☮ Social ☮ [PD Social Tripping Thread] NEW! Gather here for swirly talk

[Solipsis]

yeah looks decent but havent really given it a proper read - but very well might

mexxy i miss u

 

[TheAppleCore]

Synchronicity indeed -- MXE has been on my mind once again lately! Through my neverending feverish quest for enlightenment, I've recently (without drugs) stumbled into a long-forgotten mysteriously mystical sorcery that I discovered on MXE years ago, and it has been absolutely fascinating to revisit.

For anyone who happens to give a poop about my pompous intellectualizations, here's the basic idea:

I called it walking the Ground of Unknowing. It was always a devilishly elusive idea, and that was because, by its very nature, it involved the abandon of language and logic. For the longest time, I didn't even have the faintest clue why I called it "walking the Ground of Unknowing" -- the phrase just bubbled up from my unconscious whenever I began to experience it. At first I wanted to say that I was completely shutting down my rational thinking and reverting to a primal, animalistic state of mind. But that wasn't true; I still had thoughts, and could understand language.

Finally I settled on the idea that it was more the abandon of rational thinking as the ultimate authority -- the top of the hierarchy. To walk the Ground of Unknowing is to realize that, although humans rely on conscious intellect, the conscious intellect itself is governed by a process which is entirely unconscious.

In other words, certainly you can think. But can you deliberately organize your thoughts? Possibly so, but can you then deliberately manage the process of deliberately managing your thoughts, ad infinitum?! It has to stop somewhere! At some point, YOUR thoughts and decisions are ultimately moved by completely unconscious forces of nature (like genetics, parenting, and environment), and you have no choice but to place your trust in those forces.


Vortech, I've bookmarked your book, and I plan on reading it when I get the chance (read: when my lazy ass feels like getting around to it).

 

[Solipsis]

You're right, but just like the idea that we might be living in an alien computer simulation it ultimately bears little relevance to us.

Furthermore, if it is all ultimately governed by physical processes and you call that unconsious then aren't you suggesting that there isn't much or any omniscient intelligence or consciousness in the Brahman-like source code that is the matrix of physical processes and laws of nature out of which we and all things manifest?

It is an interesting insight though that intelligence tends to involve recursive (nesting) processes, and they don't run upwards the same as downwards. Going "down" a level into the level is called pushing, and coming out again popping (in programming). I believe that in some states of consciousness you can pop a whole lot, and running up the recursive tree can really suspend your awareness and involve OOBE's or mystical states.
But what do you expect... isn't it obvious that if you keep popping out you can't end up at a level of control? Even regardless of anything remotely 'spiritual' it is not how intelligence works.
Actual practical control I think comes from running very specialized nested processes, but a Zen state of mind indeed arises from being able to take a moment to realize that we have overview at much higher levels. And yes there is so much more going on that you can't really focus properly on controlling a single thing as if you were a machine programmed to. In that sense, control is an illusion. In more than one sense?

 

[TheAppleCore]

You're right, but just like the idea that we might be living in an alien computer simulation it ultimately bears little relevance to us.

It's probably not terribly useful to most people, but I found that I kept getting lost in an endlessly recursive attempt to "pop" (or is it "push"?) my self-control to deeper and deeper nested levels. Basically, I would ask myself, "How do I solve X problem?" ... Then I ask myself, "What's the best methodology for solving X problem?" ... Then I ask myself, "How do I determine the best methodology for solving X problem?" ... etc. etc. etc.

The process of problem-solving became absurdly, boundlessly complex, and so I would never actually move forward in a practical way. Once it dawned on me that I couldn't go on forever, the whole recursive tree instantly fell apart, leaving me with a blissfully liberated state of mind, in which I could focus all of my attention on the initial basic question, "How do I solve X problem?"

Furthermore, if it is all ultimately governed by physical processes and you call that unconsious then aren't you suggesting that there isn't much or any omniscient intelligence or consciousness in the Brahman-like source code that is the matrix of physical processes and laws of nature out of which we and all things manifest?

Just because something is unconscious doesn't mean it's not intelligent. I definitely believe that there is a higher intelligence behind the laws of nature, but I don't think it's self-aware, like we humans are.

I believe that in some states of consciousness you can pop a whole lot, and running up the recursive tree can really suspend your awareness and involve OOBE's or mystical states. [...] a Zen state of mind indeed arises from being able to take a moment to realize that we have overview at much higher levels.

I suspect that this topic relates heavily to the Zen condition of satori. It's interesting to consider how that might work.

 

[Img_9999]

Just because something is unconscious doesn't mean it's not intelligent. I definitely believe that there is a higher intelligence behind the laws of nature, but I don't think it's self-aware, like we humans are.

How do you define intelligent then? It's hard for me to imagine intelligence outside of the boundaries of consciousness and self-awareness.

 

[TheAppleCore]

How do you define intelligent then? It's hard for me to imagine intelligence outside of the boundaries of consciousness and self-awareness.

Perhaps intelligent is the wrong word... maybe constructive, or nurturing would be better adjectives.

