• H&R Moderators: VerbalTruist | cdin | Lil'LinaptkSix

is attempting moderation foolish?

I feel I'm in a place of moderation right now. I'm recovering alcoholic and opiate addict yet I take pain Meds for chronic pain and kolonopin for anxiety. No problem with the kolonopin but I have struggled at times with the opiates. I tried to get off them in Feb and lasted 5 days. My pain was unbearable. Luckily my pain dr took me back but I need the medicine I just need to control myself. I was in AA until I got dirty looks cause I was on Meds and not really sober. They took my colon out last year and my obsession to drink went out the door. No desire. Really makes things easier. I just gotta remind myself every morning I'm an addict and alcoholic and I can't use and my day is usually ok. With friends like toothpastedog how can you go wrong?

I have to do the same thing. Moderation for me does not work. I know I can use once or twice without being gripped by the inescapable desire to use, but I know that it is coming down the road if I persist. In fact I wakeup and think: "I am choosing not to get high"
The obsession is very real.
 
I just am so fucking tired of all the bullshit. I have a hard time expressing how I feel otherwise. I'd rather sit in a field and do jack shit and just walk around, talk with people, lay in the grass, do something productive, than have to continue with any more rollercoasters, physiological, psychological or emotional.

That was I think the one ultimate benefit of ORT for me. Learning how much I appreciate stability and a semblance of "normal" health. I guess I'm less curious than I was ten years ago. Well, yes and no. Certainly a bit less silly, although I am laughing more at circumstance rather than trying to hustle. Makes sense :)
 
The only drug I can't moderate much at all is meth. I'll binge on it until it's gone, even with the knowledge beforehand that I'll end up a sweaty, walleyed lunatic on day 3 :)

It's a blessing in disguise though because when I'd use it I would go hard, crash hard, and then swear it off for a long period of time afterward and not have much of a desire to use again

I was able to moderate heroin pretty well, actually, but even moderated heroin use was a problem for me...it resulted in long-term emotional problems, depression & stress/anxiety, plus the risks associated with the illegality of the drug (purity variations of unregulated street narcotics, having to avoid unwanted attention from law enforcement, not being able to talk about my problem with others because of the stigma associated with being a heroin user, etc)
 
I only moderated my opiate use because I knew I had to work and if I got high one day, I couldn't stay well for the weak...For me it wasn't moderation, it was fear. I really wanted to catch a nod, but it would be too expensive. I am glad I don't have to worry about that anymore.
 
hi, people. has anyone attempted extreme moderation after abstinence? how did it go?

i feel like some of sobriety is built upon fear. like i hang onto to my "one year and X months" as part of my identity. it feels a bit like a charade, but i acknowledge that could be addiction talking. sometimes people break out a beer that they brewed themselves or some rare wine/liquor, and when i turn down a glass i'm not really sure what i'm doing. on an occasion, i am 100 percent certain i could drink a single glass of wine and not have another that night. when at a boat party or other drinking-based event, i'm sure i could have 2 - 3 beers and not drink 'til drunk. but does it spiral out of control again, like over the years? i'm not 100 percent sure what happens long term if i break my zero-drinking policy.

and with benzos, i don't know if i'm torturing myself out of fear. i feel like i can't breath (in a figurative sense). like a rag or rubber band that has been twisted way past the breaking point. before i switched to daily on doctors' recommendations, benzos were so helpful. what happens if i take 10 - 20mgs of valium once every few months? even if i just take it once to see? i sure do wonder.


I too wondered about this one. It was late August of last year and while I had been clean of opiates for 2 years & 8 months, I had kicked methadone 8 months prior.

So curious did I become, that I eventually acted upon it and sought out one of my old contacts. This would prove to be an awful lapse in prudence, for here I am - not at all too far flung away from the approach of a year since - cold turkeying after an 11 month relapse on Heroin.

It could be argued that it depends upon the substance; if yours was a poly-drug addiction and also if it is the same substance you were addicted to before or not. Captain.Heroin makes a very good point by suggesting that were you capable of this then you most likely would not have become addicted to begin with.

I do believe this relapse to have taught me a priceless and likely inevitable lesson to be learned as part of my recovery towards a somewhat more permanent span of sobriety, and considering the sheer volume of shit this has frightened out of me I do so very much doubt this will happen again after I have completed this awful kick.

