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is attempting moderation foolish?

hydroazuanacaine

bluelighter
Joined
May 17, 2007
Messages
8,498
hi, people. has anyone attempted extreme moderation after abstinence? how did it go?

i feel like some of sobriety is built upon fear. like i hang onto to my "one year and X months" as part of my identity. it feels a bit like a charade, but i acknowledge that could be addiction talking. sometimes people break out a beer that they brewed themselves or some rare wine/liquor, and when i turn down a glass i'm not really sure what i'm doing. on an occasion, i am 100 percent certain i could drink a single glass of wine and not have another that night. when at a boat party or other drinking-based event, i'm sure i could have 2 - 3 beers and not drink 'til drunk. but does it spiral out of control again, like over the years? i'm not 100 percent sure what happens long term if i break my zero-drinking policy.

and with benzos, i don't know if i'm torturing myself out of fear. i feel like i can't breath (in a figurative sense). like a rag or rubber band that has been twisted way past the breaking point. before i switched to daily on doctors' recommendations, benzos were so helpful. what happens if i take 10 - 20mgs of valium once every few months? even if i just take it once to see? i sure do wonder.
 
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For me, any use is relapse. Its really up to the individual. I cannot use drugs successfully, I tried to moderate for over a decade and I cannot. There is not "just once" for me and I sure as hell do not want to go back to using.
 
i appreciate the reply, phactor. i'm really curious if it's that's also case for me, but it does not seem like there's any safe way to find out.


could you change the title to "is attempting moderation foolish?" for me? i changed it through "edit," but it's not taking. thanks.
 
I used to trick myself into thinking I could use moderately but I could never pull it off. Eventually I get to where if there's alcohol there, I find a reason to drink it all. Same with drugs, before long my tolerance is back up there and it's just too hard for me to do moderately.
 
hi, people. has anyone attempted extreme moderation after abstinence? how did it go?

i feel like some of sobriety is built upon fear. like i hang onto to my "one year and X months" as part of my identity. it feels a bit like a charade, but i acknowledge that could be addiction talking. sometimes people break out a beer that they brewed themselves or some rare wine/liquor, and when i turn down a glass i'm not really sure what i'm doing. on an occasion, i am 100 percent certain i could drink a single glass of wine and not have another that night. when at a boat party or other drinking-based event, i'm sure i could have 2 - 3 beers and not drink 'til drunk. but does it spiral out of control again, like over the years? i'm not 100 percent sure what happens long term if i break my zero-drinking policy.

and with benzos, i don't know if i'm torturing myself out of fear. i feel like i can't breath (in a figurative sense). like a rag or rubber band that has been twisted way past the breaking point. before i switched to daily on doctors' recommendations, benzos were so helpful. what happens if i take 10 - 20mgs of valium once every few months? even if i just take it once to see? i sure do wonder.

If you were that kind of person, you would have not descended into addiction in the first place.

I have to remind myself of this. Specifically, I cannot use heroin/buprenorphine "just once". If I have a stash of it, I cannot prevent myself from using it again and again until I'm addicted and then later on, until it's gone.

I can use other drugs and not have this happen to me; but I've chosen to forego all illegal drugs and injecting drugs whatsoever. :) I'm much happier as a result.
 
I wondered the same things as well. Weed is safe ime.
 
I quit drinking, went back to it; found i could drink moderately - but ultimately decided i didnt like it enough to keep forcing myself through the ritual of social drinking, so i stopped again. It's a couple of months short of 6 years since i had a drink.

Having said that, booze was never a serious vice for me; opiates really sucked me in, but i have gotten past the point of craving those too (after ~2 years since i 'quit').
I think it has a lot to do with the individual, and the circumstances that led them down the path of addiction. For some people it is much harder than others.
Identifying which category you fall under might not be worth the risk - but personally i see a distinction between a "lapse" and a "relapse". Of course, the former may well lead to the latter - but i don't think there are any hard-and-fast rules, besides those we make for ourselves.
I dont subscribe to the "once an addict, always an addict" doctrine, because i think it is disempowering and flawed thinking - but it may have some truth for some individuals more than others.
 
I dont subscribe to the "once an addict, always an addict" doctrine, because i think it is disempowering and flawed thinking - but it may have some truth for some individuals more than others.

Well evidence shows us otherwise, one can observe actual changes in the brain of addicts. Then you get into the genetic component and all of that. Of course, this stuff is all compounded by life experience. You are correct in that its impact seems to vary in individuals.

It is also likely that some people are being put into treatment that do not actually meet that medical model of an addict. There is a large portion of the addiction population where it appears that moderation is simply not possible. As for "flawed thinking" or "disempowering" that is all viewpoint. Once I acknowledged I was an addict and could not control my drug use then I became willing to do something about it and I became much more powerful. I have accomplished a lot since getting clean.

I am actually a very strong willed person and can endure lots and lots of pain, but that is totally separate from my addiction. I wanted to stop for a long time but could not.

I was able to stop using for months at a time, even had a few years in there but I would inevitably go back. That is the trickiest part for many, they have the ability to stop for a little while so they feel in control. I would often focus on the 2 months I didn't used, compared to the 10 I did use and tell myself "see I can moderate if I really want to and if things get bad I will".

Not trying to argue, just offering a different perspective.

