the claims.
 
I'm happy to switch to vegan if there was evidence it was healthier.
Even though I respect the consciousness of plants I'd prefer not to eat animals.
I've done the research and a high-fat diet is healthier than a high-carb diet.
There are downsides to eating vegetables (lectins) and fruits (fructose not ideal for the liver).
 
Yeah, I'm done discussing this shit with you. You are incredibly poorly informed on this matter and it shows.
 
JGrimez said:
I'm happy to switch to vegan if there was evidence it was healthier.
Even though I respect the consciousness of plants I'd prefer not to eat animals.
I've done the research and a high-fat diet is healthier than a high-carb diet.
There are downsides to eating vegetables (lectins) and fruits (fructose not ideal for the liver).
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I agree that a high fat diet is better that a high carb diet. (spent 20 years in the nutrition field) However the carbs that are dangerous are grains and especially refined grains and certain root vegetables like potatoes. Fruits in moderation and as many colored veggies as you can take are incredibly healthy for you. Usually in these discussions people are way more invested in defending their eating habits than thinking rationally about the subject. They are good for a laugh though.
 
Xorkoth said:
Yeah PETA has gone way off the deep end IMO. The idea they stand for is good... people for the ethical treatment of animals is what it stands for, and I want that, too. But somewhere along the line they got way too radical/militant/ridiculous.
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I know a lot of vegans and vegetarians - i would hazard a guess to say that at least half my friends (or at least, those my own age and younger) don't eat meat - and i really don't know anyone that takes PETA very seriously.
I mean - they don't speak for me or represent my belief system (despite being advocates of veganism).

I think some of their campaigns are more about challenging perspectives on animal rights for a mass, mainstream audience.
Some of the stuff they say is good, but i don't like the controversy they deliberately court, but i think they play a role in getting a certain message out there.
Most vegans I know are just chill about it, but i guess we don't feel insecure about it, because nobody feels the need to judge them for their lifestyle.
 
Cosmic Trigger said:
I agree that a high fat diet is better that a high carb diet. (spent 20 years in the nutrition field) However the carbs that are dangerous are grains and especially refined grains and certain root vegetables like potatoes. Fruits in moderation and as many colored veggies as you can take are incredibly healthy for you. Usually in these discussions people are way more invested in defending their eating habits than thinking rationally about the subject. They are good for a laugh though.
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I love eating fruits. I wish I could eat fruit and only fruit all day everyday. But I don't because I don't believe it's healthy to consume massive amounts of fructose.

We don't need to ingest any carbs (there are no essential carbohydrates).
 
spacejunk said:
Most vegans I know are just chill about it, but i guess we don't feel insecure about it, because nobody feels the need to judge them for their lifestyle.
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That's how it is in my city, too. It's extremely common and no one gives a fuck. I don't see many judgy vegans here, and likewise people who eat meat have no problem with vegans. I find the amount of heat/disdain that happens in this conversation (this conversation in general, not this particular one we're having) to be strange. I mean it's wrong but still understandable to a degree when people who don't eat meat for their own ethical reasons have a problem with people who do... again, it's not right of them to do so as you have to respect that everyone arrives at their own beliefs, but I find it particularly odd the disdain thrown to vegans/vegetarians by some meat-eaters. It's like, who fucking cares if someone chooses not to eat meat, that's on them, you can keep eating meat... I don't see the reason for the disdain.
 
Well right, so you have a reason to judge meat eaters based on a belief about what is best for the planet. So it makes sense and is even laudable because it's a good reason to consider something wrong. I don't get where the other side judging is justified is what I'm saying.
 
I also think there is a bit of good old shame based aggression at play. I've spoken to people who find my diet offensive, like I think I'm better than them. As if I'm making a statement about their choice to eat meat.

Of course, I do judge meat eaters so these folks are sorta right. But I don't think I'm better or whatever, just that I've made the right choice and they haven't.

People sometimes associate veganism with weakness/softness/femininity. Bleeding heart sort of denigration. Somehow being a vegan makes me less masculine. You know, real men only eat steak or some narrow minded shit. Australia has that toxic, repressed macho manhood culture which is laughable and damaging and values confirmity over honesty. I'm utterly pleased to be nothing like these sheep (pun intended). :\
 
swilow said:
I also think there is a bit of good old shame based aggression at play. I've spoken to people who find my diet offensive, like I think I'm better than them. As if I'm making a statement about their choice to eat meat.

Of course, I do judge meat eaters so these folks are sorta right. But I don't think I'm better or whatever, just that I've made the right choice and they haven't.

People sometimes associate veganism with weakness/softness/femininity. Bleeding heart sort of denigration. Somehow being a vegan makes me less masculine.
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This is the impression I get off from some people and friends. I have never since becoming vegetarian believed my way to be superior to others cause I believe in free will and if you are this or that I don't care, whatever makes you happy. You make the choice and choose what to do in life.
 
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It's weird, isn't it?
I'm glad i don't know any men that are so insecure about their masculinity that they need to project judgements of manliness upon others.
Of course, it's somewhat deliberate because i don't like those sorts of people...

But yeah, i put it down to insecurity, and a type of tribalism.

I suppose you could say that i'm playing that game too, by saying that i dislike people who feel the need to over-emphasise and perform a type of hyper-masculinity - but it's more that i prefer people to be themselves and take others as they are.

But yeah, stereotypes about diets and gender roles make no sense to me.

I can't imagine ever suggesting to someone "you do [whatever] because you think you're morally superior to me" (or however people have said or implied that.
Very odd - it just strikes me as really insecure.

Obviously different people approach these things in different ways - i've had people tell me that they try to be vegetarian, but find it hard, which is interesting to me because i have never ever felt any temptation to eat meat.
That doesn't make me better, or worse - or anything of the sort.
People have preferences, and we have choices - but i've never really judged people for what they eat. Lots of things are environentally harmful, or ethically questionable - but have zero interest in blame, guilt or moralisng about those things, because i don't think it achieves anything to get on your high horse. I mean, there are enough people that are hostile to environmentalism without creating more by acting self-righteous and judgemental.

If i want to share the joy of a plant based diet, i'll cook someone dinner, or take them to a great vegan restaurant.

Being a judgemental dick is for amateurs :)
 
It?s like people who dig their head in the sand when it comes to 9/11 for me.

Choosing to willfully destroy the environment for ur diet or choosing to willfully be ignorant is a sign of weakness for me
 
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