I now finally understand what is meant by "Relapse is part of recovery" - the notion of which I always found ridculous prior to this experience.
 
Last edited:
Relapse is to be expected with any chronic illness, not judged or moralized. I am really proud of you endless nameless, for your accomplishments and what you have learned from your experience, your successes and failures.

Taking alcohol and drug studies classes (the stuff you have to do to become a licensed drug counselor in my state), I now really understand how "addiction" is far, far from a one size fits all picture. I really like how the DSM 5 approaches this with a spectrum (though it is an inherently flawed system, at least it will be until drug users are treated AND looked upon as human beings as opposed to criminals) - to be called an addict only means so much: addiction represents a range of conditions, behaviors, etc.

There are the worst addictions, the ones that kill you, and they are not limited to any one drugs - alcohol, sugar, nicotine, heroin, cocaine, even concentrated cannabis and such can contribute to a very unhealthy lifestyle and socialization that will end up have a negative impact on your life in all ways - the whole jails, institutions and death thing.

But there are lots of other addicts too. The ones that don't die. Who have experience death briefly, but seemed to have survived. The ones who escape society's jails, institution and death - the alienation of addiction can kill just as well as an overdose or bad batch.

What I'm ultimately saying is that we might be addicts, but we are humans first. We are community members, and whether we like it or not we are also brothers, sisters, uncles, aunts, fathers, mothers, grandmother and grandfathers. We work with each other, we don't just pray on one another. And I have always seen people in all communities, even the worst of conditions (think skid rows and prisons).

What kills more than anything is, in the worlds of DJ Shadow, is so much more the social narcotic than any literal one. The ignorance and alienation produced by draconian, inhumane policies of money hungry greedy, selfish ignorance is what I'm speaking of. Ignorant bliss is the social narcotic. Control, in the words of W.S. Burroughs.

My worldview see the inherent goodness in people, a dignity than can never be completely be removed, even by themselves, even in death, as the focal point. How you see things may be different. But what do you do about ignorance? What do you do about alienation? There are no simple answers.

Just like when we become dependent and develop problematic histories of drug misuse, addicted some would say, we can only do the best we can, but only if one tries.
 
I can't seem to moderate my drinking, even when I convince myself it's totally possible. It's none or all for me, and I'd rather none. Alcohol withdrawals are a real trial.

I thought something really interesting in your (OP) post, which was the "identity" thing. For a long time I was on the "right" path, and everything needed to confirm that, or it would throw everything into question. I was the now "recovering" guy, and I needed it confirmed all the time that this was the "right" way. It was, at that point, pretty much my entire identity.

As an example, when I saw my Father who had quit drinking, having a glass of wine (he was more of a casual drinker who had some small problems, than an alcoholic) it kind of messed me up, because I thought this only worked in one very black and white way. As many have alluded to, there's quite a bit of nuance.

So now I just don't drink, and it's no more a big deal than the fact that I don't like sunflower seeds, it's just a detail. But that took years.

I'm inclined to say moderation probably doesn't turn out well, in the case of chronic, serious addicts. But that's just my experience and what I've seen around me, very anecdotal in other words.

Like yesterday I had a thought "What if I just got a six pack?" But all the hassle and trouble that's gone with it so many times before? My next thought is "Ahh fuck it, I'm better off doing something, almost anything else" And there's the crux. If I were the kind of guy who could just get a six pack and have a few, I probably wouldn't even be on this forum, much less in this thread.
 
First off: Both TPD and Bobby great posts.

@TPD: Like the DJ shadow drop. Preemptive strike was one of the first vinyls I really wore out listening to. You are right about some addictions being deemed bad and some good. There are also so many people that don't experience any of the pitfalls that society (not the drug) places on use. Think about people that are addicted to being in a relationship. They thrive off the drama associated with serially dating people. How is this person better than me, the opiate/benzo addict? Is it because someone else deemed it that way?

@Bobby: You are right about different degrees. What truly matters is what works for you. I spent a lot of time wondering why my brother could use with me, and then just stop and go on about his life, whereas months later I would be sick and penniless? I realized that he was addicted to the high, but could easily push it to the back of his mind, where I would be consumed by it.
 