 

[Solipsis]

I'm reading the book GEB which involves some of this stuff, and it is also mentioned that intelligence is basically an anthropomorphized term, that we consider intelligence usually in terms of how we also consider human intelligence and not going that far off. It is also not a terribly well agreed on term as far as comprehensive definitions go.

Something like evolution certainly displays some characteristics of intelligence but I wouldn't mistake it for intelligence - so I'm happy that you correct using the term.. at the same time it is not *that* strange that people going too far in combining religion with this 'uncanny' intelligence characteristics come up with intelligent design. I guess the part that does not comply to what we consider intelligence is explained by them as the 'mysterious' ways in which He operates - a cop-out if there ever was one.

That what has survived has as a whole system many characteristics of sustainability - yes that nurturing you mention, of mother nature. And we are not outside of the system even if we are outside of the food chain and even if we analyze ourselves and that system in a way we don't see animals doing.

The way your analytic mind broke down to reveal a more observing and peaceful perspective reminds me of what koans also achieve, and also many other meditation / mantra etc like practices which - including psychedelics by the way - involve brainwashing even though that has a lot of negative connotation. You just have a clearer view if you are not so tangled up in things, and there are a few strategies to manipulate your mind to clear it up, usually by repetition or sabotage.

By the way I'm gonna try to enter the 3D printing or art & design crafting branche Have 2 potential workplaces although will have to integrate so should expect something like unpaid internship if I can actually start. One is a company, and the other one a postgrad laboratory, the latter sounds more close to a 'sure thing' where I can start in september and the other one I will first have to have a meeting with a guy from the company. Inviting him over.. He had dinner with my parents and when hearing about me empathized a lot with the type of guy I am - he also used to trip so he offered to arrange a meet, so we'll see if I am a candidate..

Beers are on me, and tomorrow the 3-MeO-PCP.. :D
You know.. here Heineken isn't even such a great beer.. sure its kind of on the expensive line of beers, but certainly not the most expensive pilsener and plenty of people who think that heineken is pretty meh, not bragging just fyi that the brand is overvalued in other countries (everything is relative) and also the popularity in the US took a dive during communist years because of the red star in the mark.. lol

 

[TheAppleCore]

Something like evolution certainly displays some characteristics of intelligence but I wouldn't mistake it for intelligence - so I'm happy that you correct using the term..

Yes, I was actually going to bring up evolution, but you did it for me. Evolution is the perfect example of a natural process which displays characteristics of intelligence. However, I don't think it stops merely at evolution. I think evolution is just a manifestation of a much larger and more fundamental principle, which underlies the very fabric of reality. I liken it to gravity -- an invisible, omnipresent law of nature which pulls everything in a certain direction. Gravity literally pulls things toward massive objects, and the phenomenon I'm referring to pulls the universe to life.

You could argue that all of the disease, war, hunger, natural disaster, etc. disproves the presence of such a "nurturing" force, but I don't think it does. The fact of the matter is, despite all of the obstacles to life on earth, it continues to flourish vibrantly. Heck, even the meteor that wiped out the majority of species on earth 65 million years ago wasn't enough to take us down.

By the way I'm gonna try to enter the 3D printing or art & design crafting branche Have 2 potential workplaces although will have to integrate so should expect something like unpaid internship if I can actually start. One is a company, and the other one a postgrad laboratory, the latter sounds more close to a 'sure thing' where I can start in september and the other one I will first have to have a meeting with a guy from the company. Inviting him over.. He had dinner with my parents and when hearing about me empathized a lot with the type of guy I am - he also used to trip so he offered to arrange a meet, so we'll see if I am a candidate..

Fantastic, keep us updated on your progress!



Edit: Ugh, speaking of natural disasters, the sky outside my house looks rather apocalyptic right now. There is a large nearby wildfire, which has filled the sky with such thick grey clouds of smoke that it's starting to look like twilight, even though it's only 3 P.M. I'm keeping an eye on the fire department's announcements, and luckily it doesn't look like our immediate area is at risk... yet...

 

[vortech]

TheAppleCore, what you call Walking the Ground of Unknowing, I call intuition. Indeed, intuition has been a primary force in my life increasingly, and I find the more I just go with this intuitive information, this flow of life force manifesting in a hyperconnected energy matrix, the more everything works in perfect synchrony, and it's almost like not even consciously thinking, more of a *feeling*, and its not a sweat because it all moves as a collective awareness sensitive to the subtle energies informing the intuition.

Anyway, you guys are being super deep right now and I appreciate it.

 

[TheAppleCore]

TheAppleCore, what you call Walking the Ground of Unknowing, I call intuition. Indeed, intuition has been a primary force in my life increasingly, and I find the more I just go with this intuitive information, this flow of life force manifesting in a hyperconnected energy matrix, the more everything works in perfect synchrony, and it's almost like not even consciously thinking, more of a *feeling*, and its not a sweat because it all moves as a collective awareness sensitive to the subtle energies informing the intuition.

Anyway, you guys are being super deep right now and I appreciate it.