As for "testing", really the only way to do so is to try. This method of testing is referenced in both AA and NA's book. For most, it doesn't work (lets face it, if you are in the position where you are reading either the Big Book or Basic Text then you likely have something going on.)

Is attempting moderation foolish? Tough question. For myself it was the only way that I could finally convince myself I could not moderate. Problem is I could have faced serious consequences during this testing.
 
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It's not only foolish, it can be very dangerous for some people, or playing with fire. But at the end of the day we all make our own personal decisions. Good luck, and stay safe.
 
I agree. By trying to achieve moderation you can get hurt in the process. Over and over again.
 
I can moderate some drugs. Other drugs I can't. The only way to find out is to try.
 
I agree with crimsonjunk. From all I have learned through my experience with drugs, I'd think it foolish not to use drugs. However, the drugs I cant moderate, or the ones that give me the compulsive, manic desire for more I have to learn to suffer to ignore or entirely keep distance.
 
Sometimes using something again reminds me why i went through the struggle of quitting in the first place.
I think it depends on an awful lot of variables though.
 
Agreed. But I have tried certain things, "just to make sure I can handle it," and ended up on week long (or more) binges, wishing I would have admitted to myself my own weakness... It absolutely sucks feeling stuck or helpless to the overpowering motivation to ingest a certain chemical.
 
Moderation itself cannot possibly be foolish in itself, as verbs, like 'abstain', are only foolish if and only if their motivations are foolish.

Is abstinence or moderation foolish for a Jain or Hindu or Buddhist or Christian monk or recovering addict or somebody with some other philosophical precepts? No, in my opinion at least.

Is abstinence or moderation foolish for a somebody who thinks drug use is bad 'cause other people say so or because they want to blame all their life's troubles on hedonism and self-abandoned substance abuse? Yes, in my opinion at least.
 
I was actually thinking about this thread last night. If you would have asked me this question up until maybe 2-3 years ago, I would have said that moderation is possible for me. But that is because for a long time I literally could not imagine my life without "at least drinking and smoking". I could not create an image in my mind of myself going through life without something. Basically I was hellbent on "figuring it out" (how to use). It was my obsession, maybe even more so then the drugs themselves. To suggest that not only could I not use, but that I would enjoy it and my life would be far better was just not possible until I really accepted some core truths about myself.

My mind state also came into play, when using I hate myself, feel unworthy of happiness and subconsciously use to punish myself. Lots of this has to do with my childhood, but the way I use also causes me to do neurological damage to myself.

So grateful I do not have to live like that anymore.

Agreed. But I have tried certain things, "just to make sure I can handle it," and ended up on week long (or more) binges, wishing I would have admitted to myself my own weakness... It absolutely sucks feeling stuck or helpless to the overpowering motivation to ingest a certain chemical.


Been there myself brother (or sister), the last one ended up sending me back out to using for 2 years and almost totally destroyed me. Eventually, I just realized that those binges were my norm. That is how I am when I use, there is no "one" for me. This can also come out in certain behaviors as well (sex, relationships, video games, working out etc etc). I really have to watch it.
 
Basically I was hellbent on "figuring it out" (how to use). It was my obsession, maybe even more so then the drugs themselves. To suggest that not only could I not use, but that I would enjoy it and my life would be far better was just not possible until I really accepted some core truths about myself.

My mind state also came into play, when using I hate myself, feel unworthy of happiness and subconsciously use to punish myself. Lots of this has to do with my childhood, but the way I use also causes me to do neurological damage to myself.

If you ever have the desire, and feel comfortable enough to do so, I think a lot of people (me) could benefit from an elaboration. It sounds like you untangled some serious insights.

Regardless, good stuff. Good thread.
 
It's good to set a bar for yourself maybe but I think use in moderation and having control of your drug use among other aspects of life is a good thing. I don't think you should consider any use as relapse. I've had massive problems with cocaine in the past amounting to thousands of debt. Now I don't get involved at that end but I do still use it, I wouldn't say I'm a master of self control with it, far from it. But I understand it much better and treat it with more respect that it deserves. I use less other drugs now too because of this.

With alcohol it is a tough one, I keep saying I want to cut down my drinking. But I love a cold beer. Same with the coke, I'd like to take less but I love a nice line of clean powerful stuff. To me the two combined are one of the pinacles of drug experiences. Obviously there are psychedelics like DMT that are another thing all together which I respect too. But they're not for the regular. Overall though I think I'd like to learn to continue life as a drug user but learn to control the habit so it is kept to being enjoyable and not an addiction. I notice since I started Seroquel my drinking seems to have been less, more often, but less overall.
 
99.9999999% cant do the moderation thing after addiction.
Is it worth the gamble? I dont think so
 
I don't really believe in the twelver's philosophy of one is too much. From time to time, I get an insufferable itch to scratch my opiate receptors, and from a rarer time to time, I indulge that. Usually I wind up OK. I think it's a matter of self-control. That being said, I'm a degenerate alcoholic at this point and can't really control myself once I scratch that itch, so I guess it all depends on your individual situation. I think in our hearts we know whether or not we can take whatever situation to the edge, it's just the addicted lizard-brain that tries to tell us otherwise. Reflect, and then do what you will, I guess. For most, though, who'd consider themselves in recovery, you've come a long way out of a sticky swamp, why risk it?
 
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