Looking at addiction largely as relations was a huge, huge step in my personal development, not just intellectually but in my drug misuse, use and lack thereof. It makes becoming an actor in one's own life so much more possible when you begin to develop a feeling for how you relate, not just to the drug but to one's use. By use I also mean the absence of use - how we as individual drug taking actors and others in our lives attempting to affect how we use and keep from using drugs.

Just like their are healthier and unhealthier ways to use drugs, there are healthier and unhealthier ways of how drug use is preempted.

I'm not a big Burroughs fan by the way. Dude was a fucking asshole in so many ways, but he was quite the man, quite a treasure, in many others.
 
DJ Shadow rocks!!! What's been said here is a bit over my head. All I know is some of us humans have a chip in our heads that makes us fiend for substances at no expense. For us we cannot use those substances at any cost. No little bit here or there. Never. Pretty simple.
 
The only thing I can moderate is my benzo usage. I medically need them to help with my diagnosis'. I don't especially like taking them because I feel like I have lost one of the key abilities that made me an amazing chef....the ability to comprehend everything that is happening in the kitchen and on the floor of the restaurant all at once.

I most definitely cannot moderate any other drugs. If I drink, I drink to get smashed, if I smoke pot, I smoke everyday. If I use opiates I am right back to the needle....

I think if you use an addictive substance for any length of time you will always have that itch to use in an addictive manner. It may start that you use once and are sitting there congratulating yourself for not immediately following it up with use, but it all leads to the same place for those that are like me.
I'm an alcoholic and I take benzo's as prescribed as well as mood stabilizers and antidepressants and Adderal for my ADD. I don't feel a "high" from benzos, usually just a calm feeling if I even feel anything. They work without it being visible.
I can feel my Adderal work and I enjoy that brief euphoric rush but I know taking more isn't going to give me that same feeling, it'll just make me jittery.
 
I take the same Meds Mmp85. I can't even tell I take my Adderall but this morning I got up and took my Meds and fell back to sleep and woke up and couldn't remember taking my Adderall so I took another dose. Big mistake. I've been jittery and naucous all day. I couldn't even take a nap. Can't eat. I don't see why anyone would want to abuse this shit. I'm not taking any tomorrow. Screw the focus, lol. I'm on a lot of Meds after 20 yrs of alcoholism. I have to watch my pain Meds or that can get out of hand but no problems. I think it's when someone tries to moderate something they've been addicted to. That's just asking for trouble. That's like me having a few beers or something. Might work for awhile but ultimately ityll get me.
 
so maybe, if a Rx reads 1 every 6 hours, my mind sees 6 every 1 hour... maybe I'm not going to be the best at dosing myself. :\
 
The only thing that is insanely foolish to not moderate is listening to ICP...any amount is too much.
 
I'm trying to moderate my processed sugar intake. It isn't like I have any issues with sugar, but it is amazing how difficult it can be to avoid. I did break down and have some tasty black tea with a little bit of sugar today, which was soooooo good, but yea.

And fuck ICP ;)
 
I take the same Meds Mmp85. I can't even tell I take my Adderall but this morning I got up and took my Meds and fell back to sleep and woke up and couldn't remember taking my Adderall so I took another dose. Big mistake. I've been jittery and naucous all day. I couldn't even take a nap. Can't eat. I don't see why anyone would want to abuse this shit. I'm not taking any tomorrow. Screw the focus, lol. I'm on a lot of Meds after 20 yrs of alcoholism. I have to watch my pain Meds or that can get out of hand but no problems. I think it's when someone tries to moderate something they've been addicted to. That's just asking for trouble. That's like me having a few beers or something. Might work for awhile but ultimately ityll get me.

I abused amphetamines for a good bit. Adderall/Dex originally, then I moved on to crystal meth (the upper equivalent of going from hydrocodone to heroin, LOL). Only certain people are into hardcore upper use...tweakers are a special breed indeed ;)

I'm trying to moderate my processed sugar intake. It isn't like I have any issues with sugar, but it is amazing how difficult it can be to avoid. I did break down and have some tasty black tea with a little bit of sugar today, which was soooooo good, but yea.

And fuck ICP ;)

I read the nutritional labels on every single thing I consume. It's amazing that some people don't, or don't know the significance of different kinds of fat, or different kinds of carbohydrates etc. Too much sugar (or even "simple carbs", generally-speaking) is just not a good thing, even for those without blood glucose issues. It really saps your energy ultimately
 
Top