Yes, I love the word "intuition" and it surfaces in my internal monologue a lot. People are afraid to stop taking conscious, rational control of their lives, because they don't trust that there's anything else to fall back on. Relying on intuition almost takes a certain bravery, but it sounds like you've discovered that once you take the leap of faith away from conscious control, something else (the hyperconnected energy matrix?) takes over.

I've been enjoying your posts here as well, Vortech. The way you think reminds me of how I think -- always looking for patterns, synchronicity, and evidence that there's something beyond just molecules crashing around in a chaotic universe.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

Yes, I love the word "intuition" and it surfaces in my internal monologue a lot. People are afraid to stop taking conscious, rational control of their lives, because they don't trust that there's anything else to fall back on.

But seriously. People are terrified of 'losing control'. I don't really get it.

 

[TheAppleCore]

But seriously. People are terrified of 'losing control'. I don't really get it.

I think it's for a lack of spirituality, more or less. If you feel like your wits alone are the only hope for defending you from a world that is fundamentally indifferent to your livelihood, you're going to hang on to them very tightly. But yeah, my mom is even afraid of taking sleeping meds, because she doesn't like to feel forced to sleep.

 

[perpetualdawn]

But seriously. People are terrified of 'losing control'. I don't really get it.

I totally get it, I'm terrified of loosing control. What I love about psychedelics is that they're so *in control* (at least to me, and this is contrary to the public impression of them). I tend to avoid dissociatives because it freaks me out loose control of my body. Same thing with benzos and such, totally creep me out.

 

[kidklmx]

I totally get it, I'm terrified of loosing control. What I love about psychedelics is that they're so *in control* (at least to me, and this is contrary to the public impression of them). I tend to avoid dissociatives because it freaks me out loose control of my body. Same thing with benzos and such, totally creep me out.

Yeah I wouldn't operate heavy machinery on a psychedelic, but I totally see what you mean. With psychedelics you just become hyper-aware of everything, yet you are still you. With cocaine or booze or something, your entire personality changes

 

[psy997]

I'm loving the conversation going on Walking the Ground of Unknowing feels so right to me, that's totally it.

Vortech, I finally got around to downloading your book and will be reading as much as I can today seeing as my flights have been delayed and my travel time increased by at least four hours.

 

[TheAppleCore]

^ Psy997, I tried to send you a PM, but your inbox is full.

 

[Hexagon Sun]

I’d like to wake up somewhere in Alpha Centauri wondering if there’s life on other planets

 

[vortech]

Oh boi do I have a nice swirled-up story for you guys. It all started with Sunshine literally materializing into crystallized form and landing on the floor of my screen porch. My only explanation is magical faerie consciousness that managed to cross the inter-dimensional rift between the material and spirit worlds.
LOL....OK, so what really happened is basically that, but without the magical thinking, I came home early this afternoon after going out for a cup of coffee and picking up a couple of my best friends. We went to my back porch to have a smoke and I saw on the ground a little bag with sun symbols on it. Inside was one small blotter (ended up being LSD) and about 100 milligrams of what ended up being super-potent moonrock MDMA, maybe the most potent I've ever experienced. One of my friends had never tripped OR rolled before, so I immediately offered them to her after tasting the crystal and immediately knowing it was MDMA (technically, it could have been another similar drug such as MDA or methylone but my intuition is saying it was MDMA). So my two friends ended up splitting the MDMA (i probably only had 10mg to taste it, but the contact high which I am very sensitive to made me feel like I was candy-flipping as I cuddle-puddled with them). The newbie, she is currently having a great time, and my other friend is also significantly rolling. They just had sex and are now smoking a post-coital cigarette while I write this. Listening to some good music, mix-sets from 2016 Luminosity gathering. I have a nice gentle slightly-psychedelic buzz resonating within me. Best way to do a nice summer Sun Day.

To be real, I can make one or two guesses as to who actually dropped this gift on my screen porch, but I prefer to let it remain in The Mystery. Universe, you da real MVP.

 

[psy997]

Sounds like pure bliss Vortech

 

[vortech]

To conclude for now, more cuddles were puddled, for some amount of an eternal moment, one of those extended moments, it must have been at least an hour because we listened to this whole mixset by Apriori, an ace set by the way for cuddle vibes. I read out loud excerpts from a free book I received at the Democratic National Convention, called World 5.0, and holy Hell & Heaven, this guy has got the message, and he has transcribed it! The message of course, is LOVE. I met the author who was handing out copies and he signed it for me. I wish I had read some of the book when I met him because I seriously want to give him a hug right now.
We also cooked some chicken and vegetables and rice while we danced like birds, and then we thanked the Universe for gifts received and ate the succulent umami-drenched bird and veggies.
I also started working on a remix yesterday of a song from 1965 called 'Sunshine, Lollipops and Rainbows'. how appropriate that we candy-flipped today on crystal sunshine. I uploaded a 1st draft of the song for friends who wanted to peek at where it is going (still needs a lot of tweaking but it should put a smile on your face!) Here is a link